Quote:

---

I tested a 2 barrel holley projection kit on my sbc 350 that had a decent summit cam and the other aftermarket goodies. The thing was a complete pain in the a** from the start, ran rich, and wouldn't tune well with the analog computer.

It had excellent torque response, but even while tuning it, it would stay rich. I think the biggest issue was it was an open circuit EFI and not a closed circuit with all the sensors and what not.

MPG didn't seem to change at all. If anything I swapped back to my edelbrock carb cause the EFI was putting my MPG into the ground.

---

Quote:

---

That EZ-EFI looks nice.
I was also looking at EFI for my BB but because of the $ I bought a new 830CFM annular, mechanical secondary Speed Demon (with all replaceable jets). Using the LMI A/F meter to properly tune it, it starts better than my modern daily driver. That LMI IS the tool that s required to setup a carb. Reading plugs and other old school methods are JUST that.

---

Quote:

---

I'm looking for mainly opinions on this thread, but also the pros and cons of these two setups.

Of course costs is the REALLY big one and which is more simplistic. Seems like you could always take the costs of an EFI system, get a decent carb and put the rest of the money towards other parts of the car.

Any opinions/info is appreciated.

---

Quote:

---

It was cool feeling a stumble off idle diminish to a smooth running motor with bog no where!

---

Quote:

---

I looked at those parts you listed and is there a kit for a port injection setup rather than a TB setup?

---

Quote:

---

Where are the injectors on that TB setup you listed? Are they below those mini fuel rails?

---

Quote:

---

Is EZ's EFI systems a closed loop system that uses sensors and what not to do self adjustments rather than having to constantly adjust an analog computer?

---

Quote:

---

The only thing FI can do that a carb can't is to be able to make changes rapidly.

---

Yeah, but that's not 1 thing, that's like 1000 things - per second.

EFI can turn the fuel off completely on a downhill coast, then turn it on so seamlessly that you'd never know -- unless you saw it on the AF or MPG gauge. There's a 1/2 mile long hill on the highway where I usually get 150+ mpg for 30 secs. Try that with a carb. With a carb you're at closed throttle, high vacuum, and pulling fuel thru the idle circuit.

Quote:

---

I looked at those parts you listed and is there a kit for a port injection setup rather than a TB setup? I looked at the last set you listed and it looks like just a wiring harness and some computer stuff.

---

Quote:

---

The only thing FI can do that a carb can't is to be able to make changes rapidly.
I have a running bet with people around here that I can take a factory fuel injection off of a modern car, put a carb on it and get better mileage. No one will take me up on it, but they say I'm crazy.

( factory FI keeps the A/F ratio at 14.4 , i can tune a carb near 15.5 for mileage.)

If you understand how a carb works you can tune any stumble out of it.

---

I agree a carb can be tuned well, however an aftermarket efi system can be tuned to run at whatever cruise a/f you want. The OEM is stuck on 14.7 stoic because they have emissions standards to meet. I would guess you could tune a port efi system more lean than a carb if you have an intake manifold with low cylinder-to-cylinder airflow variances. You could have the same a/f ratio in each cylinder instead of dealing with the wet AND dry flow variances a carb intake experiences.

Quote:

---

You won't gain one HP w/ FI and w/ well tuned carb that is correct for you application you won't suffer any drivablity problems either. EFI is nice but VERY expensive. any gain in MPGs (and who cares about that) would be so small it'd take you 10 years to get your money back. Unless you have a boosted car EFI is a waste of money

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

You won't gain one HP w/ FI and w/ well tuned carb that is correct for you application you won't suffer any drivablity problems either. EFI is nice but VERY expensive. any gain in MPGs (and who cares about that) would be so small it'd take you 10 years to get your money back. Unless you have a boosted car EFI is a waste of money

---

I know you're a huge proponent of carbs, and voice your opinion every time this debate comes up.

What I'd like is a definition of "drivability".

I consider the ability to drive from 10' above sea level to 7000' above sea level and have the engine perform (economy and power) exactly the same in both locations to be drivability. Show me a carb that can do that, and I'll agree there are no differences.

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

You won't gain one HP w/ FI and w/ well tuned carb that is correct for you application you won't suffer any drivablity problems either. EFI is nice but VERY expensive. any gain in MPGs (and who cares about that) would be so small it'd take you 10 years to get your money back. Unless you have a boosted car EFI is a waste of money

---

I know you're a huge proponent of carbs, and voice your opinion every time this debate comes up.

What I'd like is a definition of "drivability".

I consider the ability to drive from 10' above sea level to 7000' above sea level and have the engine perform (economy and power) exactly the same in both locations to be drivability. Show me a carb that can do that, and I'll agree there are no differences.

---

You represent a small minority of car people who an EFI set-up would help, although you can tune a carb as well.

---

Quote:

---

I would of done a poll on this but I can't figure out how to set one up.

---

Quote:

---

EZ has nothing to do with timing, all you need is a clean tach signal from your coil ( or a tach signal adapter they supply for stock chrysler ignitions) and your set.

---

I am a complete factory EFI hater. I've been frustrated with the factory efi in my truck since i got it and it's lack of flexibility. It's worthless. Went with a mighty demon.

BUT...EZ EFI in my opinion is the best thing out there for someone who wants almost instant driveability without a masters degree in standalone tuning. Some of those systems are a lot to learn. Some of us dont care to go that far with it because then it becomes work. I'm sure some can relate to that.

In your case where tuning 2 carbs to run together on a tunnel ram can be a PITA, the EZ EFI is definitely the way to go.

You should post a few vids to show how it starts, runs and drives dave. I would really like to see that.

Quote:

---

BUT...EZ EFI in my opinion is the best thing out there for someone who wants almost instant driveability without a masters degree in standalone tuning. Some of those systems are a lot to learn. Some of us dont care to go that far with it because then it becomes work. I'm sure some can relate to that.

---

Quote:

---

that is a good idea.... i just need a video camera... i only take photographs...

---

i'll charge the battery. when ya want to go beat the hell out of that cuda?

Quote:

---

WHO is worried about MPG. I want HP. Does fast ez-efi have anything for a 528 aluminum hemi with 700+ HP.

---

Quote:

---

I think a lot of people have issues with carburetors because ... they buy a new one and take it from the box and bolt it on and then get angry when it doesn't work perfectly.

---

Fully. Just because you dropped $400 on a new carb, does't mean you can plop it on your engine and expect it to be 100% perfect for your application. Was talking to one self-proclaimed gear-head who was complaining about the poor performance of his holley 750 vac carb. The thought never even occured to him to buy a jet kit! Nevermind messing with accelerator pump shots, pump cams, secondary springs, etc.

You want to know why the efi stuff I spent so much money on has sat on the shelf for the past 3 years instead of on my 440? I spent some time tuning the choke and primaries on my thermoquad and got it to the point where any time I drove the car(spring-fall) I could get in the car, give it 3 pumps, hit the key, let it warm for 30 seconds, kick it down and go. The motivation to change to the efi stuff I had is just not there.

Another issue I see is what type of carb to run for what you want out of it. You want driveability, mileage and performance? Then I think you should be looking at spreadbore carbs with a well tuned choke instead of the square bore holleys with the milled choke horn. Really depends on the application IMO.

But you are right, a carb will never adapt and react like an EFI system. That and a port efi never has the wet flow issues which should make start-up smoother.

Quote:

---

Really, if you have a big inch Hemi with 700HP you need to step up to a 'real' FAST EFI type system,not the EZ.

---

Quote:

---

EFI is nice but VERY expensive. any gain in MPGs (and who cares about that) would be so small it'd take you 10 years to get your money back.

---

Quote:

---

In the Sept 2010 edition of "Car Craft" under "whats your problem" they document a problem I've noticed for several years. A cammed engine will throw a wideband oxygen sensor off since the overlap can pass unburned fuel into the exhaust. I started out with a LM1 the LM2 and now run a Autometer wideband O2 sensor in my car. At idle it shows 16:1 (top of the scale) but the instant I touch the accelerator it jumps to 14:1. What this means is that any EFI that goes closed loop at idle is going to be riching the mixture to overcome this seemingly lean condition. This is why all EFI systems come with a preloaded map to get you started. My question on the EZ EFI or any other "learning" system, whats it gonna do at idle.

---

Quote:

---

In the Sept 2010 edition of "Car Craft" under "whats your problem" they document a problem I've noticed for several years. A cammed engine will throw a wideband oxygen sensor off since the overlap can pass unburned fuel into the exhaust. I started out with a LM1 the LM2 and now run a Autometer wideband O2 sensor in my car. At idle it shows 16:1 (top of the scale) but the instant I touch the accelerator it jumps to 14:1. What this means is that any EFI that goes closed loop at idle is going to be riching the mixture to overcome this seemingly lean condition. This is why all EFI systems come with a preloaded map to get you started. My question on the EZ EFI or any other "learning" system, whats it gonna do at idle.

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I'm looking for mainly opinions on this thread, but also the pros and cons of these two setups.

Of course costs is the REALLY big one and which is more simplistic. Seems like you could always take the costs of an EFI system, get a decent carb and put the rest of the money towards other parts of the car.

Any opinions/info is appreciated.

---

CurYellowBird
I can answer any/all questions you may have about the FAST EFI systems, but here's a quick overview of the EZ-EFI system(s):

EZ-EFI TB Pros:
- Easy to install (bolts on instead of a carb)
- No tuning
- It works as advertised
- Great throttle response
- Good drivability, good mileage, good cold start, user can tune the target A/F ratio table as various points (cruise, WOT, etc)

EZ-EFI (TB type) Cons:
- Does not control timing (you use a standard distributor and ignition box)
- Operates in bank-to-bank mode. Not really a draw back because the injectors are in the throttle body.
- Injectors are in TB (wet manifold). Not as "ideal" as port injection.
- Injector sizes limit HP to 550-600 HP for a single TB- No problem if you run two TBs or use the EZ port injected system.
- Requires an EFI fuel system (but any EFI system would)
- Can only drive up to 8 high-Z injectors.

One newer option is the same EZ-EFI ECU but for port injection manifolds. This option gives you more HP capability (8 injectors instead of 4) and the manifold runs dry.

Pricing:
The 30226-kit Single EZ TB (no fuel system components) $1689.
The 30227-kit (30226 kit + fuel system; pump, filters, regulator, etc.) $1945
The 304155 second TB upgrade kit $850
The 302000 EZ-EFI kit for port injection $825

Hope this helps

www.fastmanefi.com

---

Quote:

---

In the Sept 2010 edition of "Car Craft" under "whats your problem" they document a problem I've noticed for several years. A cammed engine will throw a wideband oxygen sensor off since the overlap can pass unburned fuel into the exhaust. I started out with a LM1 the LM2 and now run a Autometer wideband O2 sensor in my car. At idle it shows 16:1 (top of the scale) but the instant I touch the accelerator it jumps to 14:1. What this means is that any EFI that goes closed loop at idle is going to be riching the mixture to overcome this seemingly lean condition. This is why all EFI systems come with a preloaded map to get you started. My question on the EZ EFI or any other "learning" system, whats it gonna do at idle.

---

Quote:

---

How many of you fans of the 'well-tuned' carb have ever put a wideband in your car to see your carb's tuning? I'm betting DaytonaTurbo and only a few others in this thread have done that.

---

Quote:

---

How many of you fans of the 'well-tuned' carb have ever put a wideband in your car to see your carb's tuning? I'm betting DaytonaTurbo and only a few others in this thread have done that.

---

Quote:

---

WHO is worried about MPG. I want HP. Does fast ez-efi have anything for a 528 aluminum hemi with 700+ HP.

---

You'd probably need 4 1200 cc/min or larger injectors for that, maybe 1600 cc/min. Not sure if the FAST system would support that but I'm sure there is a way to do it Unless you went dual EFI TB setup. Just remember the fuel system has to support all that too!

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

You should post a few vids to show how it starts, runs and drives dave. I would really like to see that.

---

That is a sight to see. He reaches in the driver side window to turn the key with his right hand while patting himself on the back with his left.

Quote:

---

Well the pro touring crowd cares about MPG. Sure would suck trying to do long distance driving and having to stop every 150-180 miles (if your lucky) to top off the gas tank.

My goal out of this is power with reliability.

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

You should post a few vids to show how it starts, runs and drives dave. I would really like to see that.

---

That is a sight to see. He reaches in the driver side window to turn the key with his right hand while patting himself on the back with his left.

---

and what's wrong with that ??? my guess is you will do the same once you install yours

I have about 2 weeks of drive time on my car with the EZ EFI kit. I have to say it was the best $$ I EVER spent on this car ... My coronet project will be getting a port injection kit from FAST

Quote:

---

I am a WD and dealer for FAST. I also do tech support and training. My prices are better because I sell a lot of this stuff and (I hate to brag) I EARN the discount.

---

Quote:

---

How many of you fans of the 'well-tuned' carb have ever put a wideband in your car to see your carb's tuning? I'm betting DaytonaTurbo and only a few others in this thread have done that.

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I'm looking for mainly opinions on this thread, but also the pros and cons of these two setups.

Of course costs is the REALLY big one and which is more simplistic. Seems like you could always take the costs of an EFI system, get a decent carb and put the rest of the money towards other parts of the car.

Any opinions/info is appreciated.

---

CurYellowBird
I can answer any/all questions you may have about the FAST EFI systems, but here's a quick overview of the EZ-EFI system(s):

EZ-EFI TB Pros:
- Easy to install (bolts on instead of a carb)
- No tuning
- It works as advertised
- Great throttle response
- Good drivability, good mileage, good cold start, user can tune the target A/F ratio table as various points (cruise, WOT, etc)

EZ-EFI (TB type) Cons:
- Does not control timing (you use a standard distributor and ignition box)
- Operates in bank-to-bank mode. Not really a draw back because the injectors are in the throttle body.
- Injectors are in TB (wet manifold). Not as "ideal" as port injection.
- Injector sizes limit HP to 550-600 HP for a single TB- No problem if you run two TBs or use the EZ port injected system.
- Requires an EFI fuel system (but any EFI system would)
- Can only drive up to 8 high-Z injectors.

One newer option is the same EZ-EFI ECU but for port injection manifolds. This option gives you more HP capability (8 injectors instead of 4) and the manifold runs dry.

Pricing:
The 30226-kit Single EZ TB (no fuel system components) $1689.
The 30227-kit (30226 kit + fuel system; pump, filters, regulator, etc.) $1945
The 304155 second TB upgrade kit $850
The 302000 EZ-EFI kit for port injection $825

Hope this helps

www.fastmanefi.com

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

I'm looking for mainly opinions on this thread, but also the pros and cons of these two setups.

Of course costs is the REALLY big one and which is more simplistic. Seems like you could always take the costs of an EFI system, get a decent carb and put the rest of the money towards other parts of the car.

Any opinions/info is appreciated.

---

CurYellowBird
I can answer any/all questions you may have about the FAST EFI systems, but here's a quick overview of the EZ-EFI system(s):

EZ-EFI TB Pros:
- Easy to install (bolts on instead of a carb)
- No tuning
- It works as advertised
- Great throttle response
- Good drivability, good mileage, good cold start, user can tune the target A/F ratio table as various points (cruise, WOT, etc)

EZ-EFI (TB type) Cons:
- Does not control timing (you use a standard distributor and ignition box)
- Operates in bank-to-bank mode. Not really a draw back because the injectors are in the throttle body.
- Injectors are in TB (wet manifold). Not as "ideal" as port injection.
- Injector sizes limit HP to 550-600 HP for a single TB- No problem if you run two TBs or use the EZ port injected system.
- Requires an EFI fuel system (but any EFI system would)
- Can only drive up to 8 high-Z injectors.

One newer option is the same EZ-EFI ECU but for port injection manifolds. This option gives you more HP capability (8 injectors instead of 4) and the manifold runs dry.

Pricing:
The 30226-kit Single EZ TB (no fuel system components) $1689.
The 30227-kit (30226 kit + fuel system; pump, filters, regulator, etc.) $1945
The 304155 second TB upgrade kit $850
The 302000 EZ-EFI kit for port injection $825

Hope this helps

www.fastmanefi.com

---

I'm an adovcate of EFI, I can't fathom where better fuel control isn't an advantage. That being said How do these systems deal with a tight LSA cam? Most of my exp is with OEM stuff and MAP/Maf systems don't deal well with the low vacuum/erratic pulses of cams with less that 112* CL.

---