Amen fast,you guys made the show,plenty did not.

The "latest & greatest" Hughes grinds are NOT made by Engle, but I'm not sure who's doing the grinding for them now. You can still get the "old" Hughes cams from Engle direct.

BTW, Hughes claims "These new grinds feature very fat lobes with even quicker rates-of-lift for more power, torque and wider, flatter power bands. The solids will have tighter lash which will increase the duration at 0.200" without increasing the duration at 0.050"."

Huh? Perhaps Dave needs to check the at-the-valve lift curves w/ his (or any) cams using different lash settings. Every one I've checked always showed bigger changes in the .020" & .050" durations from changes in the lash setting than at .200" & .300". From what I've seen, he's got it completely backwards, since the .200" value might only show a 1-2 degree increase from reduced lash while the .050" value would go up 3-4 degrees.

Maybe what he's trying to say (and didn't word it well) is the new lobes have larger .200" durations compared to other cams w/ similar .050" durations. However, that's not reflective of the lash setting.

Well said, Fast68. You guys showed up to the fight...he decided the fight was too tough. I like your suggestion to buy from Engle for those that feel the need to get a fast rate cam. They can still get the lobe profile they want without having to go through Hughes. I have spent money with him in the past and really, always had a decent enough experience with him. That being said, he wailed on our EM team with no justification whatsoever. My money now goes elsewhere.

One other thing that I just shared with Fast68. I hadn't told anyone on this board about it but now...what the hell. I have recommended his cams to alot of guys in the club here - South Plains Mopars. After seeing my 340 perform with his 3038 hydraulic cam, many of them have bought Hughes cams. One buddy, bought one of his older grind hydraulics, a bigger one - 4449 I think? Anyways, he bought it on the sale Hughes had going on to clear out inventory for his new grinds. My buddy bought the cam and it was delivered to my work place. I took it home and he came over to get it. There was alot of anticipation in the air as he eagerly opened the box. He pulled it out and the anticipation evaporated...replaced by a silent tension. I stared at the bumpstick for a few minutes...went over to where my buddy was holding it and ran my hand over some lobes...in disbelief. Sitting on my knees, I rocked back on my heels and a feeling of humiliation swept over me. The only thought in my head was WTF is this and WTF is wrong with it?

My buddy looked up and said uhhh.....this ain't right

No kidding - it had something like 12 FREAKING LOBES WIPED Some lobes looked like someone had taken a freaking die grinder with a carbide bit to it. I was so damn embarrassed. He spent his money on this thing I recommended and was sent that pos. It was so damn bad, I was thinking that it was some sort of a test cam where only a few lobes were actually ground correctly and the rest were just whacked off or something. Hell I didn't know.

To be fair, Hughes paid for shipping back and sent in a replacement that was good. He also sent a cap along with it. That gesture was appreciated. I talked to Hughes about it and sure enough - it was a cam that a previous customer had wiped. Dave's story went that the customer didn't lube the cam prior to firing the motor and tried to get it started 4-5 times. I got the impression that they kept the cam up front to say "see what happens when you don't follow directions" kind of like when you are at the video store and they have those melted vhs cassettes with a note that says "see what happens when you leave these in your car".

And...that is what they sent a customer. Yeesh. I was so humiliated.

-LS

Post deleted by ChargerBill

What I find amazing is his total disregard (disdain would be more accurate), of the fact that people work hard for the money they spend on their cars I guess we all truly are scum for wanting to save money and cut a few corners if we can. If only we had known that this would annoy him so (how could we be so thoughtless)! To think that I caused this man grief because I routinely ask vendors “do you have any sales going?”, “do you have any sales coming up?”, “”do you have any open box/returned parts that are discounted?”, and “can I get a discount if I buy “X” number of parts?” When the obvious solution would be to get another full time job so I didn’t have to compromise, or cut corners. I’m such a scumbag!

I am ashamed at myself, and beg forgiveness. I always believed that I would be a student, and amateur till the day I died. I always believed that this was a GOOD thing. That constantly striving for increased knowledge, and hard earned skills, was the path to improvement. However I can now see that I was on the wrong path. Unfortunately for me, and all others (with the exception of Mr. Hughes), I do not know how to find the path that leads directly to Omnipotence. TO THINK that I, an amateur, had the audacity to change my own flat tires over the years, thereby endangering the lives of my family and others, instead of calling out the “Woods Brothers” is unconscionable!

You are right Mr. Hughes! I should not, and will not bother you with any questions, or purchase parts of any kind from you until I reach the level of divine perfection that you so obviously deserve. But I guarantee you that I will only deal with YOU when I reach that pinnacle! Until then I will only ask questions, and give my money to the lower lifeforms that cater to, and offer help to us bottom dweller, internet posting, lowlifes.

PLEASE forgive us for polluting YOUR world with our existence!

I'm here DRAM.

I think everyone has to cool down and put themselves in Dave's shoes. DRAM, remember saying you thought the EM-470 was a make or break for your reputation? And remember I felt the same way? Well what about Dave? He took a a risk. None of us have any idea what kind of feed back he has been hearing about his cams in the EM-470. We all know how rumors start and grow into something that isn't even close to the truth. (Look at some of the assumptions being made on this thread for example.) Maybe he has good reason to gripe. I'm not offended, I understand where he's coming from. What does everyone think about the all Hughes bashing that has been done on this board? Is *that* right? And what can Dave do about it? One can only take so much of that kind of sniping trash talk. I'm sick of it that is for sure, and I'll allow Dave some room to cut loose. I am a student and an amateur, so what can I say? I try to be professional about it though.

I wonder if there are any other cam suppliers who are relieved they didn't supply the EM-470 cam since the lifter bores were so far off only a lame chevy lobe would have worked and in that case the engine would not have made the impressive power it did.

I'm not posting anything more on this thread, if anyone has anything to say to me send a PM.

Now if all of you will excuse me I have an order to place....with Hughes Engines.

Good luck,and yes he deserve's all of this bashing.I have 1st hand experience with this guy and his cam's.When i first ordered one of his cam's he was a prick to me then and when his cam failed twice in my small block he didn't what to hear anything i had to say.More power or we'll buy them back is a bunch of BS.It took almost a year and a half to get money back and it was only half,so i will alway's be pissed at Dave.

Well Jesse all I can say to that is I want you as a close friend, that way I know if I turn into a complete jackass and stab you in the back you'll still be there .

Is it right about people posting feedback from what they got at hughes? YES it is, that is what this board and many like it are all about, normal guys or 'amateurs' trading info and experiences. Is it his fault? YES it is I don't hear bad things posted about comp or crane or crower or scott etc. Yes there are some extenuating circumstances and yes maybe someone will pop off about something that's their fault but to have it happen continually is another thing. What can he do about it? He could come on the board and talk to people. Harold had the balls to, of course no one ever complained about him because he, nor were his products a problem.

And now we all get to SEE his idea of customer service it all fits. If he smells like a jackass, looks like a jackass, acts like a jackass he probably is a JACKASS.

In other words I disagree .

I have a Hugely SB solid for sale!!

Jesse, all would have been fine and well, if he did not come out and finger point, Its not like he was defending himself, he just let it rip, instead of letting it rest, I think we all can live with the fact that some mistakes were made, but the guy signed on as a sponser/team mate, he could have said, we just needed alittle more work, or a few odd circumstances, but no, he called you guys a bunch of chatroom amatures, I may be one, but the EM team was not, maybe im over reacting, because im po'ed, and embarresd for you guys, and maybe John W has done enough nice things for me lately, that it hits abit closer to home. Nuff said, im done too.

I agree wholeheartedly. But instead of the 6500 who look at this site, His belittlement was aimed at the entire planet (scope of the internet). It would have been so easy to turn this into a plus for his company by (as previously stated in another post) cautioning everyone to check clearances and specs, and just because older technology works, new "maximized", "cutting edge" technology requires thoroughness. I know I learned a lesson that I will use.

Would it have killed him to say "hats off to the non professionals that gave the pros a real run for their money and a good scare to boot". And "we'll get em next time for sure". I think it WOULD kill him. It is quite evident that he despises us so much that he is willing to sacrifice his business for his ego. I say let him.

Remember. At any time throughout this thread, he could have come on and said "sorry if I offended or upset anybody, that was not my intention". Instead he shows that it IS his intention by disregarding us. I think this will be (and should be) a deadly business mistake.

My 2 pennys.

I've followed the EM stuff and nowhere did it blame Hughes. PERIOD!

I know enough about engines to be dangerous. So I just sit back and read. Soak it all in.

When I first heard about this thread I was sitting at work and STEFF called. He explained
what Hughes had done , and I stood up for them ....until I read it for myself.. What a tool these people are to commit business suicide on a board that rates second to none in the Moparts world.

Looks like Scotty Brown just got the go-ahaed on buying that Island in the sun....

OH-BOY, E-bay just opened another partition on the E-bay Motors section. It's called
Hughes Engine parts for cheap

You won't be seeing a Hughes cam in my engine this year.......(Damn! Scottys line is busy)