Moparts
470 vs 500 stroker lo deck
Posted By: mopar dave
470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/27/13 03:44 PM
There's a big block in my future. gonna play with this 408 this year and maybe next than sell it or part it out.
Here's what i'm looking to do. I want to build something that will put me in the solid 9's. would like 13:1 and solid flat tappit with indy ez or 440-1 depends on header fitment into an A body. Ordered the main caps and girdle kit from Jerry for my 400 and would like to get the machining done this year,the rest next. this motor will be detuned and run on pump gas once I hit the 9's and will do street/strip duty only. what would you build 470 or 500?
Posted By: MPerry
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/27/13 04:05 PM
Its going to cost about the same so if starting from scratch go for more cubes!
There is no doubt either should be capable of meeting those goals.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/27/13 04:08 PM
I was on the 440 source site (not sure how good their cranks are) and the price is the same for 3.91 and 4.15. thanks
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/27/13 04:13 PM
Why not just get the 408 in the 9's...it isnt hard to do
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/27/13 04:32 PM
it seen hard when your car weights 3400lbs. motor makes about 600hp. i'm at 10.55 with a 1.50 60. if I went 2 points higher on comp,add a dom and improved on my 60 still don't think i'd get there. the cars too heavy and a think it needs bb torque to get there. i'm ready to move on. i'v got this season and next with the 408,then its over with the small block.
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/27/13 04:35 PM
Quote:
it seen hard when your car weights 3400lbs. motor makes about 600hp. i'm at 10.55 with a 1.50 60. if I went 2 points higher on comp,add a dom and improved on my 60 still don't think i'd get there. the cars too heavy and a think it needs bb torque to get there. i'm ready to move on. i'v got this season and next with the 408,then its over with the small block.
My duster weighed 3350 with my 300 pound butt in it, had stock suspension, and a 727 and went 9.80's...its easy, and i am far from smart...lol
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/27/13 04:44 PM
ok, what was your combo,comp,cam,etc. if ya don't mind me askin? i'v been workin on this 408 for 8 yrs now and come home from the track humbled everytime. i'v invested 10-$12,000 into this 408. cant do it any more. if I build a bigger pump it will be alittle easier.
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/27/13 04:52 PM
Quote:
ok, what was your combo,comp,cam,etc. if ya don't mind me askin? i'v been workin on this 408 for 8 yrs now and come home from the track humbled everytime. i'v invested 10-$12,000 into this 408. cant do it any more. if I build a bigger pump it will be alittle easier.
sent ya a pm...
422 w5
roller, 13 to 1 compression, cam was 273@ 50 and not agressive lobes, drove it around quite a bit
victor w2 intake
dominator
tt1 headers and mufflers
stock suspension with ce 3 way shocks and dot tires, and s/s springs, not minitubbed
727
3350 race weight..think it would have went 9.70 with a 904
Posted By: J_BODY
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/27/13 06:08 PM
Having had a car with a low buck RB, and another with a W5 416, (both high 9sec combo's) starting from ground zero you will have a cheaper less stressed combo from the big block. That's a no brainer.... but since you already have the 408 (not sure of the combo) you might be ahead of the game to stick to it and make some improvements. Going big block will also end up with a trans change, and more than likely a new torque converter purchase which will factor into the cost of the build.
Our big block is gone... and we're sticking with the small block. Not sure why....but we prefer it that way
Posted By: clovis
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/27/13 08:19 PM
Another option is simple 451, I used a stock forged crank, stage vi heads, mopar 590 cam and 13:1, to go 9.83 at 3300 lbs in a duster.
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/27/13 09:12 PM
Quote:
Having had a car with a low buck RB, and another with a W5 416, (both high 9sec combo's) starting from ground zero you will have a cheaper less stressed combo from the big block. That's a no brainer.... but since you already have the 408 (not sure of the combo) you might be ahead of the game to stick to it and make some improvements. Going big block will also end up with a trans change, and more than likely a new torque converter purchase which will factor into the cost of the build.
Our big block is gone... and we're sticking with the small block. Not sure why....but we prefer it that way
He has Indy heads a roller and good trans and convertor. I think with a few tweaks he can get where he want to.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/27/13 09:33 PM
Quote:
it seen hard when your car weights 3400lbs. motor makes about 600hp. i'm at 10.55 with a 1.50 60. if I went 2 points higher on comp,add a dom and improved on my 60 still don't think i'd get there. the cars too heavy and a think it needs bb torque to get there. i'm ready to move on. i'v got this season and next with the 408,then its over with the small block.
Add 100# if you go BB... so think about that
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/27/13 10:59 PM
yeah I know mike, that's why I was thinking maybe a 500 would be better than the 470.
Posted By: Triple Threat
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/27/13 11:18 PM
Small block will do it. Otherwise go 511"
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 01:35 AM
Quote:
Small block will do it. Otherwise go 511"
Or 518, mine(3450 Duster with me in it) went 9.90 through the muffs with the air cleaner on using Oregon 91 pump swill, 4.375 bore, 4.300 stroke with Indy SR M.W. heads, nothing spetacular in parts or work
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 01:52 AM
a 470 can make over 700hp.
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 01:58 AM
Quote:
a 470 can make over 700hp.
My 518 made 727 HP on Oregon pump gas at 4300 FT with the SR heads, 775 HP with the CNC ported 440-1, same cam, compression, intake, carb and jetting. More C.I., more CFM = more power My 526 C.I. RB made 775 HP with the SR on race gas on the same dyno, it made 845 HP with the Indy 440-1 CNC ported heads More compression,bigger C.I., more air = more power 
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 02:13 AM
i'm lookin at 12.5-13:1 with this bb.
Posted By: Joshs68
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 02:41 AM
Here is my 2 cents. I have and am happy with a 470. I do always wonder what 500+ cubes would be like. I bet nobody with 500 plus cubes wonders or even cares if they could have gotten there with a 470....
Posted By: dennismopar73
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 02:42 AM
By all means m make the change over to BB you will never look back!
anything in the 470 to 512 in low deck BB will do the job easy!!
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 02:47 AM
how much clearancing will there be with the 4.150 crank?
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 05:47 AM
Dave, the last 470 C.i. bracket motor I made and dyno tested made 720 HP at 7000 RPM( not peaked yet but the customer didn't want to test it any higher
), it was a 440 block bored to 4.380, 3.91 stroke, 7.1 rods with a set of KB Icon flat top pistons with valve reliefs(true 12.8 to 1 comp. ratio) a set of CNC MCH ported B1-BS heads (flowed 350 CFM at .700 lift)with a set of 1.5 Crane extruded aluminum roller tip rocker arms. The cam was a Crane custom grind that had the same lobes on both intake and exhaust, 273 degrees @ .050 with .420 or .430 lobe lift(CRS
). It had a sheet metal tunnel ram with two Holley 750 D.P. set of by Jet industreis in SO CA. The manifold and heads was the highest price parts on that motor and both of them where bought used at a decent price
Lots of choices out there
IHTH
Posted By: brownout
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 06:04 AM
You here of good numbers from any of the combos from 470-512 as mentioned before. I started to build a 500 based on the 400 block and was gonna go for a short piston and get the rotating assembly as light as I could. plans have changed and if you are interested I am going to be selling my eagle 4.15 crank that is brand new it has mopar rod journals also have clevite main bearings. I have a set of ported sr heads too that will be getting moved as well. I was planning on running mid 9s on e-85 but high 9s shouldnt be to hard on pump gas. Lot of strong running 400 strokers out there. good luck with the build.
Cody
Posted By: 451Mopar
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 07:27 AM
I like my 500" stroker. 12.4:1 compression with KB ICON (440 source) flat top pistons, 0.040" quench and max wedge victor heads (75cc chamber.) The only clearancing needed was just a bit from the oil pickup boss, did not need to notch the bores, and I run an internal 1/2" oil pickup. I also have the BCR caps and girdle, nice stuff, just watch the oil pan to drag link clearance as the girdle will make the oil pan a 1/2" lower.
My friend is running a 470, but it is an older build with the Mopar size rod bearings. I can't recall if the bores need notched for clearance, but it is using custom domed pistons to get 13:1 compression. The custom pistons cost over $1,000+/set.
The 512" stroker kit looks good too, 13.15:1 compression with 72cc heads, and it looks like the block won't need to be milled to get the pistons to zero deck. On the other hand if the pistons are above deck, make sure to use the correct thickness head gasket. The 512" kit also has an off the shelf domed piston it you have larger volume heads.
With any of these pistons, check piston to valve clearance. I think they will clear a cam with about 270 @ 0.050 duration, but a bigger cam may need deeper valve notches in the pistons.
Posted By: Swedcharger67
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 11:17 AM
Quote:
...
The 512" stroker kit looks good too, 13.15:1 compression with 72cc heads, and it looks like the block won't need to be milled to get the pistons to zero deck. On the other hand if the pistons are above deck, make sure to use the correct thickness head gasket. The 512" kit also has an off the shelf domed piston it you have larger volume heads.
I think you are right. I'm right now building a 512 based on the 400-block, which has been slightly decked and got bored billet steel main caps, Stealth heads, all from 440Source.
The decking and boring of the mains has got my pistons to protrude worst case 0.016 inches above the deck (piston rocking taken into account by pressing down one side of the piston). I now have to decide on the quench and choose a suitable head gasket.
If I choose the 0.051 gasket minimum quench will be 0.035 and 12.5:1 static comp, while choosing a 0.060 gasket will have min quench 0f 0.044 and the comp drops to 12.2:1 ...don't like the drop in compression...it's an E85 engine.
Posted By: 440Jim
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 11:37 AM
I have run both 3.915" and 4.250" stroke in a 400 block.
I recommend the 4.250" stroke and 6.535" rods with 2.2" bearings. This actually fits in the block easier/better than the 4.150" stroke and 6.76" rods with Mopar 2.375" bearings.
In my 4.250" engine, I have Indy 440-1 heads milled to 68cc combustion chambers and it gives 13.5 CR with a flat top piston made for a "451" engine (1.300-1.320" compression height). So if you want just 13.0, it can be done easy.
Posted By: mac56
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 12:32 PM
If you do decide to go big block, don't stop at 470 if you are starting from scratch.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 02:53 PM
brownout, I will send you a pm.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 02:56 PM
Quote:
I was on the 440 source site (not sure how good their cranks are) and the price is the same for 3.91 and 4.15. thanks
You want to get a 4.25 crank , build the 511 , it will make be easier to attain your goal.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 03:06 PM
jim, can you explain how the 4.25 crank fit better than the 4.15? oil pickup boss and cylinder notching?
so, what kind of power do's your 440-1 13:1 motor make? whats the car weight and whats it run?
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 03:08 PM
that will depend on how well the block really sonics out.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 03:39 PM
Quote:
jim, can you explain how the 4.25 crank fit better than the 4.15? oil pickup boss and cylinder notching?
so, what kind of power do's your 440-1 13:1 motor make? whats the car weight and whats it run?
4.15 stroke cranks are made with Mopar rod journal size , 4.25 with BBchevy rod journal , the BB chevy rod size is smaller and fits better. Also there are more options in BBC rod sizes , not so much , especially for the low deck stroker , in BB mopar rods.
The 4.25 is the way to go, the standard CH of a low deck piston is 1.32 , you can build the 451 , 470 and 511 with that same piston by just changing the rod length to go with the appropriate crank stroke.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 03:54 PM
ok,i understand. would 440source be a good place to by good quality crank and rods from?
Posted By: Anonymous
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 04:31 PM
No!
Posted By: dmking
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 04:56 PM
well i got a 440 source 440 crank> we shall see. it was real hard though. was a [Edited by Moparts - Family Friendly Site - Keep it clean] to drill to ballance it.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 06:04 PM
well,i have seen one of their cranks break,but who knows what was going on in that engine. maybe it had a ton on detonation? i'v seen eagle cranks break too.
so who has affordable quality cranks and rods?
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 06:10 PM
Quote:
ok,i understand. would 440source be a good place to by good quality crank and rods from?
Crank , maybe , rods , there are better out there for not much more.
Obviously price is a concern, just have it checked , do not assume it's good to go out of the box and good luck if it's not , unless something has changed with the new management ...
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 06:15 PM
Quote:
well,i have seen one of their cranks break,but who knows what was going on in that engine. maybe it had a ton on detonation? i'v seen eagle cranks break too.
so who has affordable quality cranks and rods?
Call Dan at Performance Only and get a crank from Tom Molnar ... I think that's it, the guy that Started K1 and moved on when the company he sold K1 to and he had a falling out .
it won't cost a bunch more but if you have an issue Dan will make it RIGHT. I bought a set of Crane ultra lights from Dan last year but just getting around to measuring and checking them and discovered one lifter was damaged during manufacturing , Dan called Chase and Crane made it right.
Posted By: J_BODY
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 06:30 PM
Something you have to keep in mind too Mopar Dave.... big cube engine can make a ton of power down low. My mech cammed stage VI 13-1 race engine sported a welded stock forged crank, stock main caps with ARP studs, stock LY rods with MP bolts, no block fill, and some light Ross pistons. I shifted at 5800, and trapped at 6200. It netted a best of 9.93 in my Mirada. We freshened that engine four times in 16 years and although it was worn to an "n'th" of it's usefull life, still ran really good.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 07:02 PM
torque is what i'm lookin for.
looks like k1 makes a 4.150 crank with 2.20 journals for lo deck.
Posted By: 440Jim
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 07:42 PM
Quote:
jim, can you explain how the 4.25 crank fit better than the 4.15? oil pickup boss and cylinder notching?
so, what kind of power do's your 440-1 13:1 motor make? whats the car weight and whats it run?
As John pointed out, the BB Chevy rod is smaller on the big end which clears the cylinders and oil pickup better, even with the slightly long stroke of the 4.250" vs 4.150".
My engine has not been on the dyno, but at 3250 pounds in a 1969 Dart it runs 9.15-9.30 depending on weather. And that is with a flat tappet, solid lifter cam (Comp MM305S-10, 279/287 at .050", .650"/.630" lift). And my heads are nothing special, just decent hand porting (355cfm).
Posted By: johnzgarage
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 08:59 PM
What heads are you going to use ???? 470 you have more choices.
Posted By: Swedcharger67
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 09:22 PM
Quote:
ok,i understand. would 440source be a good place to by good quality crank and rods from?
My 512 440Source kit for the 400-block is very good. 
Bearing clearances are spot on, weights of rods, pistons, pins very close to each other, ARP bolts, Clevite bearings, Icon pistons, all balanced. Technical support is quick and excellent.
I have checked everything and not found any problems.
That somebody is breaking a crank doesn't mean anything IMHO...I guess any crank can be broken with a improper build and/or engine setup.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 09:43 PM
Quote:
torque is what i'm lookin for.
looks like k1 makes a 4.150 crank with 2.20 journals for lo deck.
Can I ask why you are so fixated with a 4.15 stroke crank ? Unless you are building a custom piston that crank will require a rod that is 6.575 , I don't think that is an available rod size ?
The new K1 isn't the same as the old K1 , so I am told by one of their EX biggest cheerleaders .
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 10:49 PM
thanks jim,that some good info.
I believe k1 make a 4.15 stroke with a 2.20 journal.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 10:53 PM
haven't decided yet,thats a couple years down the road. want to get this short block scienced out. most likely would be a indy EZ or 440-1. I have an A body so header fitment may dictate header choice. this is a street/strip car.
Posted By: deaks
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 10:59 PM
Jim's car is testimony to how well this particular combination can work. That and his very dilligent way of doing things.
Mick
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/28/13 11:25 PM
how much can a 400 block beck decked? whats the max. positive deck height on a 400 stroker?
I could use a 6.760 rod with a 1.120 mahle piston if I can deck block .025. that would give 0 deck.
I do see what you meen. its easier matching parts for the 4.25 crank.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/29/13 12:02 AM
Quote:
how much can a 400 block beck decked? whats the max. positive deck height on a 400 stroker?
I could use a 6.760 rod with a 1.120 mahle piston if I can deck block .025. that would give 0 deck.
I do see what you meen. its easier matching parts for the 4.25 crank.
You can take .025 off the deck , but you need to cut an intake or your heads to make up for it.
You said you want to turn it into something for the street after you get your goal that's an awful short piston for something that will see a lot of street duty and it puts the pin up into the rings .
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/29/13 01:36 AM
yer absolutely right,i thought about that after I posted.
heres another mahle piston with a 1.350 ch that can be used for my application with a 6.535 rod and the 4.150 crank. would need the cut .020 from the deck for 0 deck. piston weights about 500g.
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/29/13 02:38 AM
Quote:
yer absolutely right,i thought about that after I posted.
heres another mahle piston with a 1.350 ch that can be used for my application with a 6.535 rod and the 4.150 crank. would need the cut .020 from the deck for 0 deck. piston weights about 500g.
The 4.15 stroke with BB chevy rods is shorter, less stroke= less torque The 4.25 or 4.300 stroke is way better than the 4.15 stroke 
Especially if your going to put a decent set of heads on it to start with I've built 4.25 stroke motor with the stock Mopar rod journal sizes, lots of block grinding needed to make them fit 
I've built the same combination with the 4.250 stroke with BB Chevy rod sizes and forged H beam rods and those needed a lot less grinding, the rod bearing speed is a lot less due to the smaller diameter rod journals at the same RPM, the rotating assembly is lighter, especially if you use a long rod, and a lot less grinding is needed on the blocks, as already pointed out The original 4.150 stroke was a easy way for Mopar to make a cheaply available forged steel stroker cranks for the aftermarket race car sales division of Mopar, it worked good back in the day The 4.250 stroke 2.200 rod journal size cranks are better
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/29/13 03:12 AM
Quote:
Quote:
yer absolutely right,i thought about that after I posted.
heres another mahle piston with a 1.350 ch that can be used for my application with a 6.535 rod and the 4.150 crank. would need the cut .020 from the deck for 0 deck. piston weights about 500g.
The 4.15 stroke with BB chevy rods is shorter, less stroke= less torque The 4.25 or 4.300 stroke is way better than the 4.15 stroke Especially if your going to put a decent set of heads on it to start with I've built 4.25 stroke motor with the stock Mopar rod journal sizes, lots of block grinding needed to make them fit I've built the same combination with the 4.250 stroke with BB Chevy rod sizes and forged H beam rods and those needed a lot less grinding, the rod bearing speed is a lot less due to the smaller diameter rod journals at the same RPM, the rotating assembly is lighter, especially if you use a long rod, and a lot less grinding is needed on the blocks, as already pointed out The original 4.150 stroke was a easy way for Mopar to make a cheaply available forged steel stroker cranks for the aftermarket race car sales division of Mopar, it worked good back in the day The 4.250 stroke 2.200 rod journal size cranks are better
Cab your talking like "we will say a 383 to a 440"
the 4.15 will rev higher and most likely will have
the torque in a higher range than a 440... so if you
want the torque at a lower rpm then yes the longer
stroke is better but if you want a rev engine then
you go with a shorter stroke.. so was the 383 a bad
engine... nope but the stock version wasnt set up
as a rev engine so it lacked in the torque... every
engine has a place and where it makes the torque...
but I think we will agree that RPM is power... if
its set up for the rpm
Posted By: 72Swinger
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/29/13 03:14 AM
Do you have to run external line with a 4.15 crank?
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/29/13 03:56 AM
K1 offers a 4.150 stroke crank with the 2.20 rod journal. so extra grinding wont be a problem when used with the chevy rod.
I would like this bb stroker to make peak hp similar to my sb which is 6800rpm.
with peak hp at 6800-7000 which would be the best crank to use?
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/29/13 04:21 AM
Quote:
K1 offers a 4.150 stroke crank with the 2.20 rod journal. so extra grinding wont be a problem when used with the chevy rod.
I would like this bb stroker to make peak hp similar to my sb which is 6800rpm.
with peak hp at 6800-7000 which would be the best crank to use?
The cam, heads, intake and exhaust will dictate peak HP and peak torque
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/29/13 04:35 AM
Quote:
Do you have to run external line with a 4.15 crank?
No
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/29/13 04:35 AM
Ok than what will it take to get there?
Posted By: 72Swinger
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/29/13 04:41 AM
The reason ive been thinkin about a 400/499 is because I have a new set of 6.76/.990 Eagles sitting on the shelf already. But I might be smart to just sell them and get a 512 kit.
No replacement for displacement..
Chris..
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/29/13 04:55 AM
Quote:
But I might be smart to just sell them and get a 512 kit.
take it from me , I'm building a 3.9 stroke 383 only because I already had the crank , machined block and pistons , if i had to do it again I would have sold the stuff and did a 4.25 stroke in a 400 block.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/29/13 04:57 AM
Quote:
K1 offers a 4.150 stroke crank with the 2.20 rod journal. so extra grinding wont be a problem when used with the chevy rod.
I would like this bb stroker to make peak hp similar to my sb which is 6800rpm.
with peak hp at 6800-7000 which would be the best crank to use?
Sounds like you want to build a B1 headed 470 ... 
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/29/13 05:23 AM
Indy heads with max wedge port and solid flat tappet.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/29/13 06:09 AM
Quote:
Quote:
K1 offers a 4.150 stroke crank with the 2.20 rod journal. so extra grinding wont be a problem when used with the chevy rod.
I would like this bb stroker to make peak hp similar to my sb which is 6800rpm.
with peak hp at 6800-7000 which would be the best crank to use?
Sounds like you want to build a B1 headed 470 ...
Hell a B-1 is gonna make peak above that point with
those cubes... if you didnt rev higher than that you'd
be leaving alot on the table
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/29/13 06:07 PM
i'm lookin at using an indy head with a 325cc port. haven't decided on which one yet. flat solid lifter in the 270/280 range. 2" header and probably a 1050 dom. looks like I might be able to reuse a vert and i'll need a bb 727 case.
Posted By: thecarfarmer
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/30/13 12:36 AM
Quote:
ok,i understand. would 440source be a good place to by good quality crank and rods from?
Quote:
No!
I learned this the hard way: when you buy an aftermarket crank, send it straight to the shop and have the journals checked. Before you start scraping the bearings to make 'em fit.
My brand new 440 Source crank needed the mains turned .010, and the thrust was cut too wide (too much end play), so I ended up having to get a set of -.010 bearings with +.010 wide on the thrust.
Brandon may have got a better handle on stuff in the last few years, but the next crank I put in ANYTHING will go to a shop w/ an arnold gauge before I even think about using it.
-Bill
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/30/13 07:12 PM
after sorting thru all these opinions it seems most say go for the cubes. I guess if I had an after maket block it would be a no brainer,but i'm using a stock 400 block and have been told the longer the stroke the harder it is on the block.looking for durability here too. the 470 still looks good to me. so i'm still undecided on the 470 and 500. i'll have to just weight things out abit. thanks for all your help.
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/30/13 07:30 PM
Quote:
after sorting thru all these opinions it seems most say go for the cubes. I guess if I had an after maket block it would be a no brainer,but i'm using a stock 400 block and have been told the longer the stroke the harder it is on the block.looking for durability here too. the 470 still looks good to me. so i'm still undecided on the 470 and 500. i'll have to just weight things out abit. thanks for all your help.
13+ years on my 470 and it`s been bored twice and is now .030 over and runs strong w/lots of torque and spins effortlessly to 7500 rpm`s . Hopefully we`ll see some strong results after my leaf mod and re-scale............ 
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/30/13 10:51 PM
Quote:
after sorting thru all these opinions it seems most say go for the cubes. I guess if I had an after maket block it would be a no brainer,but i'm using a stock 400 block and have been told the longer the stroke the harder it is on the block.looking for durability here too. the 470 still looks good to me. so i'm still undecided on the 470 and 500. i'll have to just weight things out abit. thanks for all your help.
The 400 blocks, all of them, are way stronger in the main webs than the RB or other B blocks are, way stronger My pump gas 400 stroker, 518 C.I. with a 4.300 stroke has been used at the races and on the street for over 6 yrs. now, I did put a set of the Mopar Brand Ductile Iron main caps and ARP main studs in that motor, my current 505 C.I. bracket motor is a 400 block with a 4,25 stroke crank in it also, same main caps and studs as the 518 motor has. The decision is yours, it is always easeir to let the throttle pedal position control how uch HP the motor makes when you have to much power than it is to hop up a already built motor to make more power 1.37 HP per C.I. is pretty easy to make, no matter which combination of bore and stroke you decide to use 1.37x470=643.9, 1.37x505=691.85
Posted By: Dean_Kuzluzski
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 04/30/13 11:58 PM
Quote:
most say go for the cubes................but i'm using a stock 400 block and have been told the longer the stroke the harder it is on the block.looking for durability here too. the 470 still looks good to me. so i'm still undecided on the 470 and 500.
A pro-engine builder once told me that the 470 was as short of a piston that you'd want to use in a lo-deck B-motor. The wristpin starts to crowd the oilring if if I recall correctly. Too short piston skirt too.
Just throwin' that out there for others to clarify.
Posted By: Thumperdart
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 05/01/13 12:05 AM
Quote:
Quote:
most say go for the cubes................but i'm using a stock 400 block and have been told the longer the stroke the harder it is on the block.looking for durability here too. the 470 still looks good to me. so i'm still undecided on the 470 and 500.
A pro-engine builder once told me that the 470 was as short of a piston that you'd want to use in a lo-deck B-motor. The wristpin starts to crowd the oilring if if I recall correctly. Too short piston skirt too.
Just throwin' that out there for others to clarify.
Not on mine w/a custom je and 6.385 chevy rods...........
Posted By: Biginchmopar
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 05/01/13 04:32 AM
I have a 498 and a 469 both 400 low deck motors. 498 drag race only 1.122" CH piston. 469 1.660" CH piston street strip car. The 498 rotating assmebly is light and helps it live @ 8500RPM.
Street motor sees 7500 RPM once in while.
With the heads you have either will work real good.
Good Luck!
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 05/01/13 02:21 PM
I think i'm leaning towards the 500. the peak tq should be around 51-5200 with peak hp coming in around 6700. should be a good street/strip combo.
Posted By: JohnRR
Re: 470 vs 500 stroker lo deck - 05/01/13 03:09 PM
Quote:
after sorting thru all these opinions it seems most say go for the cubes. I guess if I had an after maket block it would be a no brainer,but i'm using a stock 400 block and have been told the longer the stroke the harder it is on the block.looking for durability here too. the 470 still looks good to me. so i'm still undecided on the 470 and 500. i'll have to just weight things out abit. thanks for all your help.
Quote:
I think i'm leaning towards the 500. the peak tq should be around 51-5200 with peak hp coming in around 6700. should be a good street/strip combo.
you're as crazy as me I think