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Are Cone-type Suregrips That Bad? #315090
05/11/09 05:42 PM
05/11/09 05:42 PM
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Posts: 1,271
Vista, California
6
67Satty Offline OP
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67Satty  Offline OP
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Vista, California
I know you can't rebuild them in the conventional sense. But how does their strength and actual traction capability compare to a clutch-type suregrip?

There is a 489 case, 3.91, cone-type suregrip available locally for $300. If I gamble and it works, it could save me $700 or so over getting a rehabbed center section.

This will be for a 12 second street/strip car. Thanks!

Re: Are Cone-type Suregrips That Bad? [Re: 67Satty] #315091
05/11/09 05:49 PM
05/11/09 05:49 PM
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Posts: 4,884
Michigan
MNobody Offline
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Michigan
Mine leaves identical track's right to left.

Re: Are Cone-type Suregrips That Bad? [Re: MNobody] #315092
05/11/09 06:03 PM
05/11/09 06:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,333
MARYLAND
69Cuda340S Offline
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MARYLAND
If you buy it take the sure grip apart and machine and shim the cones if need be.

Re: Are Cone-type Suregrips That Bad? [Re: 69Cuda340S] #315093
05/11/09 06:08 PM
05/11/09 06:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,672
Virginia
HemiStan Offline
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Virginia
I like to burn rubber. Alot. As in 100 ft or more through several gears. Out of all of the Sure-Grips I have had, only one was a cone style and it seemed to "fishtail". Maybe it was worn out. I swapped it for a clutch style with the same ratio and now it burns rubber straight as an arrow. That's all I know.

Stan

Re: Are Cone-type Suregrips That Bad? [Re: HemiStan] #315094
05/11/09 06:13 PM
05/11/09 06:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila Offline
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Crizila  Offline
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Az
I run one in my 9 1/4. No problems so far. Third season with it.


Fastest 300
Re: Are Cone-type Suregrips That Bad? [Re: Crizila] #315095
05/11/09 07:02 PM
05/11/09 07:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 6,095
Valencia, España
NachoRT74 Offline
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Maybe not that bad, but after all these years of use or abuse, they could it be some damaged, so not a guarantee of good working conditions.

Being the clutch kind are easier and cheaper rebuildable, kist are everywhere, and able to make it at home, thats an advantage. Cone kind will need to me machined as stated, not too cheap to make that.


With a Charger born in Chrysler assembly plant in Valencia, Venezuela
Re: Are Cone-type Suregrips That Bad? [Re: NachoRT74] #315096
05/11/09 07:14 PM
05/11/09 07:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,884
Michigan
MNobody Offline
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Michigan
Quote:

Maybe not that bad, but after all these years of use or abuse, they could it be some damaged, so not a guarantee of good working conditions.

Being the clutch kind are easier and cheaper rebuildable, kist are everywhere, and able to make it at home, thats an advantage. Cone kind will need to me machined as stated, not too cheap to make that.





Not sure what it cost to rebuild the clutch style but gringing off a couple gears and adding washers can't be that expensive.

Re: Are Cone-type Suregrips That Bad? [Re: NachoRT74] #315097
05/11/09 07:14 PM
05/11/09 07:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,202
California
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polkat Offline
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California
I had my cones machined for about $40. Also involves putting a shim washer between the cone and gear that's the same thickness as the amount machined. Worked great for about 50K miles. You can do this maybe twice, before they are totally dead. There are two websites about doing this out there, which you can probably find through Google.

Re: Are Cone-type Suregrips That Bad? [Re: HemiStan] #315098
05/11/09 07:16 PM
05/11/09 07:16 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,359
Buzzard County, FL
IronWolf Offline
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Buzzard County, FL
Quote:

I like to burn rubber. Alot. As in 100 ft or more through several gears. Out of all of the Sure-Grips I have had, only one was a cone style and it seemed to "fishtail". Maybe it was worn out. I swapped it for a clutch style with the same ratio and now it burns rubber straight as an arrow. That's all I know.

Stan




Yes, on the street where there is good traction, (versus the test n' tune track, where they really don't give a flying flip whether you get good traction, and the kidz dump their A/C fluids) , my "sure grip " fishtails , too. Good luck finding a clutch unit, though. Limited availibility, no ?

Re: Are Cone-type Suregrips That Bad? [Re: NachoRT74] #315099
05/11/09 07:36 PM
05/11/09 07:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila Offline
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Crizila  Offline
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Az
Quote:

Maybe not that bad, but after all these years of use or abuse, they could it be some damaged, so not a guarantee of good working conditions.

Being the clutch kind are easier and cheaper rebuildable, kist are everywhere, and able to make it at home, thats an advantage. Cone kind will need to me machined as stated, not too cheap to make that.


Actually, I would have gone to a clutch type ( for the rebuildability thing ), but they are not available for the 9 1/4 diff. Per Auburn gear, the check to see if your cone unit is still serviceable is easy ( applies to a 9 1/4 - don't know about others): Jack one tire off the ground. Put a torque wrench on a lug nut on that wheel ( radially out from the wheel center ). Break-away torque for a new unit should be 70 lbs or better. They claim the unit is serviceable down to 20 lbs. Below that, replace. They also suggest 80-90 gear oil only. No synthetic. An additive os ok if you have bad chatter on turns.


Fastest 300
Re: Are Cone-type Suregrips That Bad? [Re: IronWolf] #315100
05/11/09 07:37 PM
05/11/09 07:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOc ! Offline
The village idiot's idiot
dOc !  Offline
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Florida STAYcation
I have had VERY good luck with them.

The 741 2.76 SG I have in my 62 Belvedere right now came out of a 74 Monaco with 170k miles on it. It has been in there since the middle '90's, has run as quick as 12.30 and as fast as 5200 in high gear !

It is as tight as a drum !! ..

Re: Are Cone-type Suregrips That Bad? [Re: 67Satty] #315101
05/11/09 07:49 PM
05/11/09 07:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,349
warfordsburg, PA
dirt Offline
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warfordsburg, PA
i have had bad experience with those ones. I have never torn up the clutch type but have torn out 3 or the cone type.
1.was in a stock 318 barracuda. the pin in the middle came out and tore up the ring and pinion gears.
2.was in a 360 dart same thing happened
3. was in another 318 car.

they were all 4 speeds and so that was hard on them but only the 360 car had very much power, high 12's in quarter. i will never run another one of those units. trashed 3 sets of gears with them. i have never broken the clutch type and i have one behind my 440 dart.

Re: Are Cone-type Suregrips That Bad? [Re: dirt] #315102
05/11/09 08:14 PM
05/11/09 08:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila Offline
master
Crizila  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az


Fastest 300
Re: Are Cone-type Suregrips That Bad? [Re: Crizila] #315103
05/11/09 08:20 PM
05/11/09 08:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,798
McGregor,Iowa 52157
5
500ciDuster Offline
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McGregor,Iowa 52157
They have their place but the bad part is when they do slip it's metal on metal which ends up in the oil running through the bearings,seals, ring and pinion

Re: Are Cone-type Suregrips That Bad? [Re: 500ciDuster] #315104
05/11/09 09:14 PM
05/11/09 09:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila Offline
master
Crizila  Offline
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Az
Quote:

They have their place but the bad part is when they do slip it's metal on metal which ends up in the oil running through the bearings,seals, ring and pinion


Actually it's metal to metal every time you turn a corner. I've run the same center section with three different sets of gears over the last 2 years. Haven't noticed any gear / bearing wear or metal in the oil. Now that I've said that, it will probably self destruck the next time I go out!


Fastest 300
Re: Are Cone-type Suregrips That Bad? [Re: Crizila] #315105
05/11/09 09:23 PM
05/11/09 09:23 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
S
scratchnfotraction Offline
I Live Here
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Florida
they ar ok..just not good on longevity

as the cone wears it eats into the case and puts metal shving in the oil

most I have seen used have not had very good service on the oil change and the bearing are pitted up

but when in good working order they are just as good as a clutch one IMO

just wont last as long with out preventive maintanace and oil changes

look it over good so it not 700$ after the 300+ $ used

I have had one redone,its tight as a .....
well it chatters the tire on turns so its a grabin good lets say

runwhatyabrung


Re: Are Cone-type Suregrips That Bad? [Re: Crizila] #315106
05/11/09 10:15 PM
05/11/09 10:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383 Offline
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
Quote:

Quote:

Maybe not that bad, but after all these years of use or abuse, they could it be some damaged, so not a guarantee of good working conditions.

Being the clutch kind are easier and cheaper rebuildable, kist are everywhere, and able to make it at home, thats an advantage. Cone kind will need to me machined as stated, not too cheap to make that.


Actually, I would have gone to a clutch type ( for the rebuildability thing ), but they are not available for the 9 1/4 diff. Per Auburn gear, the check to see if your cone unit is still serviceable is easy ( applies to a 9 1/4 - don't know about others): Jack one tire off the ground. Put a torque wrench on a lug nut on that wheel ( radially out from the wheel center ). Break-away torque for a new unit should be 70 lbs or better. They claim the unit is serviceable down to 20 lbs. Below that, replace. They also suggest 80-90 gear oil only. No synthetic. An additive os ok if you have bad chatter on turns.





Clutch types are available forthe 9.25 all the suregrip truck axles are a clutch type LSD. I know because I took one apart, and sold the empty diff with side gears to a kid who was going to rebuild it and put it in his Dakota--I pulled it out because it needed rebuilt and i wanted to go with a detroit true trac

now, if you're talking about an old 9.25 from a car, I don't know if they make one for that specific application (did the spline count change on them?) if so, you could buy one meant for a truck axle, and just get new axles for your older diff


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Re: Are Cone-type Suregrips That Bad? [Re: 67Satty] #315107
05/11/09 10:23 PM
05/11/09 10:23 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,623
Ca Registered: Mar-2001
H
hemiallen Offline
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Or you could buy as good clutch 741 pig in the classified, Northern Cal, shipping may not be that bad.

741'S are stonger than your 12 second car needs.....

It's a 3.91 set, looks new and runs like new.

Allen


'05 Quad cab hemi truck- Flame red- magnaflow exhaust 70-440 cuda- 74-360-4v Challenger- new driver car EX vehicles: 66 charger Drag car- 10.80 at 123 mph 57 imperial 392 Hemi 1960 Sanger V drive- mondello-built 392 hemi
Re: Are Cone-type Suregrips That Bad? [Re: 70Cuda383] #315108
05/12/09 08:20 AM
05/12/09 08:20 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila Offline
master
Crizila  Offline
master

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Maybe not that bad, but after all these years of use or abuse, they could it be some damaged, so not a guarantee of good working conditions.

Being the clutch kind are easier and cheaper rebuildable, kist are everywhere, and able to make it at home, thats an advantage. Cone kind will need to me machined as stated, not too cheap to make that.


Actually, I would have gone to a clutch type ( for the rebuildability thing ), but they are not available for the 9 1/4 diff. Per Auburn gear, the check to see if your cone unit is still serviceable is easy ( applies to a 9 1/4 - don't know about others): Jack one tire off the ground. Put a torque wrench on a lug nut on that wheel ( radially out from the wheel center ). Break-away torque for a new unit should be 70 lbs or better. They claim the unit is serviceable down to 20 lbs. Below that, replace. They also suggest 80-90 gear oil only. No synthetic. An additive os ok if you have bad chatter on turns.





Clutch types are available forthe 9.25 all the suregrip truck axles are a clutch type LSD. I know because I took one apart, and sold the empty diff with side gears to a kid who was going to rebuild it and put it in his Dakota--I pulled it out because it needed rebuilt and i wanted to go with a detroit true trac

now, if you're talking about an old 9.25 from a car, I don't know if they make one for that specific application (did the spline count change on them?) if so, you could buy one meant for a truck axle, and just get new axles for your older diff


Good info - thanks. I didn't know that. The 9 1/4 I have came with the car ( 79 300 - Cordoba ). It was originally open and I added the Auburn center section - cone clutch. I'm not having any problems with it so far. I'll probably stick with it for now.


Fastest 300
Re: Are Cone-type Suregrips That Bad? [Re: dirt] #315109
05/12/09 08:53 AM
05/12/09 08:53 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,982
Ansonia, CT
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CJK440 Offline
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Ansonia, CT
Quote:

i have had bad experience with those ones. I have never torn up the clutch type but have torn out 3 or the cone type.
1.was in a stock 318 barracuda. the pin in the middle came out and tore up the ring and pinion gears.
2.was in a 360 dart same thing happened
3. was in another 318 car.

they were all 4 speeds and so that was hard on them but only the 360 car had very much power, high 12's in quarter. i will never run another one of those units. trashed 3 sets of gears with them. i have never broken the clutch type and i have one behind my 440 dart.




The cone sure-grips only have 2 spider gears and they gall onto the center pin forcing it to break the locating pin and making the cross shaft spin in the case wallowing out the case holes. I'd say this is more of an issue than the "self destructing" complaint.


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