Good place to work if you're going to give it a swing Ken. I'd pm Whitedart and maybe see if you can get his phone number.... might be a bit of a long conversation. If you search the site you can find some of his older posts that mention some of the issues he ran into. I also noted in an earlier post that qwkmopardan had said he had gotten a 59 degree Ritter/ebrock deal running. Might be worth asking him. As noted Rickraw had one and got his money back. I also know another gentleman in Michigan that dumped money into one and gave up. I was dangerously close to going the Ritter route in 12, but was "swayed" by a few to go R3 since I work at a dealer.