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my car feels drunk.
#1253249
06/18/12 07:19 PM
06/18/12 07:19 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 757
Toronto, Ont, Canada
boydsdodge
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 757
Toronto, Ont, Canada
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1974 Swinger, rebuilt front suspension, not very old rear suspension. Here is what I have. Reinforced welded K/Frame,Firm Feel adjustable strut rods, reinforced lower control arms with rubber bushings, 11 3/4 front disc brakes,1 1/16th front sway bar,.98 torsion bars, C-body tie rod ends, rebuilt steering box with a supposed firmer feel, urethane strut and sway bar bushings, Bilstien shocks, welded in 2x3 sub frame connectors through the floor, 235/60/15 Yokohama front, 255/60,15 Yokohama rear, older Mopar performance extra heavy duty rear springs with front hanger flipped, all new bushings urethane shackle bushings. The car was driving fine before the rebuild, but I thought I would make some improvements and preventative maintenance, now after the rebuild when I am on the highway taking an off ramp mostly wide left my cars rear feels as if its got it's own steering going on back there and the faster I get from 40 MPH my steering box feels empty up center wider and wider with speed. I can't just hold steady on the ramp like I was able to do before and it's actually a bit scary in traffic all moving at speed of 60 to 75 Mph. What did I do wrong or what do you guys think might be wrong? Ask for more info if needed. Also had a $200.00 alignment because he had to adjust strut rods, and torsion bars. Man it's hard to find a good intelligent alignment shop around here. Alignment specs are: 5deg positive caster 1/2deg neg camber 1/16th toe in 25" to top of front wheel well, 5.25" inch to bottom of K Frame. 8.75" to bottom of lower ball joint. almost forgot, I also get the feeling of torque steer when I hit throttle during highway drive. Thanks. 
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Re: my car feels drunk.
[Re: boydsdodge]
#1253252
06/18/12 08:09 PM
06/18/12 08:09 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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See if you got slop in your idler arm.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: my car feels drunk.
[Re: boydsdodge]
#1253253
06/18/12 08:12 PM
06/18/12 08:12 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
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Quote:
I had it all set to where I wanted but he went changing things on the height until I told him I was at the height I wanted,then he had to put it back to my height I had originally.
The struts I had set to what I measured square, but he said needed a half turn and one turn,
He called it a custom job so I had to pay.
The front feels great for solo runs but higher up in speed its a drunk.
Could this be bump steer? Maybe too tall a side wall? Maybe but it felt better before rebuild.
Seat of the pants feels like the rear end is moving fore and aft cause it's own steering input.
All is tight back there.
With what you are describing it could be a variety of factors. First things I would check:
-every thing he touched is tightened back down
-ensure hub bearings and all ball joints are still tight
-rear axle is square with front, may be that the rear axle is canted front to rear (check trueness of wheels back there too)
-double check the toe, sounds like handling of the car when I run a lot of toe out for tighter autocross, then try to drive it home.
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Re: my car feels drunk.
[Re: boydsdodge]
#1253256
06/18/12 09:38 PM
06/18/12 09:38 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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Are your leaf springs flat and/or level at rest with the new springs and flipped hangers?
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: my car feels drunk.
[Re: boydsdodge]
#1253257
06/18/12 10:43 PM
06/18/12 10:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
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Quote:
I had it all set to where I wanted but he went changing things on the height until I told him I was at the height I wanted,then he had to put it back to my height I had originally.
...
Screw that guy. 
Sounds like he has good recommendations from people, but maybe he is taking advantage of it. A guy that would charge another $200 to inspect your suspension. Like he's the only game in town. Maybe he is. But I sort of doubt it. Might be time to buy you own alignment tools for those prices or do some more shop searching.
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Re: my car feels drunk.
[Re: ahy]
#1253258
06/18/12 10:46 PM
06/18/12 10:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
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Quote:
The specs sound good... both parts and alignment. But is still doesn't drive right.
The poly lower bushings can allow some slop in LCA position and steering depending on tolerences but the adjustable strut rods should take that out. Suggest you double check for any extra clearance around the LCA bushings. I believe best is to set strut rod length before installing T bars. Adjust length for very slight pre-load of the bushings as you sweep the LCA up and down but no binding. After that, ask your alignment guy to please leave it alone. Same on ride height. Set it on a pair of ramps with the rear on axle stands and ask your alignment guy to leave it alone. Camber, caster and toe sh
ould do it.
He said he's running stock rubber LCA bushings. So should be fine IF everything was pressed in properly.
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Re: my car feels drunk.
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1253259
06/18/12 10:59 PM
06/18/12 10:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
ahy
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
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Quote:
Quote:
The specs sound good... both parts and alignment. But is still doesn't drive right.
The poly lower bushings can allow some slop in LCA position and steering depending on tolerences but the adjustable strut rods should take that out. Suggest you double check for any extra clearance around the LCA bushings. I believe best is to set strut rod length before installing T bars. Adjust length for very slight pre-load of the bushings as you sweep the LCA up and down but no binding. After that, ask your alignment guy to please leave it alone. Same on ride height. Set it on a pair of ramps with the rear on axle stands and ask your alignment guy to leave it alone. Camber, caster and toe sh
ould do it.
He said he's running stock rubber LCA bushings. So should be fine IF everything was pressed in properly.
Yep... missed the rubber LCA bushings.
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Re: my car feels drunk.
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1253261
06/19/12 09:11 AM
06/19/12 09:11 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
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I'd be sure to tell the guy that you'll spread the word on his price gouging for work that he did, that you didn't ask him to do, and asked him to UNDO it. he seriously charged you $200 to tweak the torsion bars without asking you about it, then to set it back where it was after he did the unauthorized work? and that's a "CUSTOM" alignment?! I had one shop pull that crap on me, and I haven't been back since. shame on them, I was a loyal customer, went to them for everything I needed, tires, alignments, dismount tires to add a patch, etc. took my dakota there with Hotchkis suspension, asked for specific alignment specs, the ones that Hotchkis calls for. without batting an eye, the guy said "ok, no problem" then surprised me when I went to pick it up with a bill that was $150. I pointed to the board and said "says right there a 2 wheel alignment is $70." that's when he pulled the "custom" crap, even when I pointed out that the numbers I asked for were WITHIN the factory range of settings, just that I was looking for specific settings. turns out asking the guy to hit a specific number is impossible, but getting them within a few hundredths is manageable, but is too hard for the tech to do, because he doesn't get to move stuff around until the squares on the computer screen turn green, and he has to actually walk over to look at the numbers.  And I've not been back to him since. big surprise to me, the "big box tire store" that was just put in recently, had MUCH better service. I took another vehicle into him, a buddy's Dakota. just asked for "in the green" standard alignment. but, we had just replaced the transmission, and hadn't gotten the reverse lock-out hooked up yet, or get the clutch or transmission broke in yet. the brakes were brand new and hadn't set themselves yet. When I mentioned all this to the manager, just so their tech was aware of it when he test drove it afterwards, he said "tell ya what. you take it home, drive it around, and if you don't like how it feels, bring it back, we'll give you 3 months to come back in for a free adjustment if something doesn't feel right on it" 
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: my car feels drunk.
[Re: boydsdodge]
#1253262
06/20/12 11:10 AM
06/20/12 11:10 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,394
Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,394
Pikes Peak Country
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lets put this in a simple sequence;
1-Car felt fine before rebuild.
2-Rebuild was exclusive to the front end, no rear end work was done (? question because you didn't address this specifically).
3-The drive to the shop felt fine but not perfect(? because you didn't address this specifically).
4-alignment shop changed ride height, then reset height, then peformed alignment.
5-Drive after the alignment feels sloppy.
I'd say that contingent upon the answer to #3, the shop may have forgotten to tighten something back down after the set up was achieved. Since the tech demonstrated that he was not fully listening to your directions initially, he may have rushed through the rest of the work and forgotten to torque everything back down and once you pulled out of the bay, the setting changed. This loose part could be tight enough that you can't move it by hand, but it is not tight enough to hold a load.
If it felt this way on your drive to the shop, then something you replaced was not seated correctly or you didn't torque things down enough during re-assembly.
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Re: my car feels drunk.
[Re: boydsdodge]
#1253264
06/21/12 02:21 AM
06/21/12 02:21 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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Rotate your tires for the heck of it.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: my car feels drunk.
[Re: Dan@Hotchkis]
#1253266
06/23/12 02:31 PM
06/23/12 02:31 PM
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 369
California, USA!!!
WheelsUp73
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 369
California, USA!!!
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Quote:
Quote:
I had it all set to where I wanted but he went changing things on the height until I told him I was at the height I wanted,then he had to put it back to my height I had originally.
The struts I had set to what I measured square, but he said needed a half turn and one turn,
He called it a custom job so I had to pay.
The front feels great for solo runs but higher up in speed its a drunk.
Could this be bump steer? Maybe too tall a side wall? Maybe but it felt better before rebuild.
Seat of the pants feels like the rear end is moving fore and aft cause it's own steering input.
All is tight back there.
With what you are describing it could be a variety of factors. First things I would check:
-every thing he touched is tightened back down
-ensure hub bearings and all ball joints are still tight
-rear axle is square with front, may be that the rear axle is canted front to rear (check trueness of wheels back there too)
-double check the toe, sounds like handling of the car when I run a lot of toe out for tighter autocross, then try to drive it home.
Sounds like a toe out problem to me.
Here is a vid of the frontend of my car. No death wobble here and the car at 130 plus is as stable as it gets.
My car wandered around a bit before the rebuild of the front end.
I use a nylon lower control arm bushing and the uppers are heim joints,
http://youtu.be/LWD9sbw_UWk
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Re: my car feels drunk.
[Re: boydsdodge]
#1253268
06/23/12 07:20 PM
06/23/12 07:20 PM
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 757
Toronto, Ont, Canada
boydsdodge
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 757
Toronto, Ont, Canada
|
Quote:
1974 Swinger, rebuilt front suspension, not very old rear suspension.
Here is what I have.
Reinforced welded K/Frame,Firm Feel adjustable strut rods,
reinforced lower control arms with rubber bushings, 11 3/4 front disc brakes,1 1/16th front sway bar,.98 torsion bars, C-body tie rod ends,
rebuilt steering box with a supposed firmer feel,
urethane strut and sway bar bushings,
Bilstien shocks, welded in 2x3 sub frame connectors through the floor,
235/60/15 Yokohama front, 255/60,15 Yokohama rear,
older Mopar performance extra heavy duty rear springs with front hanger flipped,
all new bushings urethane shackle bushings.
The car was driving fine before the rebuild, but I thought I would make some improvements and preventative maintenance, now after the rebuild when I am on the highway taking an off ramp mostly wide left my cars rear feels as if its got it's own steering going on back there and the faster I get from 40 MPH my steering box feels empty up center wider and wider with speed.
I can't just hold steady on the ramp like I was able to do before and it's actually a bit scary in traffic all moving at speed of 60 to 75 Mph.
What did I do wrong or what do you guys think might be wrong?
Ask for more info if needed.
Also had a $200.00 alignment because he had to adjust strut rods, and torsion bars.
Man it's hard to find a good intelligent alignment shop around here.
Alignment specs are:
5deg positive caster
1/2deg neg camber
1/16th toe in
25" to top of front wheel well,
5.25" inch to bottom of K Frame.
8.75" to bottom of lower ball joint.
almost forgot, I also get the feeling of torque steer when I hit throttle during highway drive.
Thanks.
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