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Re: Did '70 Hemi Cudas have Wheel Opening Moldings?
[Re: Alaskan_TA]
#1358830
12/27/12 04:04 PM
12/27/12 04:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,668
Mi,U.S.A.
mike s
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,668
Mi,U.S.A.
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Quote:
The part that baffles me - Why would Chrysler send these cars out for such a simple procedure?
I have heard two versions of the 'story'.
1. They were shipped out to Creative for this, but that same source said that the AAR & T/A hoods were made at Creative, but they were marked 'Made in Canada'.
2. That a 'tool' for this modification was designed by Creative for use in the plant on the Cudas. This source said that it was used on all AARs, when it is clearly not the case looking at original sheet metal cars.
So, proof anyone? I would love to see it if it exists. 
1.)T/A & Six Pac hoods were designed not built at Creative.I worked on several designs (at least 6).Only the prototypes were built at Creative.They very well could have used the Canadian hoods without scoops as a starting point.
2.)Never did T/A fender get modified at Creative.Tools never left Creative and the T/A's did not need the fender mods.
3.)All the Cuda's (bulk of the 70 production)reworked at Creative had the wheel lips mouldings.(until about March 70 when work ended at Creative.
There is only one story,the truth.My memory is just fine and I checked with my partner and others who worked with me on the Cuda's to verify anything I have posted over the years.
I know the truth does not fit the experts "story" Guess what, they were and are wrong.For years they made up stories to fit what they had been telling their customers.mags etc.
I also have tried several times to access the paperwork (if there is any).The present owners of Creative will not allow me to access the Creative records.That is ongoing.Camera's were not allowed in Creative.This was hardly an easy modification on the assy line.Damage to the fenders would have been huge.That is why Creative did the mods.
Proof? There it is,not enough for you but the truth.
Leave the gun.......take the Cannoli's....Mike
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Re: Did '70 Hemi Cudas have Wheel Opening Moldings?
[Re: 1cuda]
#1358833
12/28/12 12:06 AM
12/28/12 12:06 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,651
Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA
Fluffy Balladeer
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Fluffy Balladeer
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,651
Hamtramck, PA
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There is paperwork mentioning Creative & the wing cars. There is paperwork showing that Creative was to design the T/A hood scoop. So there may be paperwork somewhere showing modifications to 1970 Cuda front fenders? If anyone has a copy, I would love to see it & so would everyone else. 
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Re: Did '70 Hemi Cudas have Wheel Opening Moldings?
[Re: Alaskan_TA]
#1358836
12/28/12 01:39 AM
12/28/12 01:39 AM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 187
Las Vegas
LVSRT10
Not the new guy anymore!
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Not the new guy anymore!
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 187
Las Vegas
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Just my  I don't know how many of you have actually been in an assembly plant, but I can tell you it is NOT as structured as you think. In 1994 I watched Ram Trucks, Minivans, B-Vans (which at the time were still being welded together by people), and Intrepids being assembled. Things were much more efficient in 1994 than in the musclecar era, and the variations of the parts in the bins, and even more so how they were put on a vehicle, was staggering to someone who THOUGHT he knew how things worked. The reality of how a vehcle is assembled is FAR different than the perception. If guy at station is bolting something on the last thing he cares about is if the bolts he is using are all the same, it's just a job to them just like in 1970. Moral of the story is you are asking for proof of the unprovable here. --Jeff
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Re: Did '70 Hemi Cudas have Wheel Opening Moldings?
[Re: LVSRT10]
#1358837
12/28/12 01:44 AM
12/28/12 01:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,651
Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA
Fluffy Balladeer
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Fluffy Balladeer
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,651
Hamtramck, PA
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Unprovable? Maybe. Does it hurt to ask? Never. There are a lot of mysteries with these cars that have been cleared up just by a few old pages surfacing now & then.
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Re: Did '70 Hemi Cudas have Wheel Opening Moldings?
[Re: Alaskan_TA]
#1358838
12/28/12 02:36 AM
12/28/12 02:36 AM
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Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 187
Las Vegas
LVSRT10
Not the new guy anymore!
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Not the new guy anymore!
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 187
Las Vegas
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Quote:
Unprovable?
Maybe.
Does it hurt to ask?
Never.
There are a lot of mysteries with these cars that have been cleared up just by a few old pages surfacing now & then.
Asking should never be an issue for anyone, it's how we learn.
As to the highlighted point, this is exactly the fallacy I am talking about. You cannot apply the same rules to what amounts to, by todays standards anyway, a collection of basically handbuilt cars just because of what a piece of paper says. If assembly instruction says to do "A", and Fred on shift 1 does "B", then Joe on shift 2 does "C", then Fred is sick on Tuesday and Mike who is subbing does "D" which one is right?
I have restored my share of these cars and I can tell you from experience that, like fingerprints, no two are the same. So, IMHO the only correct way is to document the car as it comes apart because my car is different than yours, and sometimes VERY different.
I would put FAR more faith in what someone who was there says, over what any piece of paper says.
--Jeff
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Re: Did '70 Hemi Cudas have Wheel Opening Moldings?
[Re: LVSRT10]
#1358839
12/28/12 02:50 AM
12/28/12 02:50 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,651
Hamtramck, PA
Alaskan_TA
Fluffy Balladeer
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Fluffy Balladeer
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 29,651
Hamtramck, PA
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I am well aware of cars being unique in their builds, I have documented some of those details myself as a historian. The low mile T/A had a few things about it not considered 'normal'. I also know there is paperwork out there I have not seen yet, that is all I am saying. If it does exist somewhere it would benefit all of us to see it. Sometimes it falls in our laps & sometimes we have to ask for it. 
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Re: Did '70 Hemi Cudas have Wheel Opening Moldings?
[Re: Alaskan_TA]
#1358840
12/28/12 02:49 PM
12/28/12 02:49 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,108
Chicago Blackhawks
hemicar1971
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,108
Chicago Blackhawks
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The practice of sending Vehicles to other industries still happens today in the Automotive Plant I work at. Vehicles are driven to another plant, about a 6 miles drive and the stripes are put on them. Then the vehicles are driven back for transport carrier shipment. I know from working most of my life in these Automotive Plants that the rules are NO CAMERAS. Even now phones with cameras are a problem and if caught using photos taken from inside the property you are going to have your rights to work for the company taken away, Fired. There has been a few firings were I work lately. Next when I was a lot younger and working in these plants all you cared about was making money, a job was a job and in those days you could get another job the same day if you wanted, not like today at all. So we as workers just dont care, we were there for the money.
This is the way I look at it. How many Hemi Cudas were built between the time the problem was noticed on the front fenders and the last fender was modified by Creative Industries. It would easy the pain of build and repair if these few numbers of Cudas were sent outside of plant and fixed. How many a day would be sent out to have this fix completed. It would be nothing but a pain to set up in plant to fix these Cudas off line. So Creative were sent the cars and developed a method or fix, and this likely was just a quick fix that went for months and the fix over time would change constantly via tooling and personal. We all know there was a fix and Creative did the fix.The paper work might come to the public for viewing but dont hold your breath. Creative now lives in the present not the past and really does not care about a 1970 Hemi Cuda Fender. This is much like how come Chrysler does not have very much information about the 1970 E Body build, vin data like G30-G31 info. It likely is not sitting in a warehouse to be found one day and solve all us hobbist question. It was likely taken to the boiler room of a power house, the room were the coal gets shoveled and burnt for power. If would be nice to have the paper work from Creative but for now first had knowledge or worker knowledge is all that there is and likely that is all there ever will be.
1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY
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Re: Did '70 Hemi Cudas have Wheel Opening Moldings?
[Re: mike s]
#1358841
12/28/12 06:05 PM
12/28/12 06:05 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 14
Michigan
quadram4
member
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member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 14
Michigan
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I am 1 of the guys who worked at Creative during this period. What Mike S is telling all of you is fact (I may be old but my memory is intact!)Everybody has some sort of story, but did they work there? I think not! As Mike S mentioned cameras were not allowed in creative, and why would we take pics anyway? Who cared at that time, if I knew then what I know now, I would have snuck some pics out of the plant and also would have bought a dozen hemi cudas, so I could live large today! Nobody thought about what would happen in the future, be bought these cars beat the bejesus out of them the sold them for another one! As far as the A12's we only did the roadrunners at the 10 mile plant, the came in with no hoods or latches, we installed the rear brkts and the hood pins, installed the hood and pins, and the chrome bases had the lanyards to the inboard rivits, 3 oclock r/s, 9 oclock l/s. PS, Creative scrapped more hoods than we installed, due to defects, cracks and mostly busted off corners! This is the only proof I can offer, is my eye witness account! Believe it or not, Bob
Last edited by quadram4; 12/28/12 06:13 PM.
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Re: Did '70 Hemi Cudas have Wheel Opening Moldings?
[Re: quadram4]
#1358842
12/28/12 06:28 PM
12/28/12 06:28 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,516
Las Vegas, NV
6bblgt
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,516
Las Vegas, NV
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Quote:
As far as the A12's we only did the roadrunners at the 10 mile plant, the came in with no hoods or latches, we installed the rear brkts and the hood pins, installed the hood and pins, and the chrome bases had the lanyards to the inboard rivits, 3 oclock r/s, 9 oclock l/s. PS, Creative scrapped more hoods than we installed, due to defects, cracks and mostly busted off corners!
thanks for the added info Bob!
How far from Lynch Rd. Assembly to the 10 Mile Creative facility? How did the RRs arrive/leave?
Of the roughtly 1500 A12 440 6bbl Road Runners built during the spring of '69 (March thru June, I'll "assume" you were employed there at this time) do you feel this number of cars was final assembled at Creative?
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Re: Did '70 Hemi Cudas have Wheel Opening Moldings?
[Re: quadram4]
#1358844
12/29/12 01:42 AM
12/29/12 01:42 AM
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 641
western australia
1cuda
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 641
western australia
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Quote:
I am 1 of the guys who worked at Creative during this period. What Mike S is telling all of you is fact (I may be old but my memory is intact!)Everybody has some sort of story, but did they work there? I think not! As Mike S mentioned cameras were not allowed in creative, and why would we take pics anyway? Who cared at that time, if I knew then what I know now, I would have snuck some pics out of the plant and also would have bought a dozen hemi cudas, so I could live large today! Nobody thought about what would happen in the future, be bought these cars beat the bejesus out of them the sold them for another one! As far as the A12's we only did the roadrunners at the 10 mile plant, the came in with no hoods or latches, we installed the rear brkts and the hood pins, installed the hood and pins, and the chrome bases had the lanyards to the inboard rivits, 3 oclock r/s, 9 oclock l/s. PS, Creative scrapped more hoods than we installed, due to defects, cracks and mostly busted off corners! This is the only proof I can offer, is my eye witness account! Believe it or not, Bob
thank you bob for the information you have given-i didn`t want to mention your name in my previous posts but i did keep referring back to an article in mcg july 97. seems that your name is the main information source for that article. the article states both runners and bees were delivered to creative and then the steel hoods were removed. by installing the brackets for the rear hood pins did you have to repaint the area where the hood hinges were? please let me know as we are going to be restoring the a12 car and if that was the case we will paint the car with hood hinges on then remove them and install the pin brackets and then re-shoot paint over that area. should we tap out the threads to install the hood hinges or were they held on with some other means.
if they were shipped to creative with no hoods then after installing the rear hood brackets did you re-shoot the paint in that area? again-please let me know because we want to restore the car correctly.
thanking you for your time
frank.
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Re: Did '70 Hemi Cudas have Wheel Opening Moldings?
[Re: 1cuda]
#1358845
12/29/12 03:07 PM
12/29/12 03:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 14
Michigan
quadram4
member
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member
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 14
Michigan
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Hey Frank how u doing? First let me clear up 1 item, on that 97 mcg article my info was not reported correctly! This is part of the reason that info gets all screwed up! I never said we did the superbees at the 10 mile rd plant, because we didnt! We did roadrunner A12's, daytonas and superbirds. On your question, the rr were transported the approx 10 miles to creative on car carriers, they were delivered with no hood hinges ever being installed, no latch mech, and no pop up spring. We painted the brkts installed them into the hood hinge set up, assembled the pins and inst the hoods. I will admit 1 thing i do not remember if creative put the 440-6 decals on, because I know for fact they did not come installed, because I inspected them and scrapped many, many hoods! As i said previously if I knew then what I know now, them damaged hoods wld have been in my garage instead of the dumpster where many ended up!
PS you can use my name any time u want, I was there as was Mike S, Mike was at the outer drive plant, he did the hemi fenders, What he says is gosple, We were there, how many of u can say that? Good luck on your resto, I have done 2 a12 runners, both rallye green, 1 four speed, 1 auto, Bob
Last edited by quadram4; 12/29/12 03:10 PM.
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Re: Did '70 Hemi Cudas have Wheel Opening Moldings?
[Re: 1cuda]
#1358847
12/29/12 05:39 PM
12/29/12 05:39 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,301
colorado
a12superbee
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,301
colorado
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I'm sorry and hate to thread jack, but I find it hard to believe that Creative did the A12 runners but not the bees. They did come down the same assembly line.
I doubt I'm the only one, just the only one stupid enough to poke a stick at the subject.
I can't afford this.
mark
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