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A12 Identification #638821 03/13/10 01:40 PM 03/13/10 01:40 PM
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 104 Pugetroplis WA RallyeMike OP member
RallyeMike OP member Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 104 Pugetroplis WA	I have found what is 99% chance an A12 Bee derelict with no fenders, grill, or drive train. Not sure if the body tag is present. The car is tucked away in a small town and friends of mine remember it new as an A12 from the 70's. The property owner where it sits says he thinks the non-resident owner will sell it now, so I'm going to pursue it. What are 4 or 5 quick things to look at to tell positively it is an A12 car? I appreciate the help ! "My top end is uuuuunlimited!"

Re: A12 Identification [Re: RallyeMike] #638822 03/13/10 01:52 PM 03/13/10 01:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 426 Mid-Atlantic S Scatransit mopar
Scatransit mopar S Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 426 Mid-Atlantic	A few: 5th digit an "M" DANA rear 2 extra 1/2 leaves on right side spacers (about 1/8 inch thick) under lower control arm bumpers unique engine harness with the idle solenoid wire going to passenger side [oo]======[oo]

Re: A12 Identification [Re: Scatransit] #638823 03/13/10 02:04 PM 03/13/10 02:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 29,654 Hamtramck, PA A Alaskan_TA Fluffy Balladeer
Alaskan_TA Fluffy Balladeer A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 29,654 Hamtramck, PA	No hood hinges - four hood pins instead.

Re: A12 Identification [Re: Scatransit] #638824 03/13/10 02:04 PM 03/13/10 02:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,379 KY USA mopargem master
mopargem master Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 3,379 KY USA	All A12's have an oval filler hole 5862492-A12Bee083(Small).jpg (160 downloads) 68 Polara 500...LL1 Y7 M6X 69 Hemi road runner...X9 X9 M6X 69 A12 road runner....R4 R4 M6X 69 ModTop FLORAL Super Bee...F6 M6W 70 AAR 'cuda...EW1 EW1 H4X9 71 Duster 340...FJ6 V24 L6X9 71 road runner FC7 V1X M6X9 72 Rallye Charger B5 V1W 74 'cuda 360...KB5 V1X A6X9 08 SRT Challenger #234

Re: A12 Identification [Re: mopargem] #638825 03/13/10 04:27 PM 03/13/10 04:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 5,048 Atlanta Indiana D Dave Watt master
Dave Watt master D Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 5,048 Atlanta Indiana	Make sure the 5th digit in the VIN# is an "M" which is the 440+6 engine. Write down the entire VIN# for my A12 database. I agree with everyone above except for the leaf springs. I have Broadcast sheet documentation on many of the early build A12 cars where they were delivered with the standard Rallye suspension, 5 leafs per side. 99% of them have the Hemi suspension with 7 leafs on the passenger side though. Last edited by Dave Watt; 03/13/10 04:28 PM.

Re: A12 Identification [Re: Dave Watt] #638826 03/13/10 05:14 PM 03/13/10 05:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 426 Mid-Atlantic S Scatransit mopar
Scatransit mopar S Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 426 Mid-Atlantic	Quote: ...I agree with everyone above except for the leaf springs. I have Broadcast sheet documentation on many of the early build A12 cars where they were delivered with the standard Rallye suspension, 5 leafs per side. 99% of them have the Hemi suspension with 7 leafs on the passenger side though... I'm not sure how complete this car is, and I was speaking in general terms in an effort to help give him things to look for. We all know there are lots of things that could be argued with respect to authentication of these cars (any MOPAR really). Another example would be an "H" instead of "M" etc. Also it should have the larger 26" radiator opening in the core support...As well as no provisions in the firewall for A/C... [oo]======[oo]

Re: A12 Identification [Re: Scatransit] #638827 03/13/10 05:28 PM 03/13/10 05:28 PM
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 104 Pugetroplis WA RallyeMike OP member
RallyeMike OP member Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 104 Pugetroplis WA	There is no drive train including the axle, so the leaf sprigs would be in question anyhow. Hood hinges can be removed, pins can be added, etc. All good stuff, but things like the solenoid wire .... Great stuff! It's been awhile since I have been into B-bodies of this era. Is the oval gas filler hole a gag or is this really true? Why would they do that only on A12 cars? Any more obscure items to look for? "My top end is uuuuunlimited!"

Re: A12 Identification [Re: RallyeMike] #638828 03/13/10 05:55 PM 03/13/10 05:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 18,632 jersey shore F flypaper I hate Texas
flypaper I hate Texas F Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 18,632 jersey shore	Quote: Is the oval gas filler hole a gag or is this really true? Why would they do that only on A12 cars? they did it on all cars built after jan of 69 a12 cars were built after jan of 69 alot of the things that are listed here are most likely long gone on a gutted out a12 car. what you should look for is the obvious m in the vin number on the dash vin tag does it have a fender tag ??? if yes, does it match the vin tag on the dash?? after looking for or at the fender tag, then look at the the front rad support and see if the last 6 digits of the vin with a 9a before it is stamped in to it. then you should go to the driver side trunk gutter and under the trunk lid seal should be those same numbers stamped in it as on the rad support. if those numbers match up you have a a12 car good luck ps bring back pics and numbers please

Re: A12 Identification [Re: flypaper] #638829 03/13/10 06:17 PM 03/13/10 06:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 21,442 It's a dry heat gtx6970 Too Many Posts
gtx6970 Too Many Posts Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 21,442 It's a dry heat	26 inch radiator opening,all were 3 speed wipers I think all A12 cars are 4 wheel drum brakes??

Re: A12 Identification [Re: flypaper] #638830 03/13/10 07:25 PM 03/13/10 07:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 5,048 Atlanta Indiana D Dave Watt master
Dave Watt master D Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 5,048 Atlanta Indiana	Quote: then look at the the front rad support and see if the last 6 digits of the vin with a 9a before it is stamped in to it. then you should go to the driver side trunk gutter and under the trunk lid seal should be those same numbers stamped in it as on the rad support. if those numbers match up you have a a12 car Not to split hairs but to give accurate information, the numbers on the radiator support and trunk lip will actually be stamped A9 XXXXXX.

Re: A12 Identification [Re: Scatransit] #638831 03/13/10 07:32 PM 03/13/10 07:32 PM
Joined: May 2004 Posts: 5,123 Warrenton, VA RoadRunnerJD master
RoadRunnerJD master Joined: May 2004 Posts: 5,123 Warrenton, VA	Quote: A few: 5th digit an "M" DANA rear 2 extra 1/2 leaves on right side spacers (about 1/8 inch thick) under lower control arm bumpers unique engine harness with the idle solenoid wire going to passenger side I think your suggestion about the 1/8" spacers under the rubber bumpers on the lower control arms is the best suggestion yet for a car that may be missing eveery other form of identification. It's unlikely anybody would have removed the bumpers and spacer plates! It should have holes in the front for the original hood pins even if someone added a hood with hinges at a later date. If there are hinges, you could remove them to check out the paint behind them to see how it's painted in that area?

Re: A12 Identification [Re: Dave Watt] #638832 03/13/10 07:33 PM 03/13/10 07:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,946 Connecticut 5126brl No more top fuel
5126brl No more top fuel Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,946 Connecticut	A good way to tell is the owner will have bad attitude and tell you "Do you know what this is?" Hope this helps!

Re: A12 Identification [Re: 5126brl No more] #638833 03/13/10 08:49 PM 03/13/10 08:49 PM
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 104 Pugetroplis WA RallyeMike OP member
RallyeMike OP member Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 104 Pugetroplis WA	Ok. I have my list. Should be enough clues if the fender tag happens to be missing. Thanks guys. "My top end is uuuuunlimited!"

Re: A12 Identification [Re: RallyeMike] #638834 03/13/10 09:19 PM 03/13/10 09:19 PM
A Anonymous Unregistered
Anonymous Unregistered A	goodluck! 5863221-65HEMIBELVEDERE.63MAXWEDGESAVOY.A12ROADRUNNER003.JPG (78 downloads)

Re: A12 Identification [Re: 5126brl No more] #638835 03/13/10 10:40 PM 03/13/10 10:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,400 Columbia Station, Ohio 69RTSE pro stock
69RTSE pro stock Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 1,400 Columbia Station, Ohio	Quote: A good way to tell is the owner will have bad attitude and tell you "Do you know what this is?" Hope this helps! Seriously though, good luck. I hope everything works out for you. Hopefully we'll see some pictures soon....

Re: A12 Identification [Re: 69RTSE] #638836 03/13/10 11:35 PM 03/13/10 11:35 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,522 N.E. OHIO, USA A12 Too Many Posts
A12 Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 21,522 N.E. OHIO, USA	of all of the things mentioned the 3-speed wipers are most likely going to be there and posibly the 26" radiator opening. The fuel and return line, the oval filler neck hole, head rest, and for sure only a heater firewall, NO A/C firewall! If it has original fenders then the 383 callout emblem holes were never drilled, and the fender hood pad should have the hole enlarged for the front hood pins. No 3-speed wipers, 26" radiator or oval filler neck hole you better look closer IMO.....oh, and an A/C firewall and the claim it's an A12 then

Re: A12 Identification [Re: A12] #638837 03/14/10 08:50 AM 03/14/10 08:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,322 S sixbbl69 top fuel
sixbbl69 top fuel S Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,322	k- frame

Re: A12 Identification [Re: sixbbl69] #638838 03/14/10 11:18 AM 03/14/10 11:18 AM
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 6,293 Northeast, Alpine, NY 9 9 Sec Phill On a road near you
9 Sec Phill On a road near you 9 Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 6,293 Northeast, Alpine, NY	Quote: k- frame Why the k frame, whats diff?

Re: A12 Identification [Re: sixbbl69] #638839 03/14/10 11:19 AM 03/14/10 11:19 AM
Joined: May 2004 Posts: 5,123 Warrenton, VA RoadRunnerJD master
RoadRunnerJD master Joined: May 2004 Posts: 5,123 Warrenton, VA	It should have a title with an M in the VIN and a matching VIN. Unless you think it's a fake title and VIN, there's really no question. If it has an H in the VIN, it's kind of worthless as a possible A12 unless you have the original fender tag or some other documentation or proof that it was sold as an A12.

Re: A12 Identification [Re: RoadRunnerJD] #638840 03/14/10 11:25 AM 03/14/10 11:25 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 18,575 Dreaming of the 808 AZ_A12_BEE I Live Here
AZ_A12_BEE I Live Here Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 18,575 Dreaming of the 808	Quote: Quote: A few: 5th digit an "M" DANA rear 2 extra 1/2 leaves on right side spacers (about 1/8 inch thick) under lower control arm bumpers unique engine harness with the idle solenoid wire going to passenger side I think your suggestion about the 1/8" spacers under the rubber bumpers on the lower control arms is the best suggestion yet for a car that may be missing eveery other form of identification. It's unlikely anybody would have removed the bumpers and spacer plates! It should have holes in the front for the original hood pins even if someone added a hood with hinges at a later date. If there are hinges, you could remove them to check out the paint behind them to see how it's painted in that area? 69.5 A12 Bee, first purchased in 1976, car 169 on registry 69 Coronet R/T 440/4 spd 69 Coronet 500 Conv H code 383 4bbl/auto 37 Plymouth PU Find your spot on earth and ride it.

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