|
Re: Fuel Injection vs. Carburetor BB
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#752100
07/19/10 04:24 PM
07/19/10 04:24 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
Mopar_Rich
top fuel
|
top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,938
Sonora CA
|
Quote:
I looked at those parts you listed and is there a kit for a port injection setup rather than a TB setup?
The EZ for port injection is exactly that. All the port injected EZ system is, is the ECU and harnesses. You still need a normal TB and the port injection manifold.
Quote:
Where are the injectors on that TB setup you listed? Are they below those mini fuel rails?
Yes. I think the photos of the EZ system are fairly easy to see where the injectors are. They are pointing down at an angle
Quote:
Is EZ's EFI systems a closed loop system that uses sensors and what not to do self adjustments rather than having to constantly adjust an analog computer?
That's precisely what it is. You should go to my site and print out the EZ info. It runs in closed loop and is constantly learning as you drive.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel Injection vs. Carburetor BB
[Re: fox]
#752101
07/19/10 04:33 PM
07/19/10 04:33 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
Fury Fan
master
|
master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
|
Quote:
The only thing FI can do that a carb can't is to be able to make changes rapidly.
Yeah, but that's not 1 thing, that's like 1000 things - per second. 
EFI can turn the fuel off completely on a downhill coast, then turn it on so seamlessly that you'd never know -- unless you saw it on the AF or MPG gauge. There's a 1/2 mile long hill on the highway where I usually get 150+ mpg for 30 secs. Try that with a carb. With a carb you're at closed throttle, high vacuum, and pulling fuel thru the idle circuit.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel Injection vs. Carburetor BB
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#752102
07/19/10 04:36 PM
07/19/10 04:36 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
Fury Fan
master
|
master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,533
Indiana
|
Quote:
I looked at those parts you listed and is there a kit for a port injection setup rather than a TB setup? I looked at the last set you listed and it looks like just a wiring harness and some computer stuff.
I have not yet seen any port-EFI intakes for 383/400 engines. Getting a manifold modified will be your only option.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel Injection vs. Carburetor BB
[Re: fox]
#752103
07/19/10 04:52 PM
07/19/10 04:52 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
Too Many Posts
|
Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
|
Quote:
The only thing FI can do that a carb can't is to be able to make changes rapidly.
I have a running bet with people around here that I can take a factory fuel injection off of a modern car, put a carb on it and get better mileage. No one will take me up on it, but they say I'm crazy.
( factory FI keeps the A/F ratio at 14.4 , i can tune a carb near 15.5 for mileage.)
If you understand how a carb works you can tune any stumble out of it.
I agree a carb can be tuned well, however an aftermarket efi system can be tuned to run at whatever cruise a/f you want. The OEM is stuck on 14.7 stoic because they have emissions standards to meet. I would guess you could tune a port efi system more lean than a carb if you have an intake manifold with low cylinder-to-cylinder airflow variances. You could have the same a/f ratio in each cylinder instead of dealing with the wet AND dry flow variances a carb intake experiences. 
|
|
|
Re: Fuel Injection vs. Carburetor BB
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#752105
07/19/10 05:29 PM
07/19/10 05:29 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583
San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird
OP
mopar
|
OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583
San Antonio, TX
|
I would of done a poll on this but I can't figure out how to set one up.
Project War Bird:
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
383 4 speed with air conditioning
GY3 Curious yellow
All original
|
|
|
Re: Fuel Injection vs. Carburetor BB
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#752106
07/19/10 05:44 PM
07/19/10 05:44 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 319
Denver
Explodo
enthusiast
|
enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 319
Denver
|
A possible issue depending on your EFI fuel system PSI and car: A good fuel pump. The fuel system has been the biggest pain on mine. The EFI system itself isn't any trouble at all. I'm running a Mass-flo EFI system and have an Anderson Ford Motorsport computer to put on when I put it all back together because I hate that the Mass-flo system gives you zero feedback. The fuel system I've ended up with as an Aeromotive a1000 stealth sump built into a stock tank.
'67 440 Satellite
|
|
|
Re: Fuel Injection vs. Carburetor BB
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#752107
07/19/10 06:01 PM
07/19/10 06:01 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,481
Mesa, AZ
Pat_Whalen
super gas
|
super gas
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,481
Mesa, AZ
|
Quote:
You won't gain one HP w/ FI and w/ well tuned carb that is correct for you application you won't suffer any drivablity problems either. EFI is nice but VERY expensive. any gain in MPGs (and who cares about that) would be so small it'd take you 10 years to get your money back. Unless you have a boosted car EFI is a waste of money
I know you're a huge proponent of carbs, and voice your opinion every time this debate comes up.
What I'd like is a definition of "drivability".
I consider the ability to drive from 10' above sea level to 7000' above sea level and have the engine perform (economy and power) exactly the same in both locations to be drivability. Show me a carb that can do that, and I'll agree there are no differences.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel Injection vs. Carburetor BB
[Re: Pat_Whalen]
#752108
07/19/10 06:45 PM
07/19/10 06:45 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck
Not enough dumb comments...yet
|
Not enough dumb comments...yet
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
|
Quote:
Quote:
You won't gain one HP w/ FI and w/ well tuned carb that is correct for you application you won't suffer any drivablity problems either. EFI is nice but VERY expensive. any gain in MPGs (and who cares about that) would be so small it'd take you 10 years to get your money back. Unless you have a boosted car EFI is a waste of money
I know you're a huge proponent of carbs, and voice your opinion every time this debate comes up.
What I'd like is a definition of "drivability".
I consider the ability to drive from 10' above sea level to 7000' above sea level and have the engine perform (economy and power) exactly the same in both locations to be drivability. Show me a carb that can do that, and I'll agree there are no differences.
You represent a small minority of car people who an EFI set-up would help, although you can tune a carb as well.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel Injection vs. Carburetor BB
[Re: Mr.Yuck]
#752109
07/19/10 06:52 PM
07/19/10 06:52 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,481
Mesa, AZ
Pat_Whalen
super gas
|
super gas
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 4,481
Mesa, AZ
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You won't gain one HP w/ FI and w/ well tuned carb that is correct for you application you won't suffer any drivablity problems either. EFI is nice but VERY expensive. any gain in MPGs (and who cares about that) would be so small it'd take you 10 years to get your money back. Unless you have a boosted car EFI is a waste of money
I know you're a huge proponent of carbs, and voice your opinion every time this debate comes up.
What I'd like is a definition of "drivability".
I consider the ability to drive from 10' above sea level to 7000' above sea level and have the engine perform (economy and power) exactly the same in both locations to be drivability. Show me a carb that can do that, and I'll agree there are no differences.
You represent a small minority of car people who an EFI set-up would help, although you can tune a carb as well.
Agreed. I wouldn't call it a small percentage, but a minority. I'm sure there are plenty of people who drive in a situation where they don't realize their carburetor is performing less than optimally.
If there is an arbitrary number (lets say 10) of things that a fuel delivery system should accomplish, optimally you'd like to see all 10 of those things be at their highest available values. And while there is a concession of initial system cost with EFI, there is no way that a carburetor can come close to matching it in all facets of the system. You could tune in 20 times a day and still not get it as mathematically perfect as an intelligent circuit would.
What is the potential negative of EFI, other than initial cost? I know you often cite complexity, but in reality, thats a misnomer. Hoping you've got the right combinations of screws turns in, rods bent, etc with a carb application is much less precise and can be considered much more complex than an electronic "on/off" and open modulation of air.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel Injection vs. Carburetor BB
[Re: CurYellowBird]
#752110
07/19/10 06:57 PM
07/19/10 06:57 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi
Penguin-hating Ginger
|
Penguin-hating Ginger
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
|
Quote:
I would of done a poll on this but I can't figure out how to set one up.
|
|
|
Re: Fuel Injection vs. Carburetor BB
[Re: Neil]
#752115
07/19/10 08:03 PM
07/19/10 08:03 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
|
Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
|
I had a nice running carb on my 440 before I went turbo. I put lots of time into the carb making it as perfect as it could be. All I had to do was hit the starter and it'd fire up every time.
If I wanted to lean it out to get better mileage, performance suffered. If I fattened it up to get power then drivability issues would arise and mileage dropped.
I was perfectly happy with the setup.
After going turbo, I fought with carbs. That never worked out for me so I went EFI.
As far as I'm concerned, I'll stick with EFI. You could say I'm fuel infected if you like but I'm happy with it.
I can lean it out as much as I like on the highway and still be fat and happy under power. There is simply no comparison.
There are better units than mine out there. They have more features and options. However, mine can still do the following:
1) Run any fuel air ratio I need at any rpm and manifold pressure (vacuum or boost)
2) Shut off fuel when coasting
3) Adjust timing for cruise, acceleration, coasting, boost, or vacuum
4) Adjust for hot or cold starts
5) Prime fuel system for any length of time desired
6) Display rpm, temperature, timing, manifold vacuum, level of detonation (if any), battery voltage, air/fuel ratio, throttle position, and fuel timing all in one screen
7) Knock sensor will detect any level of detonation and adjust fuel/spark immediately
8) Soft rpm limiter that pulls as much timing as I want, dropping the rpm any amount I want at the speed I want
9) Hard rpm limiter that cuts fuel for a banging style limiter
10) Hard limiter can be used as a two step box with a soft limiter on the top end
11) Cooling fan on/off where I want
12) Control a turbo wastegate
13) Control nitrous solenoids
14) Trigger a shift light
15) Record every sensor and engine function for any reasonable amount of time and play it back as fast or slow as I want
16) Print out graphics from the datalog
17) Download the datalog into spreadsheets so you can view them later.
18) You can adjust the tune while driving
19) Tune the car from the front seat instead of reaching across spinning fan blades and scorching headers
20) Upload an entirely new tune in less than 30 seconds if you want to run race gas
21) Automatically adjust for a tank of "bad gas"
It'll do other stuff as well but that's what I can think of off the top of my head.
Will your carburetor and distributor do all that for you?
Gimme EFI! I'm not afraid of change.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
|
|
|
Re: Fuel Injection vs. Carburetor BB
[Re: feets]
#752116
07/19/10 08:42 PM
07/19/10 08:42 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583
San Antonio, TX
CurYellowBird
OP
mopar
|
OP
mopar
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 583
San Antonio, TX
|
That EZ-EFI system really seems to be the best one for my planned setup and it's simple enough compared to holley's projunk.
My other option I'm looking into is swapping out the factory 4 speed for a 5 speed and then going with a 440. At that point it should be a little easier to find a port injection setup for a 440. But the costs and looks of the EZ-EFI is definately appealing.
Anyone know if you can use a stock dual snorkel air cleaner and edelbrock rpm intake with this setup without having hood clearance issues? I think since the TB is shorter than a carb I should have plenty of clearance....hopefully.
Project War Bird:
1971 Plymouth Roadrunner
383 4 speed with air conditioning
GY3 Curious yellow
All original
|
|
|
|
|
