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Re: Really HIGH-WINDING B/RB engine ... ?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#717179
06/05/10 10:33 PM
06/05/10 10:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,875
Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,875
Weddington, N.C.
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No reason it can't be done, I think a destroked 383 crank to ~3.2" with a 2.200 journal and a long 7.100 rod in A 4.375" BORE 400 BLOCK would be a very reliable high-revving bottom head. The pistons would have about a 1.16" CH and could probably be in the 2000-2100G bobweight range. The question is...how much are you willing to spend for valvetrain? You'll want a solid roller with good TD or Jessel valvetrain, milled pedestals with Race W2 Style billet blocks, and you're definatly going to want very high quality lightweight valves an edurance road race style lobe and beehive race springs. I would shoot for an 8200-ish peak power and a 8000-9K limit, that's doable with Typical Max Wedge aluminum head flowing ~380cfm....you can go even higher with a B1 style head but you might as well put in a formula 1 style tack because that combo of parts won't fall out of a tree below about 4000rpm! Let me know when you build it, I've toyed with a high rev B motor combo for years but I couldn't think of a suitable lightweight body to put it in.....although I toyed with dropping one in a Cobra replica   
Last edited by Streetwize; 06/05/10 10:36 PM.
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Re: Really HIGH-WINDING B/RB engine ... ?
[Re: Sport440]
#717182
06/06/10 12:51 PM
06/06/10 12:51 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,157
Bend,OR USA
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Quote:
Quote:
CB .... my thoughts on all this ...is this.
"ALL I want is a boat that will GATE SHOT like a bear."
You want a torque motor with torque pitch 3 or 4 blade prop. They dont slip, they hook.
You dont want a RPM motor with a 2 blade speed prop that cavitates on take off and then hooks and books after a soft take off.
Any B/RB motor will have plenty of torque for you IMO, just prop it accordingly.
For a Lake boat I dont think I would ever try to make a rev motor for a Gate Shot boat.
IMO, some props can hook better in water then our slicks can on pavement. mike 
 I had a IMP Aztec V I/O that had a 14x14 three bladed aluminum prop originally with a 300 C.I. buick V8. I ened up trading a car for it after it had a 350 Chevy installed in it. This was a family boat, not a race boat. I ended up trying four different pitches on two different props, both where the same diameter, style and amount of blades. Going down to 12 pitch made the boat a real dog on take off, the motor would cavitate the prop and it would take forever tp plane  I had the original prop repitch to 16 and ended up buying the 18 pitch prop for it, that boat like more pitch, take off was less dramaitic, it planed quicker and faster and top speed went up for the same RPM  It was a deep V 21 ft that was heavy, light is right and the bottom of the boat condition and design it way more important than the motor power  Buy a race boat if you want to play with the race boys 
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Really HIGH-WINDING B/RB engine ... ?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#717183
06/06/10 06:06 PM
06/06/10 06:06 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOrk !
OP
The village idiot's idiot
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OP
The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
Buy a race boat if you want to play with the race boys
Hey Guyz ...THX to all for food-for-thought. I guess the prob here ... is that I am just-not in most of yours mind-set when it comes to a power-plant.
B1 heads, Jesel valve-train, 572 cubic inches ? .... wasssupy ???  ... LOTS of the stuff I bought for this boat - and the boat itself - I got on eBay ... 
The rotating assembly that I was thinking about using before ...30 over 383 old-school TRW's on rods with a crank AND a set of 452 heads WITH a set of adjustable iron Crane rockers ...I got ON eBay for 55$ ....
HEY ...I know a GOOD MOTOR is going to cost TONS more than this ... but the way things look now ....I am probably going to have to owner-finance the property I have here in order to SELL IT and THEN put down 200-LARGE on some property in FL.
So I gotsta-bee a bit of a cheap-skate here !
Now to CB's quote .... RACE BOYZ ?
Any of you ever been to Key West .... and their SuperBoat races ? .... the boats, babes and BIG-BUCKS would blow yerr mind. I have been there many times ..... and even though most of the stuff is Chebby-powered .. it even-now - gives me goose-bumps thinking about watching those races from on-the-rocks at Fort-Zack state park .... as the FOUR ENGINED boats would go flying by ....30 feet away going 160 mph .... launching off 4 to 6 foot rollers ...
IF you can ever get the opportunity to see it ....do it.
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Re: Really HIGH-WINDING B/RB engine ... ?
[Re: dOrk !]
#717187
06/07/10 12:37 AM
06/07/10 12:37 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
I hear-you on being "heavy" ... that was the reason for this topic. But me thimks I was uNcorrect in my thinking about needing such a high-rpm motor... I thought there was a TON of "slip" at lower speeds.
So ... these TRW's ...with a say a 557 or 590 cam ....should be good for SPURTS of what ?? ....
..... 7800 ?
be lucky to get 5800 out of it in a boat.
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Re: Really HIGH-WINDING B/RB engine ... ?
#717188
06/07/10 02:15 AM
06/07/10 02:15 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOrk !
OP
The village idiot's idiot
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OP
The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
be lucky to get 5800 out of it in a boat.
ONLY 5800 ? ..... such a Silly Boy !! 
...But WHY would you be thinking that I would ONLY be running on the small-PRIMARIES of the ...... ThermoQuad ? ... 
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Re: Really HIGH-WINDING B/RB engine ... ?
#717190
06/07/10 10:36 AM
06/07/10 10:36 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,940
Holly/MI
Dean_Kuzluzski
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,940
Holly/MI
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Not trying to further dump on you here than others have already........... but for all the extra $$ need to run rpm's........ I'd change out that old obsolete gearbox and get a splitcase Casale to run a low rpm RB (440-500 c.i.). It's hard to widen an rpm band more than anyone else has yet in history. Developing the "cake and eat it too" set-up means lots of trial and error gear and prop testing. Engine wear goes up exponentially with rpm. As FL states famous Big Daddy used to say, "it's better to dial back and win consistently than to run out on the ragged edge and break often". 
R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04
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Re: Really HIGH-WINDING B/RB engine ... ?
#717191
06/07/10 01:15 PM
06/07/10 01:15 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOrk !
OP
The village idiot's idiot
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OP
The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
oh, i forgot about you and your thermocrack carbs. in that case make it 5400 rpm max in a boat.
You FORGOT about that ? ...
HAVING another "senior" moment ...huh ? ...
But seriously ...why would you think that those old-school RACE forged pistons have an rpm limit of LESS THAN a OEM factory cast flat-top piston ? ....and WHAT ABOUT a boat would be any diff than in a car?
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Re: Really HIGH-WINDING B/RB engine ... ?
[Re: Dean_Kuzluzski]
#717192
06/07/10 01:36 PM
06/07/10 01:36 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOrk !
OP
The village idiot's idiot
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OP
The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
Not trying to further dump on you here than others have already...........
but for all the extra $$ need to run rpm's........
I'd change out that old obsolete gearbox and get a splitcase Casale to run a low rpm RB (440-500 c.i.).
It's hard to widen an rpm band more than anyone else has yet in history. Developing the "cake and eat it too" set-up means lots of trial and error gear and prop testing.
Engine wear goes up exponentially with rpm.
As FL states famous Big Daddy used to say, "it's better to dial back and win consistently than to run out on the ragged edge and break often".
Why HI ....DeanOsaur !
People DUMPING on me ? .. I don't see-that at all ....'cept maybe DPO ...and in most cases there .. he is just having a "seasoned-citizen" MOMENT(s) !! 
The v-drive box ? ...I wish I had a Casale ... do you know anyone who has one? ... I have been in-touch with Johnsons Speed Whse in Lansing and they said that Dick Lahaie was an expert on V-drives. Do YOU know anything about the "box" I have?
ALL HERE considered so far ... I think that I should just put-together what I have. About all I will be needing is a cam ..... 520 to 600 lift range .... solid lifter ... with a WICKED idle !!
....and it also has to get 20-miles-per-gallon ! (and THIS IS at 'choo ...DPO)
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Re: Really HIGH-WINDING B/RB engine ... ?
[Re: dOrk !]
#717193
06/07/10 02:08 PM
06/07/10 02:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,940
Holly/MI
Dean_Kuzluzski
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,940
Holly/MI
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Hey Doc!  I just don't see the reason to go high RPM HP when we all know BIG torque moves mass. Physics don't lie.  Just build what you got and go from there. Why try to reinvent the wheel. Me, no specific knowledge about the "Thorobred" brand of v-drive gearbox. I did pick up an old "Hemi" gearbox (it stands for Harrington Engineering Manufacturing Industries) for a low-$$ sweet deal at a swapmeet a few years ago. This thing is about 1/3rd larger than the more common splitcase Casale. It looks like it will handle brutal loads of torque & HP. A 500 c.i. wedge with a set of Indy's would work fine for me. 
R.I.P.- Gary "Coop" Davis 02/09/68-05/13/04
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Re: Really HIGH-WINDING B/RB engine ... ?
[Re: Dean_Kuzluzski]
#717194
06/07/10 05:18 PM
06/07/10 05:18 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 588
Franklin, TN
23T Hemmee
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 588
Franklin, TN
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Doc, I can tell you from personal experience. '71 Sanger shovel nose ski hydro, maybe a little lighter than your Stevens, but not much. Pretty decent lake boat with a .060 over ex-NASCAR Hemi with alky Hilborns, ran 121 quarters at mid-10.20's around 8400 with 22% gears and I think (its been 30 years) 11 1/4 by 16 Menkens prop. For grins between rebuilds I threw a .030 over 383 together, VHS prepped 906 NASCAR heads, 540" Erson Mushroom with 850 on a Tarantula (Torker?)manifold, nothing exotic, just decent parts. Motor sounded plenty healthy on the trailer, trying to get it to leave hard was another story. Get up on a plane and it was a sweet little cruiser, just didn't have enough bottom end to get it up quickly. If you want to cruise around the lake and get decent mileage(thats a relative term in a boat), think you could have some fun with a 383. A lot of people mistakenly think a high-winding low torque setup should work in a boat if it works in a car, but that is seldom the case, especially in a direct drive boat. Water just has a way of absorbing torque and HP, and I don't understand the physics, just know from experience that it does. My 
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Re: Really HIGH-WINDING B/RB engine ... ?
#717196
06/07/10 10:02 PM
06/07/10 10:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,313
Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,313
Prospect, PA
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Quote:
be lucky to get 5800 out of it in a boat.
I was wondering when someone would finally say it. And he's not talking about piston weight, I think he is say your missing something important - torque and horsepower.
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