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Rottella T

Posted By: Anonymous

Rottella T - 05/09/09 05:25 PM

I am using Rottella T in my 440 Motor with about 1500 miles on it since rebuild. I heard that Rottella T is best for flat tappet motors. But I recently heard that it causes sludge build up. When I had the valve covers off every thing looked fine. I only drive about 700 miles a year. And change the oil once a year. Should I change to another oil or use the regular 10-40 modern oils with a separate zinc additive?
Posted By: 67DodgeCharger

Re: Rottella T - 05/09/09 05:31 PM

It might look good in the rocker area but when it builds up in the lifter valley you will have lifter failure. A good synthetic oil will protect the valvetrain. But like the show you may have watch this morning an additive with a good motor oil will protect your motor.

I used a rottella for the breakin on my motor and it worked great. Then I used a regular motor oil for 500 miles and then switched to a good synthetic afterwards. It has 3000 miles on it now and holds good oil pressure. This is my daily driver so I put about 10K miles per year.
Posted By: ademon

Re: Rottella T - 05/09/09 05:50 PM

I hear different, it is heavy in detergents an keeps the engine very clean, i don't know how often truckers change their oil but i'm sure its not 3K.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Rottella T - 05/09/09 05:54 PM

keep using it. The new Rotella doesn't have as much zinc as the old plastic white gallon jugs of it did but just add a zinc additive, use a good filter, frequent changes & you're good.
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Rottella T - 05/09/09 07:20 PM

Quote:

I am using Rottella T in my 440 Motor with about 1500 miles on it since rebuild. I heard that Rottella T is best for flat tappet motors. But I recently heard that it causes sludge build up. When I had the valve covers off every thing looked fine. I only drive about 700 miles a year. And change the oil once a year. Should I change to another oil or use the regular 10-40 modern oils with a separate zinc additive?

Modern 10-40 with zinc additive. Most ( if not all ) new - 2010 diesel engines are going to after treatment ( convertors ) to meet new diesel emissions specs, so you can scratch using diesel oil for the hi zinc content shortly.
Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Rottella T - 05/09/09 07:25 PM

Slightly OT ....

Anyone here know the designation on any oil container that indicates heavy zinc content?

I have got a couple of motors going together and will be using NON-roller cam.

I would use a roller but since the roller lifters I have heard of here and elsewhere are not reliable .....I will pass on that idea.
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Rottella T - 05/09/09 07:33 PM

Again, I'd use an additive. A lot of whats out there ( lists of oils with hi zinc content ) is dated - not to mention all over the place re: just how much is in it.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Rottella T - 05/09/09 07:37 PM

Quote:

Anyone here know the designation on any oil container that indicates heavy zinc content?


I think the orig rotella jugs had "CI"
Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Rottella T - 05/09/09 07:41 PM

Cool ...THX

Is that CI an "industry" rating ?
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Rottella T - 05/09/09 07:43 PM

not sure but I have a couple of the good jugs left & I will check(& take pics) of an old/new container when I get out there(my new garage)
Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Rottella T - 05/09/09 07:47 PM

I am going into-town later and will stop-off at Tractor Supply and see what is on their oil containers.

They have a pretty good selection of specialty diesel and HD tractor oils.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Rottella T - 05/09/09 10:08 PM

Quote:

Tractor Supply

that's where I got mine at & ~2 years ago they switched to the new stuff. Same shape white gallon jug but w a different label and definitely not "CI". I think the new letters are "CL" OR "CJ"
Posted By: joelson6

Re: Rottella T - 05/09/09 10:54 PM

i've switched to rotella and i use a zinc additive and no problems yet.


prior to that, i ran mobil 1 in my 440 and didnt have any problems.

what i've herd is that you don't want to use any oil that says "energy conserving"


oil can be a very touchy subject with some people.


Greg
Posted By: CompSyn

Re: Rottella T - 05/10/09 12:37 AM

The new API rating for diesel oil is CJ-4. The new CJ-4 oil is Ultra-low sulfur diesel (ULSD) for newer diesel emissions. The older API diesel oil rating is CI-4+ and is getting harder to find. In fact I talked with a parts department manager the other day who told me he cannot get the CI-4+ any longer. But there are a hand full of specialty companies still producing the CI-4+ diesel oil.

CompSyn
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Rottella T - 05/10/09 12:48 AM

Quote:

The new API rating for diesel oil is CJ-4. The new CJ-4 oil is Ultra-low sulfur diesel (ULSD) for newer diesel emissions. The older API diesel oil rating is CI-4+ and is getting harder to find. In fact I talked with a parts department manager the other day who told me he cannot get the CI-4+ any longer. But there are a hand full of specialty companies still producing the CI-4+ diesel oil.

CompSyn



Depends on the weight. In 15w-40 that is true. But you can still buy Chevron Delo CI (not even CI+) in 10w-30.
So far tests have shown that Rotella and Chevron still have marginally acceptable ZN levels (1250-1500 ppm from Staveley tests) but that could change at any time WITHOUT rolling the designation to CL.
Posted By: Pacnorthcuda

Re: Rottella T - 05/10/09 12:53 AM

Quote:

I am using Rottella T in my 440 Motor with about 1500 miles on it since rebuild. I heard that Rottella T is best for flat tappet motors. But I recently heard that it causes sludge build up. When I had the valve covers off every thing looked fine. I only drive about 700 miles a year. And change the oil once a year. Should I change to another oil or use the regular 10-40 modern oils with a separate zinc additive?



Rotella is NOT known for sludge build up. Weight wise the most likely oils to sludge are 10w-40 due to their high viscosity improver content. Synthetics not included (they don't need high amount to reach that weight designation)
Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Rottella T - 05/10/09 03:04 AM

Quote:




In fact I talked with a parts department manager the other day who told me he cannot get the CI-4+ any longer. But there are a hand full of specialty companies still producing the CI-4+ diesel oil.





TS was closed by the time I got there but I made it to Menards .....

They have a BUNCH of Rotella that has a CI-4 rating.

Anyone see the ad that CompCams has ....with that special coating they have now ?
Posted By: MNobody

Re: Rottella T - 05/10/09 04:26 AM

Quote:

Quote:




In fact I talked with a parts department manager the other day who told me he cannot get the CI-4+ any longer. But there are a hand full of specialty companies still producing the CI-4+ diesel oil.





TS was closed by the time I got there but I made it to Menards .....

They have a BUNCH of Rotella that has a CI-4 rating.

Anyone see the ad that CompCams has ....with that special coating they have now ?




Wow the Menard's near Jackson, MI. only had cj-4 15w-40 i've been running that in mine with a solid cam with no issues but i hav'nt put a ton of miles on it either.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Rottella T - 05/10/09 04:38 AM

Quote:

but I made it to Menards They have a BUNCH of Rotella that has a CI-4 rating.

Buy it, thats real good stuff.
Posted By: 64Post

Re: Rottella T - 05/10/09 04:59 AM

Brad Penn Racing oil, Valvoline Racing, and my favorite Mobil Delvac1 Full Synthetic Diesel oil. YMMV

I also run EDM solid lifters...
Posted By: greenfire

Re: Rottella T - 05/10/09 05:20 AM

i have been running shell rotella t 5w-40 synth in my 96 1400 suzuki intruder motor cycle for about 4 years now, and the bike loves the stuff. no problems at all and i can go a little farther between oil changes as well. all tho it says its a synthetic blend, its still dino cracked but works very well
Posted By: SomeCarGuy

Re: Rottella T - 05/10/09 05:53 AM

The syn Rotella in the blue jug is spendy but a great oil for the money. I bought a ton back when it was 15 bucks a gallon and used it in lots of stuff.
Posted By: redraptor

Re: Rottella T - 05/10/09 11:46 AM

The reason for using Rotella as I've seen in other posts was for the ZDDP content that is no longer in conventional oils because nearly OEM has gone to roller tappets. As far as sludge, that comes from cheap oils, wrong viscosity, short trips, or lack of oil changes. There may be other reasons that I don't know.
Posted By: v269

Re: Rottella T - 05/10/09 12:05 PM

brad penn and amsoil have an adequate amount of zinc and phosphorus, approximately 0.15% phosphorus, and 0.18% zinc.
Posted By: Crizila

Re: Rottella T - 05/10/09 02:14 PM

Quote:

Cool ...THX

Is that CI an "industry" rating ?

CI is an industry rating. Has nothing to do with zinc content. Believe the older Rotella T was 1400 ppm zinc while the newer stuff is 1200ppm. Still the best out there for zinc content. Understand you can get it at Farm&Fleet, some Walmarts, and most truck stops.
Posted By: 62maxwgn

Re: Rottella T - 05/10/09 02:28 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Cool ...THX

Is that CI an "industry" rating ?

CI is an industry rating. Has nothing to do with zinc content. Believe the older Rotella T was 1400 ppm zinc while the newer stuff is 1200ppm. Still the best out there for zinc content. Understand you can get it at Farm&Fleet, some Walmarts, and most truck stops.



I posted this quite some time ago,I'll do it again.The only way you will know the zinc content is have an analysis done.

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Posted By: furygt

Re: Rottella T - 05/10/09 05:35 PM

I use the Rotella in all of my older MOPARS and in my 1981 diesel farm tractor.

A fellow MOPARTS member was recently in his local Tractor Supply Co. store and he told me that they still carry motor oil with zinc and the real, old style green antifreeze. My guess is that some of the older farm tractors and other equipment must have the oil with zinc as well as the old style antifreeze. I know that this is where I am going to purchase my next batch of antifreeze if I can't find the old style locally.

Bill
Posted By: 68Bullit

Re: Rottella T - 05/11/09 01:20 AM

Quote:


I would use a roller but since the roller lifters I have heard of here and elsewhere are not reliable .....I will pass on that idea.



Interesting. What's happening now with the newer roller lifters? I've seen something about this in another thread but couldn't remember exactly what was being discussed at the time. Can you tell more?

Next thing. Maybe a little off topic, but what exactly makes a "flat tappet" cam vulnerable now opposed to several years ago. I know the quality of oil has changed and the zinc/phosphourous is way less nowadays (for a flat tappet cam), but what makes the roller a stronger cam that it doesn't need the same amount of zinc? Is the flat tappet cam just weaker? Made of a lesser strength of metal?
Posted By: hemicar1971

Re: Rottella T - 05/11/09 01:54 AM

I emailed Shell a while ago about Rottela. I got an email back and also phoned and talked to one of the Reps. They said Rottela has now 1200 ppm and recommended the Racing Oil that had 1500+ PPM. They recommended Pennzoil Racing Oil mainly because Shells owns them. I have heard Val.Racing Oil is Good and also Royal Purple. I have been using Val. Racing Oil 40 weight for years and now am almost out of it so I need to buy some more oil for use in the solid lifter cam motor.
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Rottella T - 05/11/09 02:02 AM

[quote), but what makes the roller a stronger cam that it doesn't need the same amount of zinc?

The rolling friction is way less than the sliding friction of the flat tappet lobe/lifter setup
Posted By: 68Bullit

Re: Rottella T - 05/11/09 02:21 AM

Quote:

I have heard Val.Racing Oil is Good and also Royal Purple.



I talked to a rep with Royal Purple and was impressed with their knowledge and understanding of the importance of using the right oils with flat tappets. The rep was of course biased toward his own RP brand, but he advised to just pick a good synthetic (of any brand), and avoid using addtives that we really don't know much about. Some additives with too much zinc could cause an ashing effect, which of course is bad. GM EOS as an example, warns against use after break-ins, and states on the bottle not to use as an engine "additive"
Posted By: 68Bullit

Re: Rottella T - 05/11/09 02:32 AM

Thanks Robert. You know anything about problems with some of the new roller lifters? I've been looking very seriously into a roller cam to be retrofitted into my LA 360. Giving 2nd thoughts now that I'm hearing more about problematic lifters
Posted By: RapidRobert

Re: Rottella T - 05/11/09 02:36 AM

Quote:

You know of anything about problems with the new roller lifters?

Unfortunately I do not but definitely investigate before you invest.
Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Rottella T - 05/11/09 07:25 AM

Quote:



I've been looking very seriously into a roller cam to be retrofitted into my LA 360. Giving 2nd thoughts now that I'm hearing more about problematic lifters



MY thoughts ...almost exactly. But I was thinking more in-the-line of a RB engine for an RV application.

Some of these RV/towing cams that Crane and CC make have radical high lifts, short duration, quick ramps and absolutely require the usage of a roller lifter(a flat tappet cam would go "flat" in no time) .....

B U T ...I have yet to see any type of reliability testing on these aftermarket parts. And I have heard many horror-stories HERE and elsewhere about these lifters failing.

What specifically ? ....guide bars falling off ... and the rollers coming apart and filling the motor with that junk.

WHEN the aftermarket can convince me of a fail-safe part(like the OEM has) ...I will stick with a flat tapet cam and USE the good-oil
Posted By: CompSyn

Re: Rottella T - 05/11/09 07:14 PM

Quote:

Interesting. What's happening now with the newer roller lifters? I've seen something about this in another thread but couldn't remember exactly what was being discussed at the time. Can you tell more?



We see OEM hydraulic roller lifters holding up well for several 100k miles. But I wouldn’t put that much merit into an aftermarket set in high performance applications. In my view, more moving parts means more moving parts that could go wrong.

Also, the founder of Schubeck lifters warned of using roller lifters that have needle bearings in them likening them to a ticking time bomb. Instead, Joe Schubeck had a roller lifter design that utilized pressurized oil from the motor rather than the needle bearings. That would be the way to go if you wanted to run a roller lifter.

Quote:

Next thing. Maybe a little off topic, but what exactly makes a "flat tappet" cam vulnerable now opposed to several years ago. I know the quality of oil has changed and the zinc/phosphourous is way less nowadays (for a flat tappet cam), but what makes the roller a stronger cam that it doesn't need the same amount of zinc? Is the flat tappet cam just weaker? Made of a lesser strength of metal?



Roller lifters have a roller on the side of the tappet that meets the cam lobe. Because of this design, the coefficient of friction is greatly reduced when compared to a flat-tappet lifter which is basically a flat piece of metal that comes directly into contact with the cam lobe which slides over the cam lobe when in operation. As a result, a flat-tappet lifter has no provision in of itself to reduce friction like the roller lifter. This is why flat tappet cams rely primarily on anti-wear additives like Zinc & Phosphorous in motor oil to reduce the metal-to-metal contact friction.

Attached picture 5222420-Amsoil_mopp_amsoil_engine_challen.gif
Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: Rottella T - 05/11/09 07:24 PM

my stock roller lifter have well over 150,000 miles and I swaped them to another roller block with a lunati roller cam .485/.485 lift and comp 901 springs 2 yrs ago


all stock valve train and not a problem yet

turns right up to 6000 rpms with no valve float

ticking time bomb?...maybe..but I bet the rest will let go first on this 88 high milage jy cop motor

runwhatyabrung
Posted By: CompSyn

Re: Rottella T - 05/11/09 07:35 PM

Quote:

my stock roller lifter have well over 150,000 miles and I swaped them to another roller block with a lunati roller cam .485/.485 lift and comp 901 springs 2 yrs ago


all stock valve train and not a problem yet

turns right up to 6000 rpms with no valve float

ticking time bomb?...maybe..but I bet the rest will let go first on this 88 high milage jy cop motor

runwhatyabrung



That’s right “stock” or in other words “OEM” roller lifters probably have a little more quality assurance than something you might get from an aftermarket retrofit kit; the kind people are reporting issues with.

Also, .485/.485 is conservative for a roller cam.

You prove the point well.

Wonder if we could find out what vendors the OEMs use?
Posted By: patrick

Re: Rottella T - 05/11/09 07:47 PM

Quote:

Slightly OT ....

Anyone here know the designation on any oil container that indicates heavy zinc content?

I have got a couple of motors going together and will be using NON-roller cam.

I would use a roller but since the roller lifters I have heard of here and elsewhere are not reliable .....I will pass on that idea.



hmm...roller lifters have only been in small block mopars for 24 years now......the OEM hydraulic rollers are VERY reliable.
Posted By: scratchnfotraction

Re: Rottella T - 05/11/09 08:05 PM

Umm?

I prove what point well?

that "oem" roller lifters are reliable or my cam is conservative?

I would think that the roller lifters that ou812 has that have been modded to address some of the probs would be the ticket

longer skirts around the roller to keep it from uncovering the oil galley with high lifts and edm/pressurized oiling to the neddle bearings
and link bar away from the block and to the inside

would be the way to go,seems they did there home work for longevity to me

dont know what all probs there could be..but roller lifters have been around since the 1800s

but again its qaulity control,I geuss that make the diff

Posted By: CompSyn

Re: Rottella T - 05/11/09 08:32 PM

I’m not disagreeing with you for the most part. Roller lifters are the pinnacle of valve-train technology.

What I’m getting at is the roller lifters that come standard on new vehicles that were engineered to use roller lifters are designed to last the duration and will undoubtedly be reliable.

The question I’m raising is aftermarket type roller lifters you might purchase from Jegs, Summit or other speed shops, and ones designed for use in older engines that didn’t originally utilize roller lifters may have questionable longevity when compared to a new Dodge Hemi over at the car lot.

What I’m talking about is OEM VS. AFTERMARKET.

NOT saying that roller lifters are a bad idea in general.

I believe this is what Doc was getting at as well.
Posted By: dOrk !

Re: Rottella T - 05/11/09 11:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Slightly OT ....

Anyone here know the designation on any oil container that indicates heavy zinc content?

I have got a couple of motors going together and will be using NON-roller cam.

I would use a roller but since the roller lifters I have heard of here and elsewhere are not reliable .....I will pass on that idea.



hmm...roller lifters have only been in small block mopars for 24 years now......the OEM hydraulic rollers are VERY reliable.



Hey patrick .... take a look at my 3:25am post.
Posted By: patrick

Re: Rottella T - 05/12/09 12:46 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Slightly OT ....

Anyone here know the designation on any oil container that indicates heavy zinc content?

I have got a couple of motors going together and will be using NON-roller cam.

I would use a roller but since the roller lifters I have heard of here and elsewhere are not reliable .....I will pass on that idea.



hmm...roller lifters have only been in small block mopars for 24 years now......the OEM hydraulic rollers are VERY reliable.



Hey patrick .... take a look at my 3:25am post.



BB app is a little different animal. also, I think most of the problems seen are with solid rollers, very aggressive ramps, and lots of spring pressure. a hydraulic roller lifter from a reputable company (comp, crower, etc), with a not-quite so aggressive lobe so you can keep the spring pressures down a bit I think would live fine. I'd be more concerned in a BB app about the bronze dist. drive gear from a longevity standpoint. although I thought crane used to make hydraulic street rollers with a pressed on cast gear so you didn't need to run a bronze dist drive gear.
Posted By: Hoof Hearted

Re: Rottella T - 05/13/09 09:33 PM

Just got 2 One gallon jugs of Rotella T 15w-40 from my local autozone. They had 2 different ones.

I got the older(?) Not-as-emmisions-friendly jugs for $13.49 each.

Mine reads: Meets API SERVICE CJ-4, CI-4PLUS, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SM, SL, SJ.

Hope I got the right one or as they say, the lesser of two evils.
Posted By: CompSyn

Re: Rottella T - 05/14/09 02:05 AM

Quote:

Just got 2 One gallon jugs of Rotella T 15w-40 from my local autozone. They had 2 different ones.

I got the older(?) Not-as-emmisions-friendly jugs for $13.49 each.

Mine reads: Meets API SERVICE CJ-4, CI-4PLUS, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SM, SL, SJ.

Hope I got the right one or as they say, the lesser of two evils.



If the API specs begins with CJ-4, then you got the newer CJ-4 and not the earlier CI-4+

As it goes, they tell us the CJ-4 is backwards compatible with the previous specs: CI-4PLUS, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CF/SM, SL, SJ.

Of course we've heard the term backwards compatible before when the API (SM) spec came out, and we know how that one panned out.
Posted By: mayhem148

Re: Rottella T - 05/14/09 02:35 AM

i work on industrial engines offshore for a living. everymonth we send in oil samples for all the equipment that i work on offshore. the oils we use were rotella t and mysella 40 low ash and now pegusas 805. (all from shell.) the samples are sent in to tell us when we need to change the oil. (money saving thing so we dont waste oil by changing to much.) with the mysella and pegasus we change oil and filter every 3000 hours which pretty much adds up to 3 months. with the rotella i changed the oil annually. they would suggest changing the filters but thats it. this is on engines that displace 9390 cubic inches that compress 10 million cubic feet of gas everyday and run 24 hours a day. all they do is work under extreme loads. now i am sorry but after seeing that with my own eyes i will run rotella in everything that i own. the only oil that i have even seen to impress me more than that is royal purple. they have this display thing that grinds 2 pieces of metal together. with regular oil the metal would smoke and grind away. they put one drop of purple mixed with the other and put it on the grinder and it wouldnt even smoke. i am sure you can find it on youtube. anyway i just thought i give my own opinion and experience on the subject.
Posted By: DARTSPORT340

Re: Rottella T - 05/14/09 03:17 AM

I used rottella 30 in all my stuff. When I have a flat tappet car I use rottella with a bottle of GM EOS. My engine builder swears by the stuff.
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