|
493 RB Steet/Strip Combo, What Are Your Thoughts???
#664784
04/08/10 10:47 PM
04/08/10 10:47 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 376
FT Campbell, KY / Clarksville,...
The Cuda Guy
OP
enthusiast
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 376
FT Campbell, KY / Clarksville,...
|
Hey guys just dropped my 73 cuda off with a great friend, he is going to put togeather a 493 (mancini Kit) RB for me while Im over seas for the next year. Just wanted to see what you guys think about the build and what type of power it will make. This will be a street driven car that will see a lot of track time. 1973 440 Block 4.15 Eagle Crank & Rods Diamond Flat Top Pistons Stealth Heads (Cleaned Up & Gasket Matched) Roller Rockers 1.5 Comp Cam, Solid Roller: .600 lift Comp Solid Roller lifters Eddy Victor intake (matched to heads) 950 carb 2" Primary Headers/Full 3" exhaust 3500 stall Looking to get about 10.1 to 11.1 comp. Want to run on pump gas. Dana 60 cut to B-Body specs and 3.73 or 4.10 gear & New HD Springs with 1" relo kit, also getting subframe connectors put on. Going to go with 10" wide rims with ET streets or a similar tire. My friend who is building the engine and taking care of all my stuff suggested I might want to switch to a smaller non roller solid (.566 lift) cam for my build. What are your guys thoughts? Thanks in advance.  Don
Last edited by The Cuda Guy; 04/08/10 11:55 PM.
|
|
|
Re: 493 RB Steet/Strip Combo, What Are Your Thoughts???
[Re: The Cuda Guy]
#664786
04/08/10 11:31 PM
04/08/10 11:31 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
ahy
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 7,664
IN
|
A few thoughts based on building a similar 496" B. 10 - 11 CR is the right range. Depending on cam, closer to 10.2-10.5 would work better on pump gas. This requires a dish piston. With a long duration cam and good quench 11 may work but that's pushing it. BB's don't like detonation and you have to finish the race to win. If you want to get the most out of it on pump gas, build a zero deck engine with a common .040 head gasket to get arount .040 quench with a "D" dish to get compression where it needs to be. The stock port style heads make more peak power and lower ET with a big cam and high stall convertor but drivability and fuel economy suffer. I think its more fun to have a more moderate cam + convertor and enjoy the mid range torque of the stroker. On cam type, the roller can provide better performance and avoids the issue of low zinc oil. However, since the BB wasn't designed for a roller, component selection and setup are critical. Perhaps your builder isn't comfortable with this. I wouldn't be either for what is worth. My setup has 10.2 CR and a .55 lift 243deg@.050 "fast" MM lobe mechanical flat tappet cam from Muscle Motors with comp "pro magnum" rockers. It works with the stock Ed springs. I run diesel engine oil + STP to get additional oil protection. I guess it has 550 HP at around 5600 RPM. Torque builds quickly starting at around 2000 RPM. Mine's an manual transmission application. With an auto, a little extra stall vs stock would be needed for sharp performance but not much. I guess I'd follow your builder's advice and go with a more moderate FT cam.
|
|
|
Re: 493 RB Steet/Strip Combo, What Are Your Thoughts???
[Re: The Cuda Guy]
#664788
04/09/10 04:56 AM
04/09/10 04:56 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
moparniac
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
|
You mentioned track duty alot do you have an ET goal?  at least your going dana from the start  also some might want to know the cam timing events / specs to give you a better choice on compression  I think the duration @ 50 and intake valve closing ABDC should be balanced with compression choice also so you dont bleed off too much and loosing some free ponies!  whats the weight on that thing anyways  here is something for ya to play around with so you get a better feel for it... I would say "about" 9.0 to 1 dynamic is pump gas frendly http://www.wallaceracing.com/dynamic-cr.php
Mopar Performance
|
|
|
Re: 493 RB Steet/Strip Combo, What Are Your Thoughts???
[Re: The Cuda Guy]
#664789
04/09/10 07:53 AM
04/09/10 07:53 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,281
West Coast, USA
jbc426
master
|
master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,281
West Coast, USA
|
I'd buy him a copy of AndyF's book and let him read that first. What are you doing overseas for a year?
1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
|
|
|
Re: 493 RB Steet/Strip Combo, What Are Your Thoughts???
[Re: ahy]
#664790
04/09/10 02:17 PM
04/09/10 02:17 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,840
Flint, Michigan
B1Fish540
master
|
master
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 2,840
Flint, Michigan
|
Quote:
A few thoughts based on building a similar 496" B. 10 - 11 CR is the right range. Depending on cam, closer to 10.2-10.5 would work better on pump gas. This requires a dish piston. With a long duration cam and good quench 11 may work but that's pushing it. BB's don't like detonation and you have to finish the race to win.
If you want to get the most out of it on pump gas, build a zero deck engine with a common .040 head gasket to get arount .040 quench with a "D" dish to get compression where it needs to be.
The stock port style heads make more peak power and lower ET with a big cam and high stall convertor but drivability and fuel economy suffer. I think its more fun to have a more moderate cam + convertor and enjoy the mid range torque of the stroker.
On cam type, the roller can provide better performance and avoids the issue of low zinc oil. However, since the BB wasn't designed for a roller, component selection and setup are critical. Perhaps your builder isn't comfortable with this. I wouldn't be either for what is worth.
My setup has 10.2 CR and a .55 lift [Email]243deg@.050[/Email] "fast" MM lobe mechanical flat tappet cam from Muscle Motors with comp "pro magnum" rockers. It works with the stock Ed springs. I run diesel engine oil + STP to get additional oil protection.
I guess it has 550 HP at around 5600 RPM. Torque builds quickly starting at around 2000 RPM. Mine's an manual transmission application. With an auto, a little extra stall vs stock would be needed for sharp performance but not much.
I guess I'd follow your builder's advice and go with a more moderate FT cam.
 I had "reverse dome" Ross pistons in my 440 with B1-BS heads and 10 to 1 CR. My engine builder felt this gives the best quench on pump gas. The reverse dome is like a "mirror" of the combustion chamber and is measured in CCs for the CR you want.
|
|
|
Re: 493 RB Steet/Strip Combo, What Are Your Thoughts???
[Re: jbc426]
#664791
04/09/10 02:27 PM
04/09/10 02:27 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,472
Overland Park, KS.
Joshs68
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,472
Overland Park, KS.
|
Quote:
I'd buy him a copy of AndyF's book and let him read that first. What are you doing overseas for a year?
|
|
|
Re: 493 RB Steet/Strip Combo, What Are Your Thoughts???
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#664793
04/09/10 08:45 PM
04/09/10 08:45 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 376
FT Campbell, KY / Clarksville,...
The Cuda Guy
OP
enthusiast
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 376
FT Campbell, KY / Clarksville,...
|
I appricate all the comments. Im pretty sure he has Andy's book, not that he would need it he has been building engines for 30 years. The car is stock cuda weight im guessing 3600 lbs. I would like to see low 11 sec qtr mile times. What are your guys thoughts on switching out from the solid roller I have to a smaller solid cam? Im in the Army and headed to Afganistan for the next year. Here is the kit I got from Mancini: http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/493440flpist.html
Street/Strip 73 Barracuda
|
|
|
Re: 493 RB Steet/Strip Combo, What Are Your Thoughts???
[Re: The Cuda Guy]
#664797
04/10/10 11:00 AM
04/10/10 11:00 AM
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,328
St. Louis, MO
mopardamo
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,328
St. Louis, MO
|
Hello The Cuda Guy, I would consider the 440 2D intake for that combo and keep the roller idea. I agree with the others about keeping it around the 10.5 mark and not hitting 11 on the cr. I would not go over 3200 on the stall and get the 3.73 gear. Damon
|
|
|
Re: 493 RB Steet/Strip Combo, What Are Your Thoughts???
[Re: Old School]
#664800
04/10/10 06:23 PM
04/10/10 06:23 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
moparniac
master
|
master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
|
I'm suprised no one mentioned the 337 yet ! But atleast the 2d can go out to max wedge down the road if need be!
Mopar Performance
|
|
|
Re: 493 RB Steet/Strip Combo, What Are Your Thoughts???
[Re: moparniac]
#664801
04/10/10 07:10 PM
04/10/10 07:10 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 376
FT Campbell, KY / Clarksville,...
The Cuda Guy
OP
enthusiast
|
OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 376
FT Campbell, KY / Clarksville,...
|
Does anyone have a link to the 337? I have seriously concidered the Indy dual plane.
I guess the bottom line is that my engine builder will know what is best, I wanted to get some thoughts/opinions on the cam change should I keep the roller or go just solid with street/strip in mind.
Thanks for all the comments.
Don
Street/Strip 73 Barracuda
|
|
|
Re: 493 RB Steet/Strip Combo, What Are Your Thoughts???
[Re: The Cuda Guy]
#664802
04/10/10 07:36 PM
04/10/10 07:36 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,328
St. Louis, MO
mopardamo
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,328
St. Louis, MO
|
Hello, Here is one from the Tech Archives about the 337. https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...e=1#Post4613252I think it might also be a good manifold for your use. I would give the nod to the 2D in your application though. Go roller. Get the block set up for a roller and you will likely not have to do any block mod's in the future unless you really step it up. Damon 
|
|
|
|
|
