Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: robnbird]
#1230265
05/10/12 04:38 PM
05/10/12 04:38 PM
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,019 Finland
mafo
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,019
Finland
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I take the covers off after every single round, and check springs every fifth or so, things happen on these motors and you need to keep an eye on things. hope it works out for you
-65 Valiant,420", all motor,2700#, dot tires, 8,42 @ 160,2
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: mafo]
#1230266
05/10/12 04:54 PM
05/10/12 04:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456 Out West
408strokerdart
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
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Quote:
I take the covers off after every single round, and check springs every fifth or so, things happen on these motors and you need to keep an eye on things. hope it works out for you
This thing had a very slow lobe. 36 degrees difference from .020 to .050. Not the aggressive lobes run by so many. This is a bracket motor and we have run three rounds within 15 -20 minutes before so running the valves after every pass just isn't practical. We can put 20 passes on it in 2 days of racing....especially if double entered. I thought lashing the valves every 20 passes was a pretty safe number with this mild cam. New profile is more aggressive so I will change this routine to suit.
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: robnbird]
#1230268
05/10/12 06:13 PM
05/10/12 06:13 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 210 mass,usa
sickhemi
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 210
mass,usa
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the builder is responsible for telling the customer what he will and won't use for parts in the engine.i,m sure ryan knew he was building an 8000 rpm bracket motor and if he had a problem with the parts he should have and i think he would refused to use them. would anybody here use eagle i- beam rods in a 8000 rpm bracket motor? you would if you didn't know any better. the engine builder has the final say in the matter. the engine obviously had some problems from being assembled with clearances or parts that you would not find in the builders own engine.
Last edited by sickhemi; 05/10/12 06:51 PM.
1968 gts 355 r3 six speed efi with irs in progress and 1969 convt 440 stage 6 efi 5spd dana
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: TrWaters]
#1230270
05/10/12 09:02 PM
05/10/12 09:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 914 tn
robnbird
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 914
tn
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Quote:
"The biggest reason I didn't contact Ryan was that I was originally taking the heads off for an upgraded port and only seen the lifter parts. Figured that I was going to replace them anyway and yes they were used so why would Ryan do anything about that? The rest of the findings were progressive and got expensive quickly."
So how many passes were made with the broken roller? You didnt detect a skip or a drop in performance? Alrighty.
If john force blows a motor who cares but at the local tracks I hate to see a racer loose a motor. valve train is no place to save money. All im saying as a racing engine builder I would NOT build a motor and let it leave my shop with inferior parts. especially valve train. But worse has happened. Im sure this is a good experience for anyone who has followed this post. If building a RACE motor never skimp and use a builder who is very disciplined. Used parts mabe ok for street hot rod , but never a good idea for serious racing. Plus how much can you save on used lifters ( if that was the problem ). Its just to bad for everyone, but especially the racer. he is out for $6500. Im out of here , good luck in the future.
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: MoparBilly]
#1230271
05/10/12 09:59 PM
05/10/12 09:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,695 nc
emarine01
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 3,695
nc
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Quote:
I don't even trust my wife, and I sleep with her every night...trust my engine builder, uhh no, but I still expect to get quality service for my money...
..... ..... ..... now that I have injected some bad humor, Hears my ...... I feel for the OP on a failed engine... but maybe used rollers were not a good choice.... I also feel for all the Moparts people who will probably not benefit from RJs future posts... I know that I have learned a lot over the years and I thank him for that
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: TrWaters]
#1230274
05/11/12 12:07 AM
05/11/12 12:07 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456 Out West
408strokerdart
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
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Quote:
"The biggest reason I didn't contact Ryan was that I was originally taking the heads off for an upgraded port and only seen the lifter parts. Figured that I was going to replace them anyway and yes they were used so why would Ryan do anything about that? The rest of the findings were progressive and got expensive quickly."
So how many passes were made with the broken roller? You didnt detect a skip or a drop in performance? Alrighty.
This engine didn't make any strange noise. I was more surprised than anyone that it sounded fine. Never so much as a pop or mis fire down track and BTW, the last pass it made was it's quickest by almost .10 in the 1/8th mile. It gave me no reason to suspect anything, but it wouldn't have made many more before being catastrophic.
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: CHAPPER]
#1230275
05/11/12 12:21 AM
05/11/12 12:21 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 914 tn
robnbird
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 914
tn
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Quote:
I read your response, you state "by looking at the invoice..". I keep notes the whole time I am building an engine, as to any problems, things I have doubts/questions about, etc. It is not on a computer, it is hand written, dated, hour of the day, etc. This has saved me alot of problems over the years. If a customer has a problem with something, or thinks he is having a problem with something, or sees something a year later that he thinks is becoming a problem, I can look back at my notes and usually have a good idea what is happening. I am not busting anybody's chops here, just saying that I need more information than their old invoice when I talk to them. You can be 'REAL' sure, if any used parts, supplied by the customer, were involved in my builds, there will be notes to show that and any reccomendations I gave at the time. Hope this all works out. I have always said, "satisfied customers are never heard from, but, one unhappy customer is heard 'round the world".
EXACTLY
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: mafo]
#1230276
05/11/12 10:05 AM
05/11/12 10:05 AM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 914 tn
robnbird
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 914
tn
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Quote:
I take the covers off after every single round, and check springs every fifth or so, things happen on these motors and you need to keep an eye on things. hope it works out for you
any new motor should be checked very close just to find any booboos.
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: robnbird]
#1230277
05/11/12 10:11 AM
05/11/12 10:11 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I use to check the lash every few rounds when the engine was new... after the first lash its never changed... now days I check it 2 times a season... still hasnt changed... if it keeps changing there is a problem
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#1230279
05/11/12 04:13 PM
05/11/12 04:13 PM
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 914 tn
robnbird
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 914
tn
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Quote:
If you are paying your hard earned money to an engine builder for a complete ready to go engine I would expect that things are machined and assembled correctly. In this case that is not what happened. Parts failures happen, but errors and damaged parts caused from incorrect machining, or incorrect assembly or lack of attention to detail are unacceptable. I know when we do work for customers if it is not right we make it right, at the agreed cost. Even if that means we do not make any money on the job. Right is right period.
A good name is able to be chosen.
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: 408strokerdart]
#1230282
05/12/12 01:20 PM
05/12/12 01:20 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595 On the south side of Nowhere
S/ST 3040
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,595
On the south side of Nowhere
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I've been following this story since I bought what was left of Brian's W-5 short block. I've learned several things about this "race engine business" over the years. Some, at my expense. Some, at the expense of others. Most, from observation. When you pay to have a job done and it doesn't get done correctly, it's been my thought that it won't be done correctly for FREE. I've also came to the conclusion, most successful class racers build their own engines for a reason. You can't hardly pay some people enough to care about your engine. I don't mind being a non-conformist.
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Re: Should you be able to trust your engine builder?
[Re: S/ST 3040]
#1230283
05/12/12 01:29 PM
05/12/12 01:29 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,401 Pa
Hot 340
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,401
Pa
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Quote:
You can't hardly pay some people enough to care about your engine.
But you do work for other people's engines right? If this REALLY is your philosophy, why should I trust you with building an engine or doing a simple valve job?
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