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Newly built motor won't budge. HELP!!! #1276342
07/30/12 12:31 AM
07/30/12 12:31 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,647
Houston Texas
PAINT IT BLACK Offline OP
Got a CHIP on my shoulder
PAINT IT BLACK  Offline OP
Got a CHIP on my shoulder

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,647
Houston Texas
We dyno'd the 408 when it was built. Everything fine. Brought it home, installed damper, input shaft bushing and new clutch w/ new flywheel bolts. Now that the motor is painted & in the car, I can't turn the crank by hand OR with starter.

I have gone as far as to disconnect 4 speed trans with the thought that shaft was in a bind, but it still won't turn.

Could it be that I installed the damper incorrectly or damaged something?? Could it be something with the flywheel bolts (too long?)?I was trying to set it to TDC so I could fire it up for the first time, and somehow the car ended up in pieces and my day went to hell.

This motor isn't budging at all. What is stopping my crank from turning?!?

Re: Newly built motor won't budge. HELP!!! [Re: PAINT IT BLACK] #1276343
07/30/12 12:39 AM
07/30/12 12:39 AM
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Rancho Cordova, California (Sa...
hemi71x Offline
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A bolt too long holding the flywheel, to the back of the crankshaft?
Can you turn it any direction?


RF-4C Phantom 69-370 Zweibrucken, Germany

Re: Newly built motor won't budge. HELP!!! [Re: hemi71x] #1276344
07/30/12 12:41 AM
07/30/12 12:41 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,647
Houston Texas
PAINT IT BLACK Offline OP
Got a CHIP on my shoulder
PAINT IT BLACK  Offline OP
Got a CHIP on my shoulder

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Houston Texas
It won't turn either direction.

Re: Newly built motor won't budge. HELP!!! [Re: PAINT IT BLACK] #1276345
07/30/12 12:42 AM
07/30/12 12:42 AM
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1_WILD_RT Offline
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What damper was on the engine when it was on the dyno? Is the flywheel/clutch/pressure plate all new? Any chance the flywheel binds in the bellhousing? How about the bolts mounting the crank pulley?


"The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."
Re: Newly built motor won't budge. HELP!!! [Re: PAINT IT BLACK] #1276346
07/30/12 12:47 AM
07/30/12 12:47 AM
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Chilliwack B.C. Canada
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RUNCHARGER Offline
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Flywheel to crank bolts are too long is the most probable cause.

Sheldon

Re: Newly built motor won't budge. HELP!!! [Re: RUNCHARGER] #1276347
07/30/12 12:56 AM
07/30/12 12:56 AM
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Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk Offline
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Remove the flywheel first, then the damper...

Re: Newly built motor won't budge. HELP!!! [Re: PAINT IT BLACK] #1276348
07/30/12 01:03 AM
07/30/12 01:03 AM
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chicagoland,usa
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buildanother Offline
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the balancer can't really hold it, so I'd bet on flywheel bolts also. There is not alot of extra room there.

Re: Newly built motor won't budge. HELP!!! [Re: buildanother] #1276349
07/30/12 01:09 AM
07/30/12 01:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,647
Houston Texas
PAINT IT BLACK Offline OP
Got a CHIP on my shoulder
PAINT IT BLACK  Offline OP
Got a CHIP on my shoulder

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Houston Texas
Quote:

the balancer can't really hold it, so I'd bet on flywheel bolts also. There is not alot of extra room there.




This is what I'm thinking now... the replacement of the bolts didn't occur to me until I started this thread, but the reason they were replaced is the builder lost the originals. I bet this is the reason. I'll dig in tomorrow.

Re: Newly built motor won't budge. HELP!!! [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #1276350
07/30/12 01:43 AM
07/30/12 01:43 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,647
Houston Texas
PAINT IT BLACK Offline OP
Got a CHIP on my shoulder
PAINT IT BLACK  Offline OP
Got a CHIP on my shoulder

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,647
Houston Texas
Quote:

What damper was on the engine when it was on the dyno? Is the flywheel/clutch/pressure plate all new? Any chance the flywheel binds in the bellhousing? How about the bolts mounting the crank pulley?




Thinking back... I think this damper was actually used in this last build, so that's not it (though I did add a different crank pulley. so I'll recheck that before I do anything).

Flywheel is the same, but the clutch/plate are new to this car.... under 400 miles, like new - leftover from another one of my cars. Flywheel clears the bell housing fine.

Thanks y'all!

Re: Newly built motor won't budge. HELP!!! [Re: PAINT IT BLACK] #1276351
07/30/12 02:07 AM
07/30/12 02:07 AM
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A Red State
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Make sure that the crank pulley bolts aren't too long and hitting the timing cover at the front seal.

I way going through my timing covers looking for one to clean up when I saw one the looked like the crank pulley bolts were tightened in to it (that or puller bolts were twisted into it).

Definitely check the flywheel bolts.


Kayse can't keep up at all now. lol
Re: Newly built motor won't budge. HELP!!! [Re: SNK-EYZ] #1276352
07/30/12 02:26 AM
07/30/12 02:26 AM
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1_WILD_RT Offline
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Typically the starter or a socket & breaker bar would cause long bolts attaching the pulley to chew up the timing cover but the engine would still turn & start/run..... So i agree probably the flywheel bolts are to long... You should be able to see that fairly well with the clutch cover removed you can see the crank flange & the rear main bearing/seal retainer cap...


"The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."
Re: Newly built motor won't budge. HELP!!! [Re: 1_WILD_RT] #1276353
07/30/12 04:36 AM
07/30/12 04:36 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,647
Houston Texas
PAINT IT BLACK Offline OP
Got a CHIP on my shoulder
PAINT IT BLACK  Offline OP
Got a CHIP on my shoulder

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Houston Texas
Well, I can see the flange/bolts with the inspection cover removed and it doesn't seem the bolts are too long. They just barely make it through the flange.

The crank pulley bolts are short, so that can't be it either. Again, the trans is unbolted and pulled back to where the splines are not in the clutch anymore and this has been isolated to the motor. I don't want to pull the trans out, because it will require the removal of my AAR exhaust (pain in the butt), as well as the driveshaft loop, which is bolted to the body of the car.... just a bunch of reinstall headaches which seem unnecessary.

I can't really remember clearly, its been so long, but I may have removed the damper for painting... Would it be possible for me to have overtightened the damper to the point where it could be causing this? Long shot, but what about the distributor gear? Could I have jammed that with a careless install? If so, would it jam the motor up like this?

Other than that, I don't see what could possibly be causing this. It is REALLY stuck!

Re: Newly built motor won't budge. HELP!!! [Re: PAINT IT BLACK] #1276354
07/30/12 04:42 AM
07/30/12 04:42 AM
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Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT Offline
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The damper shouldn't be able to lock the engine... Well the part that goes through the cover & the bolt going into the crank shouldn't... If anything is contacting the damper outside the cover it's possible.... Good luck, this sucks..


"The Armies of our ancestors were lucky, in that they were not trailed by a second army of pencil pushers."
Re: Newly built motor won't budge. HELP!!! [Re: PAINT IT BLACK] #1276355
07/30/12 06:44 AM
07/30/12 06:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
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central Florida
VL21 Offline
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OK, perhaps this is a long shot, but is it possible the pressure plate cover is against the bell housing? Taller, installed before the bell?
I did this once long ago, but on something else...using a non stock set up...?


It takes gasoline to interest me.
Re: Newly built motor won't budge. HELP!!! [Re: PAINT IT BLACK] #1276356
07/30/12 08:22 AM
07/30/12 08:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
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Pull the spark plugs...

Re: Newly built motor won't budge. HELP!!! [Re: PAINT IT BLACK] #1276357
07/30/12 09:37 AM
07/30/12 09:37 AM
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U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Online rolleyes
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Quote:


I can't really remember clearly, its been so long, but I may have removed the damper for painting... Would it be possible for me to have overtightened the damper to the point where it could be causing this? Long shot, but what about the distributor gear? Could I have jammed that with a careless install? If so, would it jam the motor up like this?






Dampner being too tight wouldn't cause this , I'd start pulling off things that may cause the issue , pulley bolts , pop out the distributor , I had a pontiac iron duke that the roll pin holding the drive gear on can out and lockup up the cam , it sheared the key off that held the cam gear in place , if the pin that holds the drive gear to the oil pump shaft spit out for some reason it could lock up the motor.


Re: Newly built motor won't budge. HELP!!! [Re: Challenger 1] #1276358
07/30/12 09:55 AM
07/30/12 09:55 AM
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Posts: 235
Central Mississippi
mopar97 Offline
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Quote:

Pull the spark plugs...



In the past I have had an engine fill one cylinder with gas while on a long trip. It is possible the carb needle leaked (bouncing) and filled a cylinder that had the intake valve open with fuel. Hard to compress a liquid? With everything you have checked so far that would be my next step....
Hopefully that helps.
Allen


Mopar born, Mopar breed, when I die, call me Mopar dead!
Re: Newly built motor won't budge. HELP!!! [Re: mopar97] #1276359
07/30/12 11:36 AM
07/30/12 11:36 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,647
Houston Texas
PAINT IT BLACK Offline OP
Got a CHIP on my shoulder
PAINT IT BLACK  Offline OP
Got a CHIP on my shoulder

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Posts: 7,647
Houston Texas
When I was stabbing the 4 speed while the motor was on a dolly, about to go into the car.... I tapped the end of the trans a few times with a 2.5 lb hammer. It was stuck with about a half inch left and I couldn't wrestle it in anymore (thought it was just a tight new bushing).

Could that have damaged a bearing in the motor??

Re: Newly built motor won't budge. HELP!!! [Re: PAINT IT BLACK] #1276360
07/30/12 11:41 AM
07/30/12 11:41 AM
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Posts: 11,543
chicagoland,usa
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buildanother Offline
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If you damaged the pilot bushing-bearing, it would still let engine turn. An engine thrust bearing is a tough piece that should not be your problem. When you say it won't budge, do you mean it is locked tight in either direction?

Re: Newly built motor won't budge. HELP!!! [Re: Challenger 1] #1276361
07/30/12 11:53 AM
07/30/12 11:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,647
Houston Texas
PAINT IT BLACK Offline OP
Got a CHIP on my shoulder
PAINT IT BLACK  Offline OP
Got a CHIP on my shoulder

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,647
Houston Texas
Quote:

Pull the spark plugs...




Called the builder and this is what he said. I can fathom that water might have gotten behind the tape I used when pressure washing before painting.... I bet this works.

He said hammering the trans in wouldn't likely hurt anything.

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