A NEW alignment question!

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

A NEW alignment question! - 07/08/13 07:50 PM

At least I think its new: More and more alignment equipment is using degrees and minutes for specing toe during an alignment. Thats good because the angle doesnt change with the diameter of the wheel / tire. BUT...determining the desired angle doesnt see to be so simple.

Does anybody know what 1/16" - 1/8" equates to for a 26 inch tire on a 15 inch rim?

So far I THINK 14 minutes or about 0.25 of a degree equates to 1/16"

Anybody gone down this road?

Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: A NEW alignment question! - 07/09/13 02:08 AM

Nobody has dealt with toe being expressed as degrees instead of inches?

Posted By: JohnH

Re: A NEW alignment question! - 07/09/13 03:05 AM

A good toe in will be about 1/4" toe in.. The reason for the toe in is that centrifugal force will put it at zero when you are going down the road.. Don't know about the degrees..

Posted By: Todd

Re: A NEW alignment question! - 07/09/13 03:24 AM

I've always used degrees instead of inches when I do alignments. I guess its what I got used to years ago. But anyway, every 1/32 of an inch of toe is 0.12 degrees or 7 minutes. Should get you close.

Edit..I just looked it up on my machine at work and 1/16 =.13�

Posted By: Wicked49670dart

Re: A NEW alignment question! - 07/09/13 05:02 AM

I do all of my alignments in degree's also, pretty sure 1/16 is .06, I'll check tomorrow at work....Matt

Posted By: a12superbee

Re: A NEW alignment question! - 07/09/13 08:40 AM

Could someone explain what you mean by 'minutes'? Please.

Posted By: Todd

Re: A NEW alignment question! - 07/09/13 01:12 PM

For every degree there are 10 minutes. So .5 minutes is 1/2 degree

Posted By: SportF

Re: A NEW alignment question! - 07/09/13 01:58 PM

Actually for every degree there is 60 minutes, for every minute there is 60 seconds. And the tire diameter affects the toe in when measured at the tread. A 1/4 inch toe on a 20" tire would be far greater degrees than a 1/4 inch toe on a 28 inch tire. Which is why degrees is a better way to measure toe, its consistant no matter the tire size.

Posted By: Todd

Re: A NEW alignment question! - 07/09/13 02:08 PM

Quote:

For every degree there are 10 minutes. So .5 minutes is 1/2 degree

DUH...Your right I was thinking of tenths...Not enough coffee.

Posted By: SportF

Re: A NEW alignment question! - 07/09/13 03:07 PM

Well, when I read your post I had to think about it, even though I used to work with minutes and seconds everyday. So, I had another cup of starting fluid myself before I was sure. Whatever, it is obvious you know what you are talking about.

Posted By: Cab_Burge

Re: A NEW alignment question! - 07/09/13 08:03 PM

I like to use 1/16 inch Toe In on all my Hi Po older cars with stock front ends

I have the alignment shop set that with the front of the car raised up one inch above the sitting hieghts on the rack to simulate actual driving conditions under normal power

Radial tires don't need as much toe in as the original OEM bias ply tires did back in the day

Posted By: steve70

Re: A NEW alignment question! - 07/09/13 09:57 PM

I just drew it out on MasterCam and you're very close, .25 degree comes out to .0568 inches or just a nick under 1/16

Posted By: Yancy Derringer

Re: A NEW alignment question! - 07/13/13 05:11 AM

I've never understood why toe was not ALWAYS in degrees. The size of the front tires, indeed, whether you are the proper height inline with the spindle center will change toe ANGLE even though the inch measurement is "the same."

Posted By: a12superbee

Re: A NEW alignment question! - 07/13/13 07:12 AM

I almost missed this thread, thanks for the explanation of minutes.
I've never heard of minutes and seconds used for any measurement other than time. Tick. Tock.

Posted By: Yancy Derringer

Re: A NEW alignment question! - 07/16/13 07:12 AM

Quote:

I almost missed this thread, thanks for the explanation of minutes.
I've never heard of minutes and seconds used for any measurement other than time. Tick. Tock.

I'll bet you have, just didn't realize.

Used in Navigation, depending on the "format" of the figures

Used in expression of bullet path (I'm sure you've heard the term "minute of angle" re: shooting)

Here's about KREM channel 2 tower location in Spokane:

47� 35′ 40.9″ N, 117� 17′ 56.8″ W

The first is degrees of elevation from the equator, which is zero degrees, 90 being the N pole, so the tower (near Spokane) is 47 degrees, 35 MINUTES, and 40.9 seconds toward the N from the equator.

The second half, is east - west, so 117 degrees 17 MINUTES and 56.8 seconds west of the 0 degree longitude point on earth which is called the Greenwich meridian. This is an arbitrary point on earth that is designated as being the zero degree point, and dates back to the early days of navigation, Europe being the "important" area at the time.

Google longitude, latitude, "prime meridian," "Greenwich Meridian" and have a day.

Posted By: Jeremiah

Re: A NEW alignment question! - 07/16/13 07:32 AM

Quote:

A good toe in will be about 1/4" toe in.. The reason for the toe in is that centrifugal force will put it at zero when you are going down the road.. Don't know about the degrees..

1/4" toe will KILL a set of tires. 1/8" MAX toe in.

Posted By: srt

Re: A NEW alignment question! - 07/16/13 03:33 PM

for an easy conversion to decimal degrees
divide minutes by 60 and add to degrees 2*45' = 45/60 =.75 + 2 = 2.75*

To change decimal degrees to d*min' multiply the decimal portion by 60 and result is minutes then write the degrees.

2.5* = 0.5* x 60 = 30' + 2* = 2*30'

By converting to decimal degrees and back converting back to minutes it makes it easier to determine how much angle needs to be adjusted.

For examples above
2.5* - 2.75* = (-)0.25*, then multiply 0.25* x 60 (to convert to minutes) or (-)15'.
One can also include seconds if needed, or desired, but this takes additional steps that I could explain if anyone needs to know pm me.

Posted By: TC@HP2

Re: A NEW alignment question! - 07/16/13 03:39 PM

Quote:

I've never understood why toe was not ALWAYS in degrees.

Cuz when your pitted out in the south forty where the track lights don't shine, you wacked the lead car in the last heat race, and bent a tie rod and you need to get it replaced and buttoned back up before the main, and you've got a flashlight and your working in the dirt, you whip out the tape measure and jack stands and get to it.

Posted By: Yancy Derringer

Re: A NEW alignment question! - 07/18/13 05:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:

I've never understood why toe was not ALWAYS in degrees.

Cuz when your pitted out in the south forty where the track lights don't shine,

I can assure that when Ma "wrote the books," there was no thought of you being in that condition

Posted By: Twostick

Re: A NEW alignment question! - 07/18/13 03:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:

A good toe in will be about 1/4" toe in.. The reason for the toe in is that centrifugal force will put it at zero when you are going down the road.. Don't know about the degrees..

1/4" toe will KILL a set of tires. 1/8" MAX toe in.

He's in tire sales...

Kevin

Posted By: Twostick

Re: A NEW alignment question! - 07/18/13 03:41 PM

Quote:

for an easy conversion to decimal degrees
divide minutes by 60 and add to degrees 2*45' = 45/60 =.75 + 2 = 2.75*

To change decimal degrees to d*min' multiply the decimal portion by 60 and result is minutes then write the degrees.

2.5* = 0.5* x 60 = 30' + 2* = 2*30'

By converting to decimal degrees and back converting back to minutes it makes it easier to determine how much angle needs to be adjusted.

For examples above
2.5* - 2.75* = (-)0.25*, then multiply 0.25* x 60 (to convert to minutes) or (-)15'.
One can also include seconds if needed, or desired, but this takes additional steps that I could explain if anyone needs to know pm me.

My head hurts...

Good info.

Kevin

Posted By: Rick_Ehrenberg

Re: A NEW alignment question! - 07/19/13 08:03 PM

Quote:

Quote:

A good toe in will be about 1/4" toe in.. The reason for the toe in is that centrifugal force will put it at zero when you are going down the road.. Don't know about the degrees..

1/4" toe will KILL a set of tires. 1/8" MAX toe in.

I second that emotion!

Rick

Posted By: Lefty

Re: A NEW alignment question! - 07/19/13 10:30 PM

Quote:

Could someone explain what you mean by 'minutes'? Please.

The middle east gave us 60 minutes on our watches and 360 degrees on a compass instead of counting our fingers and toes like in base 10. 360 is divisible by more even numbers than 10 so is better for small measurements.

Divide a circle into 360 segments (degrees) then divide each segment (degree) into 60 equal parts (minutes) and then divide by 60 again for seconds.

Posted By: Yancy Derringer

Re: A NEW alignment question! - 07/23/13 07:26 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Could someone explain what you mean by 'minutes'? Please.

The middle east gave us 60 minutes on our watches and 360 degrees

Actually, Colonel MacGyver, uh, I mean, Jack O'Neill, "the ancients" used to think that there were 360 days in a year, IE the no. of days the sun took to circumvent the earth.