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Re: B1 Orignals Vs B1 MC's
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#861074
11/25/10 01:05 AM
11/25/10 01:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,372
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,372
Las Vegas
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Well here is what my current 525" B1MC motor manages to do. My 2850lb turd has been 167.84mph(1622' DA)all out and has been as fast as 157 at 10.90. Single 4 with oval ported MC's. You do the math and tell me what HP it makes, I already have the dyno sheets. It went 160 in the 3300+ lb 10.5 car it was in before. Have not had a chance to run it since we made some changes(cam and compression) but I dont expect any significant differences with the way it is now. I too can only share what I have experienced. My last set of B1 originals flowed what the bench said they flowed. They were between 415-420 on two benches. The car they were in weighed 3470lbs and went 149 with a single 4 on a 10.5" tire. Dont have the DA but it was in the summer so for here that is typically 2200-3000'. Pretty basic combo of parts that seem to do ok for what it was. I do agree it is very difficult to compare one head to another. The combos will never be the same, at least if you are trying to maximize power they wont. But then again I am a backyard hack at best so what do I know 
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: B1 Orignals Vs B1 MC's
[Re: PETE@BESTMACHINE]
#861077
11/25/10 01:26 PM
11/25/10 01:26 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 573
PA
68CudaB1
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 573
PA
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Quote:
I will do the math for you, Pro systems has a racing calculator on his web site that seems to work well. Lets see what it says. 3300 lbs at 160 1069 HP, 2850 at 167.84 1065 HP your engine. 3470 at 149 907 HP your old car. My PSO 588 engine 2400 lbs 186.92 1239 HP. I was at Route 66 when I ran that and it was 4000 DA. What all this means is its the combination of parts that make the differance. My PSO heads are a big jump from the M/C head and is the best inline wedge head. The Preadtor head should be a lot better but so far it has not be the case in the cars I have seen using them. We have two to dyno at the shop, one a 588 and one a 636. The 588 is going to be a close test against my PSO engine, same CI, 55MM cams, Sheet metal intakes, dry sump oiling system and iron blocks. The TS head  I have yet is see run better than whats out there and push rod angle and clearance, lets get real. It needs its own block and the flow numbers are not what you think. For a all out TS/TD engine I am working on a better deal than whats out there.
Are you guys doing any more PSO's? Heard you sold the last pair in stock 
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Re: B1 Orignals Vs B1 MC's
[Re: PETE@BESTMACHINE]
#861078
11/25/10 01:55 PM
11/25/10 01:55 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,372
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,372
Las Vegas
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So you make 170ish more HP than mine does. With 63 more cubes, one more carb, a dry sump, and I am VERY sure a LOT more cam than I have. I have no doubt that your PSO's are VERY VERY good heads. Mine is by no means maxed out now, the cam is fairly mild for what it is and we certainly could up the compression a good bit. Criminy my intake is not even ported, but a B1 intake is pretty big to begin with. FWIW my heads flowed 460cfm on Mike Dukes bench and 464 here locally when we freshened it up recently. I feel pretty confident that if I were to build a max effort 588 with my current heads yours would not be so far ahead of mine in the end. Just speculation of course but let us ponder the question. I am 63 cubes down on your PSO motor, no dry sump, no sheet metal intake and extra dominator. So how much more power can I make with these additions? Care to speculate? Do you disagree? I am not sure I could justify the added expense of the PSO head given the Predator is out there at a similar price point. I know what is in my current heads, which were hand ported. Not knocking the PSO head, I know you guys put a lot of time, money and effort in to reviving/reinventing/designing the PSO and should be applauded and commended for your efforts. From what I get out of your post you are stating I have no idea what I am talking about. Maybe I am taking it wrong but to quote you "It is posts like this that are full of wrong information. Have any of the people on this post even seen any of the B-1 Heads?" I can only assume it was at least partially aimed my direction. If you feel I sated something incorrect I cant help that I guess. But I stand by what I posted then and now. You asked the question "How much power and how fast are the cars of the people with all the answers on this post" I posted my numbers and you did the math. Pretty close to what the dyno said. I never made any claim about the PSO head, never seen one, never been around one so have no way to make any comparison as I choose not to go as much by what people claim as what I have seen with my own eyes. lastly I have great respect for what you guys do. Just becuase I am not a professional engine builder does not mean I am totally clueless. The current engine I have is the first one I have ever had that I had someone build. At the power level I am at I feel more comfortable having someone else assemble it. My choice. Happy Thanksgiving 
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: B1 Orignals Vs B1 MC's
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#861079
11/25/10 02:19 PM
11/25/10 02:19 PM
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,200
UK
602heavy
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,200
UK
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Quote:
From what I get out of your post you are stating I have no idea what I am talking about. Maybe I am taking it wrong but to quote you "It is posts like this that are full of wrong information.
Right that's it , gonna put all you guys on 'ignore this user' , keyboard jockeys.
Sorry guys just could'nt resist  ...only messin around.
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Re: B1 Orignals Vs B1 MC's
[Re: HEMI472]
#861083
11/25/10 02:51 PM
11/25/10 02:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,372
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,372
Las Vegas
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No worries here Pete. Hope you have a great Thanksgiving and good luck next year on the race front!
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: B1 Orignals Vs B1 MC's
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#861084
11/25/10 08:29 PM
11/25/10 08:29 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
camastomcat
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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This may be BS, but, I have been told that the canted valve predator head has an advantage over the PSO because of the intake-exhaust simetrical design vs the inline design. People have commented that when you try to make 1200HP, you have a hard time keepng heads gaskets in it. So...what's your take on it? I have been disappointed with some of the predator motors performance, but just thought maybe it was the porting. I don't profess to be an engine builder either, but would like to know, and are you still selling the PSO's? I am still contemplating my next move when I'm done with the B1 originals, but my dragster has run 7.33@183 in Vegas although I'm sucking this weekend. Happy Thanksgiving all!
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Re: B1 Orignals Vs B1 MC's
[Re: PETE@BESTMACHINE]
#861087
11/26/10 04:36 PM
11/26/10 04:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,624
Orange County, Ca.
B1CUDA
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,624
Orange County, Ca.
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Don't know if I have a right to chime in here, but, since I was the original owner, and was the one that made the decision to oval port Al Alguire's B1-MC's, I can atest to the flow and dyno numbers, at least, when I owned that engine. One thing that cracks me up about the people on this board, which is why I try NOT to post on here anymore, is the fact that everybody is always puffing out their chests, with flow numbers and dyno numbers??? Put the damn thing in a car, and see what you are really made of. I could care less if my old B1 motor made 2000 HP, if I would have put a stock converter and a 2.76 pegleg behind it, than the pretty 2000 HP number is thrown out the window. If the PSO was available when I built my engine, I would have certainly used them, but, they weren't, so I did what I thought was best, in Oval porting my heads. Good decision? Yep. Any regrets? nope. Happy that they have held up just fine for Al? Absolutley. Back to my cave....... 
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Re: B1 Orignals Vs B1 MC's
[Re: B1CUDA]
#861088
11/26/10 04:45 PM
11/26/10 04:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
Chris'sBarracuda
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
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Quote:
Don't know if I have a right to chime in here, but, since I was the original owner, and was the one that made the decision to oval port Al Alguire's B1-MC's, I can atest to the flow and dyno numbers, at least, when I owned that engine. One thing that cracks me up about the people on this board, which is why I try NOT to post on here anymore, is the fact that everybody is always puffing out their chests, with flow numbers and dyno numbers??? Put the damn thing in a car, and see what you are really made of. I could care less if my old B1 motor made 2000 HP, if I would have put a stock converter and a 2.76 pegleg behind it, than the pretty 2000 HP number is thrown out the window. If the PSO was available when I built my engine, I would have certainly used them, but, they weren't, so I did what I thought was best, in Oval porting my heads. Good decision? Yep. Any regrets? nope. Happy that they have held up just fine for Al? Absolutley.
Back to my cave.......
Probably because Duke and Pettis aren't "Mopar" guys, so they couldn't possibly make those numbers if the die hard Mopar engine builders have trouble doing it.. 
Now.. Go eat more turkey, and get back to the ER..  Not your cave.. 
Chris..
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Re: B1 Orignals Vs B1 MC's
[Re: Chris'sBarracuda]
#861089
11/26/10 04:56 PM
11/26/10 04:56 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,624
Orange County, Ca.
B1CUDA
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,624
Orange County, Ca.
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Quote:
Quote:
Don't know if I have a right to chime in here, but, since I was the original owner, and was the one that made the decision to oval port Al Alguire's B1-MC's, I can atest to the flow and dyno numbers, at least, when I owned that engine. One thing that cracks me up about the people on this board, which is why I try NOT to post on here anymore, is the fact that everybody is always puffing out their chests, with flow numbers and dyno numbers??? Put the damn thing in a car, and see what you are really made of. I could care less if my old B1 motor made 2000 HP, if I would have put a stock converter and a 2.76 pegleg behind it, than the pretty 2000 HP number is thrown out the window. If the PSO was available when I built my engine, I would have certainly used them, but, they weren't, so I did what I thought was best, in Oval porting my heads. Good decision? Yep. Any regrets? nope. Happy that they have held up just fine for Al? Absolutley.
Back to my cave.......
Probably because Duke and Pettis aren't "Mopar" guys, so they couldn't possibly make those numbers if the die hard Mopar engine builders have trouble doing it..
Now.. Go eat more turkey, and get back to the ER.. Not your cave..
Chris..
Amen, my friend, Amen.
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Re: B1 Orignals Vs B1 MC's
[Re: B1CUDA]
#861090
11/26/10 06:36 PM
11/26/10 06:36 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169
Virginia Beach, VA
Old School
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169
Virginia Beach, VA
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Quote:
Don't know if I have a right to chime in here, but, since I was the original owner, and was the one that made the decision to oval port Al Alguire's B1-MC's, I can atest to the flow and dyno numbers, at least, when I owned that engine. One thing that cracks me up about the people on this board, which is why I try NOT to post on here anymore, is the fact that everybody is always puffing out their chests, with flow numbers and dyno numbers??? Put the damn thing in a car, and see what you are really made of. I could care less if my old B1 motor made 2000 HP, if I would have put a stock converter and a 2.76 pegleg behind it, than the pretty 2000 HP number is thrown out the window. If the PSO was available when I built my engine, I would have certainly used them, but, they weren't, so I did what I thought was best, in Oval porting my heads. Good decision? Yep. Any regrets? nope. Happy that they have held up just fine for Al? Absolutley.
Back to my cave.......
i know i'm nobody....but you are right, there are some big azz ego,s around here. 
68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME)
70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!
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Re: B1 Orignals Vs B1 MC's
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#861092
11/26/10 10:19 PM
11/26/10 10:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,372
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,372
Las Vegas
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Hey I was just trying to help..But maybe I should have kept my opinion to myself and stayed in my hole. FWIW No I dont think making 170 more HP at this level is easy. However, I feel pretty confident that my engine guy could make some pretty good steam with a 588 and my current heads if I were to turn him loose. Then again maybe not. Afterall He does do all this work in his parents backyard, for that matter my car was built in a garage. No wonder it is such a turd 
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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