Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck
[Re: mopar dave]
#1426186
04/28/13 01:47 AM
04/28/13 01:47 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,315 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,315
Bend,OR USA
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Dave, the last 470 C.i. bracket motor I made and dyno tested made 720 HP at 7000 RPM( not peaked yet but the customer didn't want to test it any higher ), it was a 440 block bored to 4.380, 3.91 stroke, 7.1 rods with a set of KB Icon flat top pistons with valve reliefs(true 12.8 to 1 comp. ratio) a set of CNC MCH ported B1-BS heads (flowed 350 CFM at .700 lift)with a set of 1.5 Crane extruded aluminum roller tip rocker arms. The cam was a Crane custom grind that had the same lobes on both intake and exhaust, 273 degrees @ .050 with .420 or .430 lobe lift(CRS ). It had a sheet metal tunnel ram with two Holley 750 D.P. set of by Jet industreis in SO CA. The manifold and heads was the highest price parts on that motor and both of them where bought used at a decent price Lots of choices out there IHTH
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck
[Re: mopar dave]
#1426188
04/28/13 03:27 AM
04/28/13 03:27 AM
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399 Aurora, Colorado
451Mopar
master
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master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,399
Aurora, Colorado
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I like my 500" stroker. 12.4:1 compression with KB ICON (440 source) flat top pistons, 0.040" quench and max wedge victor heads (75cc chamber.) The only clearancing needed was just a bit from the oil pickup boss, did not need to notch the bores, and I run an internal 1/2" oil pickup. I also have the BCR caps and girdle, nice stuff, just watch the oil pan to drag link clearance as the girdle will make the oil pan a 1/2" lower.
My friend is running a 470, but it is an older build with the Mopar size rod bearings. I can't recall if the bores need notched for clearance, but it is using custom domed pistons to get 13:1 compression. The custom pistons cost over $1,000+/set.
The 512" stroker kit looks good too, 13.15:1 compression with 72cc heads, and it looks like the block won't need to be milled to get the pistons to zero deck. On the other hand if the pistons are above deck, make sure to use the correct thickness head gasket. The 512" kit also has an off the shelf domed piston it you have larger volume heads.
With any of these pistons, check piston to valve clearance. I think they will clear a cam with about 270 @ 0.050 duration, but a bigger cam may need deeper valve notches in the pistons.
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Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck
[Re: 451Mopar]
#1426189
04/28/13 07:17 AM
04/28/13 07:17 AM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 208 Norrland, Sweden
Swedcharger67
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 208
Norrland, Sweden
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Quote:
... The 512" stroker kit looks good too, 13.15:1 compression with 72cc heads, and it looks like the block won't need to be milled to get the pistons to zero deck. On the other hand if the pistons are above deck, make sure to use the correct thickness head gasket. The 512" kit also has an off the shelf domed piston it you have larger volume heads.
I think you are right. I'm right now building a 512 based on the 400-block, which has been slightly decked and got bored billet steel main caps, Stealth heads, all from 440Source.
The decking and boring of the mains has got my pistons to protrude worst case 0.016 inches above the deck (piston rocking taken into account by pressing down one side of the piston). I now have to decide on the quench and choose a suitable head gasket.
If I choose the 0.051 gasket minimum quench will be 0.035 and 12.5:1 static comp, while choosing a 0.060 gasket will have min quench 0f 0.044 and the comp drops to 12.2:1 ...don't like the drop in compression...it's an E85 engine.
Martin, 67 Charger, 512 cui, E85, MegaSquirt MS3X sequential ignition & injection
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Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck
[Re: mopar dave]
#1426193
04/28/13 10:56 AM
04/28/13 10:56 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,098 A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,098
A Banana Republic near you.
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Quote:
I was on the 440 source site (not sure how good their cranks are) and the price is the same for 3.91 and 4.15. thanks
You want to get a 4.25 crank , build the 511 , it will make be easier to attain your goal.
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Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck
[Re: mopar dave]
#1426196
04/28/13 11:39 AM
04/28/13 11:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,098 A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,098
A Banana Republic near you.
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Quote:
jim, can you explain how the 4.25 crank fit better than the 4.15? oil pickup boss and cylinder notching? so, what kind of power do's your 440-1 13:1 motor make? whats the car weight and whats it run?
4.15 stroke cranks are made with Mopar rod journal size , 4.25 with BBchevy rod journal , the BB chevy rod size is smaller and fits better. Also there are more options in BBC rod sizes , not so much , especially for the low deck stroker , in BB mopar rods.
The 4.25 is the way to go, the standard CH of a low deck piston is 1.32 , you can build the 451 , 470 and 511 with that same piston by just changing the rod length to go with the appropriate crank stroke.
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Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck
[Re: mopar dave]
#1426198
04/28/13 12:31 PM
04/28/13 12:31 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck
[Re: mopar dave]
#1426201
04/28/13 02:10 PM
04/28/13 02:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,098 A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,098
A Banana Republic near you.
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Quote:
ok,i understand. would 440source be a good place to by good quality crank and rods from?
Crank , maybe , rods , there are better out there for not much more.
Obviously price is a concern, just have it checked , do not assume it's good to go out of the box and good luck if it's not , unless something has changed with the new management ...
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Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck
[Re: mopar dave]
#1426202
04/28/13 02:15 PM
04/28/13 02:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,098 A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,098
A Banana Republic near you.
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Quote:
well,i have seen one of their cranks break,but who knows what was going on in that engine. maybe it had a ton on detonation? i'v seen eagle cranks break too. so who has affordable quality cranks and rods?
Call Dan at Performance Only and get a crank from Tom Molnar ... I think that's it, the guy that Started K1 and moved on when the company he sold K1 to and he had a falling out .
it won't cost a bunch more but if you have an issue Dan will make it RIGHT. I bought a set of Crane ultra lights from Dan last year but just getting around to measuring and checking them and discovered one lifter was damaged during manufacturing , Dan called Chase and Crane made it right.
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