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oil on spark plugs #462558
09/07/09 08:32 PM
09/07/09 08:32 PM
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shavertown pa.
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kbeeper69 Offline OP
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been fighting a smoke out the exhaust issue with my 440 since it was rebuilt. pulled plugs and they are oil fouled. what would cause this,no vacuum leaks at intake,or valve covers. plugs are wet with oil. any help ? or do i have to pull heads,and or motor?

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: kbeeper69] #462559
09/07/09 09:17 PM
09/07/09 09:17 PM
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Kentucky
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ewolfe Offline
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I'd start with a compression check. I'm assuming you had the heads redone by a shop you turst.

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: ewolfe] #462560
09/07/09 10:38 PM
09/07/09 10:38 PM
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shavertown pa.
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kbeeper69 Offline OP
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cant tonight ,garage is under kids room. what would i look for besides low readings between cylinders? would the heads have anything wrong to do this? heads had valve job ,bigger valves installed,gasket matched,light shave.

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: kbeeper69] #462561
09/08/09 02:48 AM
09/08/09 02:48 AM
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Rancho Cucamonga, CA
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I had a similar issue a few weeks back, though not as global (I only had One plug fouling.)

The engine had had a complete valve-job with New Springs, Seals around six months earlier.

Then, it started fouling the #7 plug. Thought it must be rings (since the valve job was so recent.)

Tested compression, and all eight cylinders were within specifications.

Changed out the Oil-Seals on that one cylinder, and the smoke and oil-fouling ended.

May or may not be your situation. Another possibility, oil leaking past intake gasket.

Good Luck.

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: kbeeper69] #462562
09/08/09 09:31 AM
09/08/09 09:31 AM
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Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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440 intakes are bad for leaking on the underside of the intake gasket. if you had the heads milled a bit and not the intake sides or the intake the intake is a little wider than the V it sits down in and does not seal perfect underneath allowing it to suck oil.
often applying RTV to both sides of the intake gasket at the ports tightening snug then waiting 2 hours and tighten good works. don't be afraid to retighten more next morning and again in a week .

I also assume you have a good PVC valve and an open breather on other valve cover

Last edited by Dodgem; 09/08/09 09:35 AM.
Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: Dodgem] #462563
09/08/09 03:43 PM
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kbeeper69 Offline OP
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when all this smoke first started i thought it was the intake .had car running hosed it all down with wd40 no leaks.i ll have to do a compression test when im off work.how would i tell a bad valve seal? the engine and heads were rebuilt at the same time .

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: kbeeper69] #462564
09/08/09 04:18 PM
09/08/09 04:18 PM
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Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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the thing about the bathtub gasket leak I described it leaks (more allows oil to seep in) underneath so unless you got a way to get down in the motor lifter valley and spray the underside at the bottom of the ports that don't always work. Pull the intake easy 5 minute job and you can usually see if the oil has been getting sucked up into the ports!

Valve seals usually smokes when sitting 1/2 and mostly goes away and under WOT smokes some as it will suck oil past the intake valve.

Last edited by Dodgem; 09/08/09 04:19 PM.
Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: Dodgem] #462565
09/11/09 10:31 PM
09/11/09 10:31 PM
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kbeeper69 Offline OP
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UPDATE: Did compression test, all 8 cylinders are 160 psi. Pulled intake oil in the ports. Should I use silicone on the valley pan, or just get a new one?

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: kbeeper69] #462566
09/13/09 10:31 AM
09/13/09 10:31 AM
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Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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yup clean it real good and and apply a layer of silicone around both sides of the port on the gasket. and apply some to the head around ports too.
then snug up wait an hour the pull down tight. retighten after warm up next day and next week then periodically check!

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: Dodgem] #462567
09/14/09 09:00 PM
09/14/09 09:00 PM
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kbeeper69 Offline OP
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any special silicon,was thinking the copper silicone? smear it on or lay a bead?.

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: kbeeper69] #462568
09/15/09 01:20 PM
09/15/09 01:20 PM
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Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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I think they are all fine!

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: kbeeper69] #462569
09/17/09 10:01 AM
09/17/09 10:01 AM
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North Central Indiana
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Either method is okay just make it thick enough to fill any gap you might have usualy about 1/8 inch or so, at least this sounds like an easy fix!!


Kevin
Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: C-Tech] #462570
09/17/09 10:24 PM
09/17/09 10:24 PM
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kbeeper69 Offline OP
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did all the above ,still sucking oil at the bottom of the ports. im giong to try a new gasket ,then a new intake.
anything elese i shiould look at ??

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: kbeeper69] #462571
09/17/09 10:37 PM
09/17/09 10:37 PM
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Does the engine ever puff a cloud of smoke at initial start up? I built a Victor headed 511" engine and used the valve seals that were supplied with the heads from Edelbrock, that engine smoked until the seals were replaced. The ones that were supplied didnt want to stay attached to the valve guides. I dont know how stock heads oil drain back is, but the Edelbrock will pool with enough oil at the top end to cover the tops of the valve guides; so if the valve stem seals seal poorly to the valve or the valve guide, you will have problems with smoke.


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Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: kbeeper69] #462572
09/17/09 10:41 PM
09/17/09 10:41 PM
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Ontario, Canada
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you could get them paper gaskets that go each side of the pan gasket. Felpro 1216 plus RTV???
Is the intake hard to get the bolts in??

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: Dodgem] #462573
09/17/09 10:49 PM
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kbeeper69 Offline OP
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ive oblonged the bolt holes on my intake torker 2 for a 440,after i siliconed the heads,and valley pan,i also bolted the intake to the passenger side head,and ran a.004 feeler guage along the lenght of the intake.i was bearly able to get it thru. this is driving me crazy!!!!! the car smokes as soon as you start it .ive had the heads redone with new seals at rebuild time,could they be the cause of all the smoke,and oil on my plugs??

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: Dodgem] #462574
09/17/09 10:52 PM
09/17/09 10:52 PM
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Manitoba, Canada
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What you may have to do is put a little silicone on each side of the pan, then bolt the intake down. Then pull the intake and pan back off and check to see if there's any areas which do NOT have visible contact with the silicone.

Also, what you can do instead of putting silicone everywhere is to do a bead on the front and back valley pan hold downs (which I'm sure you're already doing) plus a bead along the bottom of each cylinder head before putting the pan down. Again CHECK to make sure you're getting silicone contact everywhere. If you do a good bead basically like a rectangle around the valley area and everything is clean before doing so and you checked and the silicone is getting good contact to the pan and the block then there's no way the oil can get out of the valley area.

FWIW I didn't have a problem with sucking oil out of the valley I only had a problem with sucking oil out of the intake manifold bolts. The intake manifold bolts go right through the head material and right into the valve cover area on top of the head. If you don't use some permatex thread sealer on the bolt threads, engine vacuum WILL suck oil right past the bolt threads and right down your intake. On mine it even made a nice little pool of oil on my valley pan so I could take an oil bath if I wanted to.

I always use the black permatex rtv and have had great luck with it. I always give it 24 hours to fully cure. Probably overkill on time but why take the chance?

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: DaytonaTurbo] #462575
09/17/09 11:05 PM
09/17/09 11:05 PM
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kbeeper69 Offline OP
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i am seeing oil on the bolts also.ive never used any sealer on the bolts,ill give it a try.silicone for the end seals silicone around the head ports and i smeared silicone around the valley pan ports both sides ,im using the blue silicone.

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: kbeeper69] #462576
09/17/09 11:09 PM
09/17/09 11:09 PM
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Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:

i am seeing oil on the bolts also.ive never used any sealer on the bolts,ill give it a try.silicone for the end seals silicone around the head ports and i smeared silicone around the valley pan ports both sides ,im using the blue silicone.




Yes, I use this stuff on the intake bolts now. Specifically made for sealing threads that go thru into oil.

http://permatex.com/products/Automotive/...ead_Sealant.htm

Funny how my factory service manual mentioned nothing about sealing the threads yet after I pulled the stock intake and put it back on they did seep oil. And it's not like they even go into an oil pressure area, and they go downhill yet oil still made its way up there.

Don't use silicone on the bolts, when you take them out it drops chunks of silicone onto the tops of the head under the valve cover. I did it and had to clean out the silicone and chased the threads with a tap to make sure I got that crap cleaned out. Now I just use the thread sealer.

Re: oil on spark plugs [Re: kbeeper69] #462577
09/18/09 12:02 AM
09/18/09 12:02 AM
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Quote:

did all the above ,still sucking oil at the bottom of the ports. im giong to try a new gasket ,then a new intake.
anything elese i shiould look at ??




Were the heads milled? The block decked? Stock heads? Got a deck height from the machinist by any chance?

Sounds like you checked the intake/head angle. You got .004" around the entire perimeter of the intake, correct?

Is your intake too high or too low? Did you hog the intake holes out on the top or bottom?

You may have to break one of the rules in engine building...

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