Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: 70charger512]
#2566904
10/20/18 01:25 PM
10/20/18 01:25 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,127
Bend,OR USA
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I have raced my old pump gas Duster on all three types of high traction tires, M/T ET Streets, M/T ET Street Radials and M/T 10.5x31x15W slicks. On your deal I would NOT try radials with the stick shift in the car The reason being is once the radials start to spin, if you let the clutch out quickly, they won't recover or catch until you let off On your deal with the clutch it will be worst than with my old car with a high stall (5200 RPM) 8 inch race converter That car ran 10.00 at 134.+ MPH through the complete three inch exhaust system The bias ply tires will work a lot better on a stick shift car than any drag radial I have heard of so far, you can bog the motor by finding the RPM needed to let the clutch out without spinning them
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 10/20/18 01:27 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: 70charger512]
#2567727
10/22/18 11:05 AM
10/22/18 11:05 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Just like the OLD days.. change over to the slicks once you get to the track then change back when your done.. back then we had the tool box and the slicks
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2567729
10/22/18 11:11 AM
10/22/18 11:11 AM
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257 NC
70charger512
OP
#1 Thread Starter
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OP
#1 Thread Starter
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NC
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Just like the OLD days.. change over to the slicks once you get to the track then change back when your done.. back then we had the tool box and the slicks That's what I was thinking, but where would I put them? They definitely wouldn't fit in the trunk lol.
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: 70charger512]
#2567735
10/22/18 11:18 AM
10/22/18 11:18 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Just like the OLD days.. change over to the slicks once you get to the track then change back when your done.. back then we had the tool box and the slicks That's what I was thinking, but where would I put them? They definitely wouldn't fit in the trunk lol. Slicks in the back seat and the tool box in the trunk
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2567768
10/22/18 12:07 PM
10/22/18 12:07 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,356 north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,356
north of coder
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Just like the OLD days.. change over to the slicks once you get to the track then change back when your done.. back then we had the tool box and the slicks That's what I was thinking, but where would I put them? They definitely wouldn't fit in the trunk lol. Slicks in the back seat and the tool box in the trunk with the tow hubs on the rear, and the tow bar hooked up to the tabs welded to the bumper brackets. floor jack in the trunk of the tow vehicle.
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: moparx]
#2567785
10/22/18 12:31 PM
10/22/18 12:31 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Just like the OLD days.. change over to the slicks once you get to the track then change back when your done.. back then we had the tool box and the slicks That's what I was thinking, but where would I put them? They definitely wouldn't fit in the trunk lol. Slicks in the back seat and the tool box in the trunk with the tow hubs on the rear, and the tow bar hooked up to the tabs welded to the bumper brackets. floor jack in the trunk of the tow vehicle. Back then I didnt have a tow veh.. I had the car itself.. if it broke something like a diff I had to call a buddy that worked for a towing company and see IF he could come and get me.. a couple of times that was REAL hard.. I remember we finally got it out the gate at Detroit dragway and I waited for him to about midnight then we loaded it.. back then we didnt even have a flat bed tow truck
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 10/22/18 12:33 PM.
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: 70charger512]
#2567895
10/22/18 04:58 PM
10/22/18 04:58 PM
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,271 Vista, California
67Satty
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,271
Vista, California
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Just like the OLD days.. change over to the slicks once you get to the track then change back when your done.. back then we had the tool box and the slicks That's what I was thinking, but where would I put them? They definitely wouldn't fit in the trunk lol. You could get yourself some Hoosier Quicktime Pro D.O.T. bias ply slicks and you don't want to change tires at the track. That's what I used to use before I switched to drag radials. IMHO you are overthinking the operating range of the cam/worrying about how much you will have to slip the clutch to get going. You need to keep in mind how much torque even a stock 440 has. Do you have a particular ET you are wanting to run at the strip? That's probably why people are asking how you came up with your 550 hp goal. A stock stroke 440 with almost any of the available stock iron cylinder heads with a mild performance hydraulic cam can get a B-Body into the mid 12s. A true mid 12 second 400+ hp old car is enough to be scary on the street and fun at the track. I see a lot of Mopars at cruise nights and local shows with stroker crankshafts and aluminum heads that on paper should be good for 600-700 hp that I never ever see running at our local 1/8 mile track.
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: 70charger512]
#2567920
10/22/18 05:46 PM
10/22/18 05:46 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,357 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,357
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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I'm just wondering how many more new threads this guy is gonna start before someone finally gives in and tells him his little cam and performer intake will make 550 hp so he's happy?
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#2567967
10/22/18 07:54 PM
10/22/18 07:54 PM
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257 NC
70charger512
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#1 Thread Starter
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OP
#1 Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2018
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NC
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I'm just wondering how many more new threads this guy is gonna start before someone finally gives in and tells him his little cam and performer intake will make 550 hp so he's happy? Buddy i have already decided to get a holley SD before anyone told me about the performer, especially because the performer rpm might have hood clearance issues while the SD wont. I also understand i cant use that small cam, i was asking questions as to why not and how operating rpm works. Funny how people cant comprehend that. What advice do you have?...
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: 67Satty]
#2567971
10/22/18 07:58 PM
10/22/18 07:58 PM
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257 NC
70charger512
OP
#1 Thread Starter
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OP
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Joined: Sep 2018
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NC
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Just like the OLD days.. change over to the slicks once you get to the track then change back when your done.. back then we had the tool box and the slicks That's what I was thinking, but where would I put them? They definitely wouldn't fit in the trunk lol. You could get yourself some Hoosier Quicktime Pro D.O.T. bias ply slicks and you don't want to change tires at the track. That's what I used to use before I switched to drag radials. IMHO you are overthinking the operating range of the cam/worrying about how much you will have to slip the clutch to get going. You need to keep in mind how much torque even a stock 440 has. Do you have a particular ET you are wanting to run at the strip? That's probably why people are asking how you came up with your 550 hp goal. A stock stroke 440 with almost any of the available stock iron cylinder heads with a mild performance hydraulic cam can get a B-Body into the mid 12s. A true mid 12 second 400+ hp old car is enough to be scary on the street and fun at the track. I see a lot of Mopars at cruise nights and local shows with stroker crankshafts and aluminum heads that on paper should be good for 600-700 hp that I never ever see running at our local 1/8 mile track. Oh yeah i know i probably am overthinking it hahah, its just that i dont want to have to rev it to the moon just to move from a stoplight. All i wanted to know was if a bigger cam would require more throttle from a stop and if it would even be significant. Apparently thats too much for anyone to answer lol. And i dont have a particular ET, maybe 11s, obviously i would hope a little faster, but its not like ill go to the strip every weekend and try to go .2 seconds faster than last time. The numbers are just a good middle between stock and full blow drag car.
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: 70charger512]
#2568008
10/22/18 08:52 PM
10/22/18 08:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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In no particular order: 1. Get spare wheels that you can run just for driving to the track & back. Put on a good DOT-legal bias-ply drag tire like the Hoosier QT Pros that someone else mentioned (I've ran them in the past, too). Throw a can or two of Flat-Fix into the trunk in case something happens and you need to limp it home. And buy a good low-PSI tire gauge 'cuz the pressure you'll want driving TO the track is about twice what you'll probably want to run ON the track.
2. With respect to: "All i wanted to know was if a bigger cam would require more throttle from a stop and if it would even be significant. Apparently thats too much for anyone to answer lol.", it's not a question with a Yes or No answer. Your driving style can have as much to do with how you move from a dead stop w/ a stick car as the car itself. The way the engine is tuned can, as well. A small cam with a tune that doesn't run clean under 2000 RPM is going to be more difficult to drive around than a big cam that's tuned to run clean from down low. It sounds like it'll have enough torque that the big question is: "How long will your clutch and/or tires last?" Like I said, it's really not a Yes/No type of question.
3. If you're not experienced at the drag strip... and you're going to be driving a stick car w/ questionable traction... then you need to be prepared for... disappointing ET slips. The car may have the HP to run 11s, but everything else may conspire against you; it might be tough to make a clean pass that even starts with 12.xx. Especially with a stick car, there is simply no short cut for experience gained from track time.
4. In various states of tune (build combinations, etc.), my 440 street car has run 13.8s, 13.2s, 12.5s, 12.2s, 11.7s, 11.2s, 11.0s and 10.5s. At some point that I can't pin down, it probably stopped being viable as a daily driver and turned into a weekend warrior. Building something basic, reliable and doesn't require you to f**k with it on a regular basis can go a long way to offset not having a quicker ET. My car has also spent extended periods of time in various stages of disassembly where the fun of owning and driving it was long forgotten. And then it just gets frustrating... Better to not shoot for the moon and have something you can actually drive and enjoy, rather than something that turns into a never-ending project.
5. BTW, I had to think quite a bit before I decided to reply any more to one of your threads. A couple of days ago IMO you went off on a petulant, self-important, tirade that made me wish I was a moderator who could have cut your cord right then and there. Someone else mentioned your resource pool on here would start to dry up pretty quickly if you didn't manage to chill out, etc. I'll guess it's already quite a bit more shallow than when you made your first post. Not sure what else to say on that topic.
Good luck with your project.
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: 70charger512]
#2568063
10/22/18 10:41 PM
10/22/18 10:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,841 S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,841
S.E. Michigan
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A basic 440 with the little lunati 268 up to maybe as large as a Mopar 509, decent intake, carb, headers and compression. Reworked oe heads. That's all you need. The rest (and there's a lot that isn't being discussed) is up to you.
Develop a feel for what a 440 really is and really does, inherently.
The truth is it's already one of the most badass street engines ever, and needs only a little help to run pretty darn hard.
Learn to build, tune and drive that. Get your feet wet first. Work your way up. Listen to what Brad just told you: he knows his $#1+.
X pile of parts ain't always going to give you Y horsepower. Old dudes with lots of experience make it sound easy, and rattle off specs like it's no big deal. Well, it's no big deal when you've been after it for a long time. I don't recommend starting out with a 10 thousand dollar motor unless you're a trust fund baby.
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: BradH]
#2568113
10/22/18 11:48 PM
10/22/18 11:48 PM
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257 NC
70charger512
OP
#1 Thread Starter
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OP
#1 Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257
NC
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In no particular order: 1. Get spare wheels that you can run just for driving to the track & back. Put on a good DOT-legal bias-ply drag tire like the Hoosier QT Pros that someone else mentioned (I've ran them in the past, too). Throw a can or two of Flat-Fix into the trunk in case something happens and you need to limp it home. And buy a good low-PSI tire gauge 'cuz the pressure you'll want driving TO the track is about twice what you'll probably want to run ON the track.
2. With respect to: "All i wanted to know was if a bigger cam would require more throttle from a stop and if it would even be significant. Apparently thats too much for anyone to answer lol.", it's not a question with a Yes or No answer. Your driving style can have as much to do with how you move from a dead stop w/ a stick car as the car itself. The way the engine is tuned can, as well. A small cam with a tune that doesn't run clean under 2000 RPM is going to be more difficult to drive around than a big cam that's tuned to run clean from down low. It sounds like it'll have enough torque that the big question is: "How long will your clutch and/or tires last?" Like I said, it's really not a Yes/No type of question.
3. If you're not experienced at the drag strip... and you're going to be driving a stick car w/ questionable traction... then you need to be prepared for... disappointing ET slips. The car may have the HP to run 11s, but everything else may conspire against you; it might be tough to make a clean pass that even starts with 12.xx. Especially with a stick car, there is simply no short cut for experience gained from track time.
4. In various states of tune (build combinations, etc.), my 440 street car has run 13.8s, 13.2s, 12.5s, 12.2s, 11.7s, 11.2s, 11.0s and 10.5s. At some point that I can't pin down, it probably stopped being viable as a daily driver and turned into a weekend warrior. Building something basic, reliable and doesn't require you to f**k with it on a regular basis can go a long way to offset not having a quicker ET. My car has also spent extended periods of time in various stages of disassembly where the fun of owning and driving it was long forgotten. And then it just gets frustrating... Better to not shoot for the moon and have something you can actually drive and enjoy, rather than something that turns into a never-ending project.
5. BTW, I had to think quite a bit before I decided to reply any more to one of your threads. A couple of days ago IMO you went off on a petulant, self-important, tirade that made me wish I was a moderator who could have cut your cord right then and there. Someone else mentioned your resource pool on here would start to dry up pretty quickly if you didn't manage to chill out, etc. I'll guess it's already quite a bit more shallow than when you made your first post. Not sure what else to say on that topic.
Good luck with your project. Well, i appreciate ur genuine advice, and ofc there isnt a simple “x size cam will mean you increase x rpm when moving from a stop”, but i just wanted to know from people who have run small stock size cams and huge cams to let me know how it was different in normal driving conditions, the reason i kept asking about the operating rpm, is because im wondering if fhe higher the operating rpm, the more throttle is needed in a stick car. Also, i do plan on only running drag radials (or like you guys have said, hoosier dot slicks) to the track and back, i have bfg radial ta’s for daily driving. And i really dont see how responding to rude people is petulen or self important, i dont see how i needed to chill out when i got unnecessarily rude comments to basic questions.
Last edited by Nick Stevanovski; 10/22/18 11:49 PM.
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: 70charger512]
#2568121
10/23/18 12:04 AM
10/23/18 12:04 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,853 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
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master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,853
Pattison Texas
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Quote from Nick And i really dont see how responding to rude people is petulen or self important, i dont see how i needed to chill out when i got unnecessarily rude comments to basic questions.
Thats the problem, YOU dont see.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: CSK]
#2568185
10/23/18 02:18 AM
10/23/18 02:18 AM
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Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257 NC
70charger512
OP
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OP
#1 Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 257
NC
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Quote from Nick And i really dont see how responding to rude people is petulen or self important, i dont see how i needed to chill out when i got unnecessarily rude comments to basic questions.
Thats the problem, YOU dont see. Please tell me how responding to unnecessarily rude people is petulent or self important....
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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)
[Re: 70charger512]
#2568188
10/23/18 02:41 AM
10/23/18 02:41 AM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424 Florida STAYcation
dOrk !
The village idiot's idiot
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The village idiot's idiot
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 30,424
Florida STAYcation
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Hi Doug ...how's G ? ... Listen more than talk ? .., that's why the big guy upstairs gave us all 2 ears and ONE mouth !
Last edited by Doc Fiberglass; 10/23/18 02:45 AM.
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