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Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: 64Post] #462578
09/18/09 08:33 AM
09/18/09 08:33 AM
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kbeeper69 Offline OP
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the heads are 915s they had a light cut to true them up..004 around the perimiter . only one bolt hole was off,intake bolted to the passenger side the driver side front bolt was off a little. i oblonged the holes up and down. now mind you im still using the same valley pan. should i try a new one ?

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: kbeeper69] #462579
09/18/09 05:21 PM
09/18/09 05:21 PM
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Dodgem Offline
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The blue silicone sucks use black orange or red.
If you had to oblong the holes your intake is not sitting down right so a real good bead on the back side of the intake (espesially at the bottomes) and a good bead on the front side of the intake plus some on bolt threads pull barely snug and go away for an hour. then come back snug up and come back tomorrow now pull tight!!

You should almost be able to see gasket will flatten sealing ridges at top and not at bottom??

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: Dodgem] #462580
09/30/09 08:41 PM
09/30/09 08:41 PM
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kbeeper69 Offline OP
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up date .... tried new bathtub gasket ,still sucking oil at bottom of ports,made new side gaskets out of gasket box,still sucking oil,the ports were oil soaked around the gaskets. think maybe the right side gaskets would help? ive gone thru 2 full tubes of silicone plus the tiny one with the new bathtub gasket,im at wits end with this thing,i cant tell if the heads are at fault or the intake .

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: kbeeper69] #462581
09/30/09 09:44 PM
09/30/09 09:44 PM
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Have the intake shaved. I think you'll find that they took more then .004 off your heads.Also if you had only one bolt hole that needed to be oblonged then there is a mating surface problem. Shave the intake just a tad to true the surface. That should equal what was taken off your heads or at least get them closer to a tight fit.. Forget all about adding paper gaskets. You'll never get the intake to bolt down.

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: Dougsmopars] #462582
10/01/09 12:41 AM
10/01/09 12:41 AM
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Quote:

Have the intake shaved.




Here it comes...

I'd suggest the same thing unless it's an ultra rare intake. In that case I'd pull the heads and have the intake face milled. Can you try/borrow another intake?

What I think is going on is a combination of things.

-More than .004" total taken off the heads throughout their service life.
-Block was decked at some point.
-The end rails weren't cut down to compensate for the head/block machining, and it's keeping the pan from sealing at the bottom of the ports.

Milling the intake is the easiest fix at this point. You may have to do it twice if your first educated guess isn't satisfactory. In your case you want the intake to sit as low as possible while still being able to get the bolts caught.

Spray Copper sealer without the paper gaskets is all that should be needed. IIRC only 2 colors of sealer are recommended for oil contact -- Ultra Blue and Black. I never had any luck with Black and only use Ultra Blue. It does need to cure for 24 hours though.

Last edited by 64Post; 10/01/09 12:47 AM.
Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: 64Post] #462583
10/04/09 11:45 PM
10/04/09 11:45 PM
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kbeeper69 Offline OP
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Update: Took intake to a machine shop, they milled the intake 10 thousandths, he said it probably would need more. He also said that if i wanted to pull the heads that he would cc the chambers that he would see how much the heads were cut, to determine how much more would have to come off the intake. Reinstalled intake, new gasket still sucking oil, then I went as far to silicone the gasket and it is still sucking oil. Now I have pulled the head off, right where the lower row of cylinder head bolts measured the thickness got .990, I am told that stock is 1 inch. This is 10 thousandths shaved the heads, and rule of thumb is 1.5 for the intake, which already has had 10 thousandths taken off, if I go by these measurements that I have, I would need 5 thousandths more off...Would this make a big difference with it still sucking oil? Or should I have the 5 thousandths more taken off?

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: kbeeper69] #462584
10/05/09 12:10 AM
10/05/09 12:10 AM
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Quote:

Update: Took intake to a machine shop, they milled the intake 10 thousandths, he said it probably would need more. He also said that if i wanted to pull the heads that he would cc the chambers that he would see how much the heads were cut, to determine how much more would have to come off the intake. Reinstalled intake, new gasket still sucking oil, then I went as far to silicone the gasket and it is still sucking oil. Now I have pulled the head off, right where the lower row of cylinder head bolts measured the thickness got .990, I am told that stock is 1 inch. This is 10 thousandths shaved the heads, and rule of thumb is 1.5 for the intake, which already has had 10 thousandths taken off, if I go by these measurements that I have, I would need 5 thousandths more off...Would this make a big difference with it still sucking oil? Or should I have the 5 thousandths more taken off?




No, .005" won't make a difference. IIRC anything less than .010" is absorbed by the embossing on tray. Did you by chance check the bolt hole alignment of the intake before you took the head off?

I don't think cc'ing the head is relevant at this point. It looks like they were only shaved .010", that's minimal.

Can you try/borrow another intake from someone?

Last edited by 64Post; 10/05/09 12:16 AM.
Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: 64Post] #462585
10/05/09 08:03 AM
10/05/09 08:03 AM
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The intake bolts don't go through the port, so sealing them doesn't do anything.


I want my fair share
Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: SomeCarGuy] #462586
10/05/09 10:07 AM
10/05/09 10:07 AM
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kbeeper69 Offline OP
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ive oblonged the bolt holes,when the intake is set down ,with a few bolts in it looks like it needs to be cut more.also when i bolt one side first or tighten on bolt,i can see a gap on the opposite side,till all bolts are tightened.im probably gonna end up taking the engine to the machine shop to get the deck height checked unless i can check it my self ??

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: kbeeper69] #462587
10/05/09 11:17 AM
10/05/09 11:17 AM
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Quote:

ive oblonged the bolt holes,when the intake is set down ,with a few bolts in it looks like it needs to be cut more.also when i bolt one side first or tighten on bolt,i can see a gap on the opposite side,till all bolts are tightened.im probably gonna end up taking the engine to the machine shop to get the deck height checked unless i can check it my self ??




Boy, I wish you had aluminum heads at this point, I've got an easy way to seal those.

Based on your previous posts we established that you had .004" gap. Now that the intake has been milled, repeat the same process you used to get the previous measurement of .004".

-Clean the sealer from the heads
-Bolt and torque one side of the intake down without the tray or a paper gasket.
-Check bolt hole alignment of the opposite side. Since you hogged the intake holes out a bit you want the bolts to favor the upper portion of the intake holes and barely be able to catch.
-Get the intake-head gap measurement.

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: 64Post] #462588
10/06/09 11:54 AM
10/06/09 11:54 AM
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kbeeper69 Offline OP
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o.k reinstalled head ,torqued down cleaned all sealer bolted intake on driverside down,checked bolt hole alignment on passengerside ,good,all in center of holes. used feeler guage to find clearance,found 004. bolted passenger side down ,checked bolt hole alignment ,good ,in the center .used feeler guages again,found .008. verified this 2x. now what?

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: kbeeper69] #462589
10/06/09 12:28 PM
10/06/09 12:28 PM
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I cannot believe a good coating of RTV (high Heat) properly applied with a new valley pan will not fix this problem. apply liberally to both sides of gasket all around ports and bolt holes. apply some more to the bolts. let set for 15 minutes before assembly!! Then snug very lightly and walk away for at least one hour!! Then tighten nice and snug wait overnight and tighten again. then tighten once a week or two.
Maybe you have reversion from the cylinders but that would mean no oil ring seal at all??
What cam.
What rings not chrome I hope or low tension???
something is just not right

Don't use that blue silicone I used to used it cause it was Chrysler blue but it don't seal worth well you know!!!

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: Dodgem] #462590
10/06/09 12:38 PM
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kbeeper69 Offline OP
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ive done all that ,left silicon harded for a few hrs. im using moly rings.every time i pulled the intake off all ports were covered in oil,also before i would pull the intake ,i would pull a plug or two,and they would be covered oil up to the threads.ive used all the silicones in the tubes blue orange and now black,also thread sealent on the intake bolts.man that 383 i have on the stand is looking real good about now.

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: kbeeper69] #462591
10/06/09 12:45 PM
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Quote:

ive done all that ,left silicon harded for a few hrs. im using moly rings.every time i pulled the intake off all ports were covered in oil,also before i would pull the intake ,i would pull a plug or two,and they would be covered oil up to the threads.ive used all the silicones in the tubes blue orange and now black,also thread sealent on the intake bolts.man that 383 i have on the stand is looking real good about now.




Are you idling? Road testing? What are you doing and how many miles are you putting on the engine before finding oil in the ports?

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: 64Post] #462592
10/06/09 12:50 PM
10/06/09 12:50 PM
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kbeeper69 Offline OP
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pulling the car out of the garage ,and letting it idle, the longest the car has ever ran was during break in .the car i usually let idle for about 10-15 minutes blip the throttle a few times ,car sounds awsomeby the way ,3 inch exhaust crane 528 lift cam,hooker 1 7/ headers speed. ill run it till i cant see the end of the car !!!

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: kbeeper69] #462593
10/06/09 12:52 PM
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Dam you would think when you pull the intake you could see if you had a good seal?? maybe you are kicking the wrong cat after all??? but for that much oil it would have to have
1. no valve seals at all and god awful guides??

2. Is it pulling oil directly into the intake via PVC. I had that problem once the stopper was gone in the PVC but it only smoked on start up and a guy cam over and said it may be A and dam it was??
Guess it would take a drink of oil on shutdown
A vented cap should be on the other valve cover????

have you done a compression test and leak down.

Have you pulled the valve covers to see that oil holes in rocker shafts are down and not up if they are installed up oil sprays all over!! Bin there on one bank at least back in the days before time!!

Is the breather on the other valve cover routed into carb breather too??

Just wondering if you are feeding it oil from two sources???

There is always a source and a solution finding the solution is the journey that is sometimes frustrating!!

How much oil in the oil pan. too much is not a good thing. (I bin there too!)
I assume no porting so no porting into oil??

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: kbeeper69] #462594
10/06/09 12:58 PM
10/06/09 12:58 PM
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have you gotten a set of the paper gaskets yet ? I don't like silcone for sealing this , get the gaskets , one of each side of the valey , if it still sucks oil you have a misalignment . aslo check the valey end rails , is the intake hiting it or is there a gap ? I'd round those botom corners anyway and make sure yuoiu have a gap . too many times blocks get decked and the end rails do not get cut and the intake hits before the bolts can draw it tight .

Now you say when you bolt the intake to one head tight you have a gap on the other side of .004 ? You shouldn't have any gap .

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: Dodgem] #462595
10/06/09 01:01 PM
10/06/09 01:01 PM
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kbeeper69 Offline OP
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im not running a pcv valve its open,i have a breather on the other side. i can see the valve seals, when i pull the intake,the silicone around the ports are flat ,on the intake side,but under the valley pan its leaking/sucking under the ports and leaving a visible sign at the lower sectionson top of the valley pan ,that i cant see with the intake on the engine.rocker shafts are on correct,crane gold race rockers ,new hardened shafts ,checked a few times to make sure. ports were supposed to be done,ported.

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: Dodgem] #462596
10/06/09 01:04 PM
10/06/09 01:04 PM
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Quote:

Dam you would think when you pull the intake you could see if you had a good seal?? maybe you are kicking the wrong cat after all??? but for that much oil it would have to have
1. no valve seals at all and god awful guides??

2. Is it pulling oil directly into the intake via PVC. I had that problem once the stopper was gone in the PVC but it only smoked on start up and a guy cam over and said it may be A and dam it was??
Guess it would take a drink of oil on shutdown
A vented cap should be on the other valve cover????

have you done a compression test and leak down.

Have you pulled the valve covers to see that oil holes in rocker shafts are down and not up if they are installed up oil sprays all over!! Bin there on one bank at least back in the days before time!!

Is the breather on the other valve cover routed into carb breather too??

Just wondering if you are feeding it oil from two sources???

There is always a source and a solution finding the solution is the journey that is sometimes frustrating!!

How much oil in the oil pan. too much is not a good thing. (I bin there too!)
I assume no porting so no porting into oil??





He said he did a comp. test and all were at 160 psi. I was thinking he may have washed out the rings, but the comp. seems to be good.

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: kbeeper69] #462597
10/06/09 01:09 PM
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Quote:

when i pull the intake,the silicone around the ports are flat ,on the intake side,but under the valley pan its leaking/sucking under the ports and leaving a visible sign at the lower sectionson top of the valley pan ,that i cant see with the intake on the engine.




Since you're confident this is where the problem is -- and the evidence seems to bear this out -- this is why I've been focusing on port misalignment.

How much does the shop charge you to mill the intake?

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