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Rottella T
#312674
05/09/09 01:25 PM
05/09/09 01:25 PM
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Anonymous
OP
Unregistered
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Anonymous
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I am using Rottella T in my 440 Motor with about 1500 miles on it since rebuild. I heard that Rottella T is best for flat tappet motors. But I recently heard that it causes sludge build up. When I had the valve covers off every thing looked fine. I only drive about 700 miles a year. And change the oil once a year. Should I change to another oil or use the regular 10-40 modern oils with a separate zinc additive?
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Re: Rottella T
#312677
05/09/09 01:54 PM
05/09/09 01:54 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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keep using it. The new Rotella doesn't have as much zinc as the old plastic white gallon jugs of it did but just add a zinc additive, use a good filter, frequent changes & you're good.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Rottella T
#312678
05/09/09 03:20 PM
05/09/09 03:20 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Quote:
I am using Rottella T in my 440 Motor with about 1500 miles on it since rebuild. I heard that Rottella T is best for flat tappet motors. But I recently heard that it causes sludge build up. When I had the valve covers off every thing looked fine. I only drive about 700 miles a year. And change the oil once a year. Should I change to another oil or use the regular 10-40 modern oils with a separate zinc additive?
Modern 10-40 with zinc additive. Most ( if not all ) new - 2010 diesel engines are going to after treatment ( convertors ) to meet new diesel emissions specs, so you can scratch using diesel oil for the hi zinc content shortly.
Last edited by Crizila; 05/09/09 03:29 PM.
Fastest 300
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Re: Rottella T
[Re: dOc !]
#312680
05/09/09 03:33 PM
05/09/09 03:33 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
Crizila
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master
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506
Az
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Again, I'd use an additive. A lot of whats out there ( lists of oils with hi zinc content ) is dated - not to mention all over the place re: just how much is in it.
Fastest 300
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Re: Rottella T
[Re: dOc !]
#312683
05/09/09 03:43 PM
05/09/09 03:43 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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not sure but I have a couple of the good jugs left & I will check(& take pics) of an old/new container when I get out there(my new garage)
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Rottella T
#312686
05/09/09 06:54 PM
05/09/09 06:54 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 863
Pinelands , NJ
joelson6
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 863
Pinelands , NJ
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i've switched to rotella and i use a zinc additive and no problems yet. prior to that, i ran mobil 1 in my 440 and didnt have any problems. what i've herd is that you don't want to use any oil that says "energy conserving" oil can be a very touchy subject with some people.  Greg
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Re: Rottella T
[Re: CompSyn]
#312688
05/09/09 08:48 PM
05/09/09 08:48 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819
Kirkland, Washington
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Quote:
The new API rating for diesel oil is CJ-4. The new CJ-4 oil is Ultra-low sulfur diesel (ULSD) for newer diesel emissions. The older API diesel oil rating is CI-4+ and is getting harder to find. In fact I talked with a parts department manager the other day who told me he cannot get the CI-4+ any longer. But there are a hand full of specialty companies still producing the CI-4+ diesel oil.
CompSyn
Depends on the weight. In 15w-40 that is true. But you can still buy Chevron Delo CI (not even CI+) in 10w-30.
So far tests have shown that Rotella and Chevron still have marginally acceptable ZN levels (1250-1500 ppm from Staveley tests) but that could change at any time WITHOUT rolling the designation to CL.
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Re: Rottella T
#312689
05/09/09 08:53 PM
05/09/09 08:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819
Kirkland, Washington
Pacnorthcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 21,819
Kirkland, Washington
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Quote:
I am using Rottella T in my 440 Motor with about 1500 miles on it since rebuild. I heard that Rottella T is best for flat tappet motors. But I recently heard that it causes sludge build up. When I had the valve covers off every thing looked fine. I only drive about 700 miles a year. And change the oil once a year. Should I change to another oil or use the regular 10-40 modern oils with a separate zinc additive?
Rotella is NOT known for sludge build up. Weight wise the most likely oils to sludge are 10w-40 due to their high viscosity improver content. Synthetics not included (they don't need high amount to reach that weight designation)
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Re: Rottella T
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#312690
05/09/09 11:04 PM
05/09/09 11:04 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOc !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
In fact I talked with a parts department manager the other day who told me he cannot get the CI-4+ any longer. But there are a hand full of specialty companies still producing the CI-4+ diesel oil.
TS was closed by the time I got there but I made it to Menards .....
They have a BUNCH of Rotella that has a CI-4 rating.
Anyone see the ad that CompCams has ....with that special coating they have now ?
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Re: Rottella T
[Re: dOc !]
#312691
05/10/09 12:26 AM
05/10/09 12:26 AM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,884
Michigan
MNobody
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,884
Michigan
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Quote:
Quote:
In fact I talked with a parts department manager the other day who told me he cannot get the CI-4+ any longer. But there are a hand full of specialty companies still producing the CI-4+ diesel oil.
TS was closed by the time I got there but I made it to Menards .....
They have a BUNCH of Rotella that has a CI-4 rating.
Anyone see the ad that CompCams has ....with that special coating they have now ?
Wow the Menard's near Jackson, MI. only had cj-4 15w-40 i've been running that in mine with a solid cam with no issues but i hav'nt put a ton of miles on it either.
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Re: Rottella T
[Re: greenfire]
#312695
05/10/09 01:53 AM
05/10/09 01:53 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,201
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,201
Someplace you aren't
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The syn Rotella in the blue jug is spendy but a great oil for the money. I bought a ton back when it was 15 bucks a gallon and used it in lots of stuff.
I want my fair share
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Re: Rottella T
[Re: Crizila]
#312699
05/10/09 10:28 AM
05/10/09 10:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
62maxwgn
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,436
Blair County,PA
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Quote:
Quote:
Cool ...THX
Is that CI an "industry" rating ?
CI is an industry rating. Has nothing to do with zinc content. Believe the older Rotella T was 1400 ppm zinc while the newer stuff is 1200ppm. Still the best out there for zinc content. Understand you can get it at Farm&Fleet, some Walmarts, and most truck stops.
I posted this quite some time ago,I'll do it again.The only way you will know the zinc content is have an analysis done.
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Re: Rottella T
[Re: dOc !]
#312701
05/10/09 09:20 PM
05/10/09 09:20 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 571
Western NC
68Bullit
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 571
Western NC
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Quote:
I would use a roller but since the roller lifters I have heard of here and elsewhere are not reliable .....I will pass on that idea.
Interesting. What's happening now with the newer roller lifters? I've seen something about this in another thread but couldn't remember exactly what was being discussed at the time. Can you tell more?
Next thing. Maybe a little off topic, but what exactly makes a "flat tappet" cam vulnerable now opposed to several years ago. I know the quality of oil has changed and the zinc/phosphourous is way less nowadays (for a flat tappet cam), but what makes the roller a stronger cam that it doesn't need the same amount of zinc? Is the flat tappet cam just weaker? Made of a lesser strength of metal?
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Re: Rottella T
[Re: 68Bullit]
#312702
05/10/09 09:54 PM
05/10/09 09:54 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,106
Chicago Blackhawks
hemicar1971
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,106
Chicago Blackhawks
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I emailed Shell a while ago about Rottela. I got an email back and also phoned and talked to one of the Reps. They said Rottela has now 1200 ppm and recommended the Racing Oil that had 1500+ PPM. They recommended Pennzoil Racing Oil mainly because Shells owns them. I have heard Val.Racing Oil is Good and also Royal Purple. I have been using Val. Racing Oil 40 weight for years and now am almost out of it so I need to buy some more oil for use in the solid lifter cam motor.
1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY
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Re: Rottella T
[Re: 68Bullit]
#312703
05/10/09 10:02 PM
05/10/09 10:02 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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[quote), but what makes the roller a stronger cam that it doesn't need the same amount of zinc?
The rolling friction is way less than the sliding friction of the flat tappet lobe/lifter setup
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Rottella T
[Re: hemicar1971]
#312704
05/10/09 10:21 PM
05/10/09 10:21 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 571
Western NC
68Bullit
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 571
Western NC
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Quote:
I have heard Val.Racing Oil is Good and also Royal Purple.
I talked to a rep with Royal Purple and was impressed with their knowledge and understanding of the importance of using the right oils with flat tappets. The rep was of course biased toward his own RP brand, but he advised to just pick a good synthetic (of any brand), and avoid using addtives that we really don't know much about. Some additives with too much zinc could cause an ashing effect, which of course is bad. GM EOS as an example, warns against use after break-ins, and states on the bottle not to use as an engine "additive" 
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Re: Rottella T
[Re: 68Bullit]
#312707
05/11/09 03:25 AM
05/11/09 03:25 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOc !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
I've been looking very seriously into a roller cam to be retrofitted into my LA 360. Giving 2nd thoughts now that I'm hearing more about problematic lifters 
MY thoughts ...almost exactly. But I was thinking more in-the-line of a RB engine for an RV application.
Some of these RV/towing cams that Crane and CC make have radical high lifts, short duration, quick ramps and absolutely require the usage of a roller lifter(a flat tappet cam would go "flat" in no time) .....
B U T ...I have yet to see any type of reliability testing on these aftermarket parts. And I have heard many horror-stories HERE and elsewhere about these lifters failing.
What specifically ? ....guide bars falling off ... and the rollers coming apart and filling the motor with that junk.
WHEN the aftermarket can convince me of a fail-safe part(like the OEM has) ...I will stick with a flat tapet cam and USE the good-oil 
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Re: Rottella T
[Re: 68Bullit]
#312708
05/11/09 03:14 PM
05/11/09 03:14 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
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Quote:
Interesting. What's happening now with the newer roller lifters? I've seen something about this in another thread but couldn't remember exactly what was being discussed at the time. Can you tell more?
We see OEM hydraulic roller lifters holding up well for several 100k miles. But I wouldn’t put that much merit into an aftermarket set in high performance applications. In my view, more moving parts means more moving parts that could go wrong.
Also, the founder of Schubeck lifters warned of using roller lifters that have needle bearings in them likening them to a ticking time bomb. Instead, Joe Schubeck had a roller lifter design that utilized pressurized oil from the motor rather than the needle bearings. That would be the way to go if you wanted to run a roller lifter.
Quote:
Next thing. Maybe a little off topic, but what exactly makes a "flat tappet" cam vulnerable now opposed to several years ago. I know the quality of oil has changed and the zinc/phosphourous is way less nowadays (for a flat tappet cam), but what makes the roller a stronger cam that it doesn't need the same amount of zinc? Is the flat tappet cam just weaker? Made of a lesser strength of metal?
Roller lifters have a roller on the side of the tappet that meets the cam lobe. Because of this design, the coefficient of friction is greatly reduced when compared to a flat-tappet lifter which is basically a flat piece of metal that comes directly into contact with the cam lobe which slides over the cam lobe when in operation. As a result, a flat-tappet lifter has no provision in of itself to reduce friction like the roller lifter. This is why flat tappet cams rely primarily on anti-wear additives like Zinc & Phosphorous in motor oil to reduce the metal-to-metal contact friction.
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Re: Rottella T
[Re: CompSyn]
#312709
05/11/09 03:24 PM
05/11/09 03:24 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
scratchnfotraction
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
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my stock roller lifter have well over 150,000 miles and I swaped them to another roller block with a lunati roller cam .485/.485 lift and comp 901 springs 2 yrs ago all stock valve train and not a problem yet turns right up to 6000 rpms with no valve float ticking time bomb?...maybe..but I bet the rest will let go first on this 88 high milage jy cop motor  runwhatyabrung 
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Re: Rottella T
[Re: scratchnfotraction]
#312710
05/11/09 03:35 PM
05/11/09 03:35 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
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Quote:
my stock roller lifter have well over 150,000 miles and I swaped them to another roller block with a lunati roller cam .485/.485 lift and comp 901 springs 2 yrs ago
all stock valve train and not a problem yet
turns right up to 6000 rpms with no valve float
ticking time bomb?...maybe..but I bet the rest will let go first on this 88 high milage jy cop motor
runwhatyabrung
That’s right “stock” or in other words “OEM” roller lifters probably have a little more quality assurance than something you might get from an aftermarket retrofit kit; the kind people are reporting issues with.
Also, .485/.485 is conservative for a roller cam.
You prove the point well.
Wonder if we could find out what vendors the OEMs use?
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Re: Rottella T
[Re: patrick]
#312712
05/11/09 04:05 PM
05/11/09 04:05 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
scratchnfotraction
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Florida
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Umm? I prove what point well? that "oem" roller lifters are reliable or my cam is conservative? I would think that the roller lifters that ou812 has that have been modded to address some of the probs would be the ticket longer skirts around the roller to keep it from uncovering the oil galley with high lifts and edm/pressurized oiling to the neddle bearings and link bar away from the block and to the inside would be the way to go,seems they did there home work for longevity to me  dont know what all probs there could be..but roller lifters have been around since the 1800s but again its qaulity control,I geuss that make the diff 
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Re: Rottella T
[Re: patrick]
#312714
05/11/09 07:23 PM
05/11/09 07:23 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
dOc !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
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Quote:
Quote:
Slightly OT ....
Anyone here know the designation on any oil container that indicates heavy zinc content?
I have got a couple of motors going together and will be using NON-roller cam.
I would use a roller but since the roller lifters I have heard of here and elsewhere are not reliable .....I will pass on that idea.
hmm...roller lifters have only been in small block mopars for 24 years now......the OEM hydraulic rollers are VERY reliable.
Hey patrick .... take a look at my 3:25am post.
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Re: Rottella T
[Re: dOc !]
#312715
05/12/09 08:46 AM
05/12/09 08:46 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
patrick
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,123
Grand Haven, MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Slightly OT ....
Anyone here know the designation on any oil container that indicates heavy zinc content?
I have got a couple of motors going together and will be using NON-roller cam.
I would use a roller but since the roller lifters I have heard of here and elsewhere are not reliable .....I will pass on that idea.
hmm...roller lifters have only been in small block mopars for 24 years now......the OEM hydraulic rollers are VERY reliable.
Hey patrick .... take a look at my 3:25am post.
BB app is a little different animal. also, I think most of the problems seen are with solid rollers, very aggressive ramps, and lots of spring pressure. a hydraulic roller lifter from a reputable company (comp, crower, etc), with a not-quite so aggressive lobe so you can keep the spring pressures down a bit I think would live fine. I'd be more concerned in a BB app about the bronze dist. drive gear from a longevity standpoint. although I thought crane used to make hydraulic street rollers with a pressed on cast gear so you didn't need to run a bronze dist drive gear.
1976 Spinnaker White Plymouth Duster, /6 A833OD
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2011 Toxic Orange Dodge Charger R/T
2017 Grand Cherokee Overland
2014 Jeep Cherokee Latitude (holy crap, my daughter is driving)
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Re: Rottella T
[Re: Pacnorthcuda]
#312716
05/13/09 05:33 PM
05/13/09 05:33 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,179
S.E. Conn
Hoof Hearted
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,179
S.E. Conn
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Just got 2 One gallon jugs of Rotella T 15w-40 from my local autozone. They had 2 different ones. I got the older(?) Not-as-emmisions-friendly jugs for $13.49 each. Mine reads: Meets API SERVICE CJ-4, CI-4PLUS, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SM, SL, SJ.  Hope I got the right one or as they say, the lesser of two evils.
2005 300C Hemi
2014 Ram ProMaster 2500
I Rekey, Repin old Chrysler locks and cut keys by code
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Re: Rottella T
[Re: Hoof Hearted]
#312717
05/13/09 10:05 PM
05/13/09 10:05 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
CompSyn
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,285
Pacific NW USA
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Quote:
Just got 2 One gallon jugs of Rotella T 15w-40 from my local autozone. They had 2 different ones.
I got the older(?) Not-as-emmisions-friendly jugs for $13.49 each.
Mine reads: Meets API SERVICE CJ-4, CI-4PLUS, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SM, SL, SJ.
Hope I got the right one or as they say, the lesser of two evils.
If the API specs begins with CJ-4, then you got the newer CJ-4 and not the earlier CI-4+
As it goes, they tell us the CJ-4 is backwards compatible with the previous specs: CI-4PLUS, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SM, SL, SJ.
Of course we've heard the term backwards compatible before when the API (SM) spec came out, and we know how that one panned out.
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