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Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: 70charger512] #2566459
10/19/18 01:46 PM
10/19/18 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted By Nick Stevanovski
Originally Posted By Pacnorthcuda
Nick,

You are filling in the blanks for the variables that affect your specific issue.

Like this...

You want 550hp
You don't want to spin the motor past 6000

Those two specifics dictate a cubic inch requirement that is likely higher than 440...likely.

Now you add in the requirement that it be a stump puller (my words) off idle

Now your REALLY making things difficult, if not impossible.

Does that make sense?

But strokers greatly increase low end torque correct? So its very difficult to have a good street driving 550 hp 440?


I drive and test carbs weekly on my stroker 470 which makes around 700 lets say based on my recent 1/8th mile et's and mph. A blast to drive but I've been doing this since the late 80's and if you are not pointed in the right direction when you stab it, things can go REALLY wrong..........Based on your questions I'd say if you had a 450-475 hp 440, you'd be ecstatic........... beer

Last edited by Thumperdart; 10/19/18 01:47 PM.

72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: 65Fury440] #2566562
10/19/18 04:54 PM
10/19/18 04:54 PM
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So. Burlington, Vt.
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Originally Posted By 65Fury440
Originally Posted By csk
This is the same 440 with the cam I run in my street car 512 cid
Hyd roller.


Surprising for me to see the cam in your 440 made more HP than in your 512.

I D/Led Dyno 200, trying to bumble through it now.


Heh heh heh........

You’ve just discovered the big flaw that’s in many engine building simulation software programs.

I built a 446 and a 493 that were very very similar to each other besides the displacement.

On several engine sims the 446 showed higher output.
On the real dyno the 493 was clearly better...... and not by a small amount either.


68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: 70charger512] #2566565
10/19/18 04:56 PM
10/19/18 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted By Nick Stevanovski
Originally Posted By SomeCarGuy
Yep, you don’t learn. Still hung up on same stuff. You might try a book. It won’t talk back when you reject it.

Show me how im hung up. All you were able to do is say i am not an engine builder.


Ah yes, a polemic and soft pedal troll joined the board to ask us questions, then tell us the answers. I’m not the only one to notice, just not as nice as others about it. We can dunk your head under the water, still you won’t drink.

It appeared when you first arrived on the scene you might put together a nice build for everyone to follow. Now it’s painfully clear you won’t get beyond “telling us how it is.” Reminds me if a kid a few years back that asked about an MP cam. He got his info, then lit into 20+ people about how they were messing up by not running his choice of cams. After doing exactly what you are right here. Good luck with your build, you’re gonna need it.


I want my fair share
Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: 70charger512] #2566579
10/19/18 05:25 PM
10/19/18 05:25 PM
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S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
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Ah, more entertainment!

Your first build is fine, I still say do that + change the intake and have fun.

Cam operating range is marketing 101.


Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: fast68plymouth] #2566580
10/19/18 05:30 PM
10/19/18 05:30 PM
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Pattison Texas
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Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
Originally Posted By 65Fury440
Originally Posted By csk
This is the same 440 with the cam I run in my street car 512 cid
Hyd roller.


Surprising for me to see the cam in your 440 made more HP than in your 512.

I D/Led Dyno 200, trying to bumble through it now.


Heh heh heh........

You’ve just discovered the big flaw that’s in many engine building simulation software programs.

I built a 446 and a 493 that were very very similar to each other besides the displacement.

On several engine sims the 446 showed higher output.
On the real dyno the 493 was clearly better...... and not by a small amount either.


Yep I have found the same as you on my old dyno, was trying to show the rpm difference ,same cam & more cid. & as you know it is just a Sim.:)


1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI
512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim
2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5

Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: 70charger512] #2566585
10/19/18 05:35 PM
10/19/18 05:35 PM
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On the other hand if you wanna be hardcore about it, here's what we used to work with. Decide how fast you want to go and install the appropriate combination of parts. Poof. Done.
Really you could just do one of these.

People complained back then (people will always complain)
but there are times I could swear we were more......productive....not the right word but close as I can get right now.

Build a combo that sounds cool and go out there and flog it, work with it.

2018-10-19 15.29.21.jpg

Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: ZIPPY] #2566591
10/19/18 05:56 PM
10/19/18 05:56 PM
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Chicago, IL
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Originally Posted By ZIPPY
On the other hand if you wanna be hardcore about it, here's what we used to work with. Decide how fast you want to go and install the appropriate combination of parts. Poof. Done.
Really you could just do one of these.

People complained back then (people will always complain)
but there are times I could swear we were more......productive....not the right word but close as I can get right now.

Build a combo that sounds cool and go out there and flog it, work with it.


Zippy, I remember that guide! I like how the combos were all about how fast you wanted to run at the track. Before all the dyno racing began, it was all about manning up and running down the 1/4. Those were some good times. I went for the 509 cam combo and man I really thought I was hardcore! haha

Now we have so many options by comparison, its nuts.


2 kids and a dog
Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: 70charger512] #2566609
10/19/18 07:22 PM
10/19/18 07:22 PM
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S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY Offline
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10 years with the 484 cam combo. All I could afford, and no regrets!

13 second combo, ran 12.50s after some effort, and to this day I swear a 12 second car is still a very sweet spot to be in for just general street strip badassery.


Rich H.

Esse Quam Videri




Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: ZIPPY] #2566624
10/19/18 08:06 PM
10/19/18 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted By ZIPPY


Cam operating range is marketing 101.



Zippy, I think you led the OP to figure out the answer to his question in the other thread regarding operating ranges.

Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: ZIPPY] #2566641
10/19/18 08:54 PM
10/19/18 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted By ZIPPY
10 years with the 484 cam combo. All I could afford, and no regrets!

13 second combo, ran 12.50s after some effort, and to this day I swear a 12 second car is still a very sweet spot to be in for just general street strip badassery.


Yep, something to be said for a simple ring and bearing 440 rebuild with cam, intake and headers. The bang for buck is maximized!

Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: BSB67] #2566666
10/19/18 09:37 PM
10/19/18 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted By BSB67
Originally Posted By ZIPPY


Cam operating range is marketing 101.



Zippy, I think you led the OP to figure out the answer to his question in the other thread regarding operating ranges.


I sure hope so, B. I'm trying to be friendly and honest to Nick.

I feel sorry for anyone coming up in "the information age" because the assumption is... manufacturer information is always correct.

Big fan of your Charger and love what you've done with it.

Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: 70charger512] #2566676
10/19/18 09:50 PM
10/19/18 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted By Nick Stevanovski
Originally Posted By Pacnorthcuda
And yes, I think if you are after a true 550hp at the wheels below 6000rpm, you will need a stroked motor. (Unless you go with a power adder of course)

And no, sorry not 550 at the wheels (i wish). At the crank.


Serious questions here.
1. WHY 550hp? why not 525? 600?
2. What is that fastest vehicle you have ever driven?


526 cubes of angry wedge, pushbutton shifted, 9 passenger killer!
Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: ZIPPY] #2566687
10/19/18 10:10 PM
10/19/18 10:10 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Originally Posted By ZIPPY
10 years with the 484 cam combo. All I could afford, and no regrets!

13 second combo, ran 12.50s after some effort, and to this day I swear a 12 second car is still a very sweet spot to be in for just general street strip badassery.
iagree Most street guys that say they have 12 second cars can't run 14.0 seconds let alone in the 12.s,
HUH Dominic grin
Some people listen and learn and get faster and faster like Dominic did, dang his hide anyways up haha
What did I do and help make anyways devil whistling
BTW, we all NEED to and should help others in this sport if we want to continue to be able race at tracks up work twocents

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 10/19/18 10:30 PM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: Cab_Burge] #2566698
10/19/18 10:33 PM
10/19/18 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
Originally Posted By ZIPPY
10 years with the 484 cam combo. All I could afford, and no regrets!

13 second combo, ran 12.50s after some effort, and to this day I swear a 12 second car is still a very sweet spot to be in for just general street strip badassery.
iagree Most street guys that say they have 12 second cars can't run 14.0 seconds let alone in the 12.s,
HUH Dominic grin
Some people listen and learn and get faster and faster like Dominic did, dang his hide anyways up haha
What did I do and help make anyways devil whistling
BTW, we all NEED to and should help others in this sport if we want to continue to be able race at tracks up work twocents


YOU Cab created a MONSTER and I'm very happy with that, neighbors, not so much............ laugh2 I drove a guys turbo Probe and swore it was at LEAST a 13 flat car..........NO where close......We all started somewhere............ beer

Last edited by Thumperdart; 10/19/18 10:34 PM.

72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: 70charger512] #2566699
10/19/18 10:34 PM
10/19/18 10:34 PM
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So anyone that doesnt want to even attempt to help, or tries to be condescending stop replying. 550hp/600tq is just a general combo i want, if i get 525 hp and 580 tq id still be happy. So can someone help explain operating rpm. I understand that theyre not the end all be all of picking a cam, not even close. I have one simple question, since this thread was meant to be simple and it wasnt, ill just make it simple now. Does a 2500-6200 cam require more throttle when letting off the clutch? Would it be alot more throttle than a smaller cam? (I guess two questions)

Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: 70charger512] #2566723
10/20/18 12:03 AM
10/20/18 12:03 AM
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mt. pleasant, PA
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To answer your question, no, you shouldnt have to rev the engine excessively or slip the clutch or anything like that pulling out with a 2500-6200 operating range cam.
I run a .528 solid cam in my stout 440, four speed,3.31 gear daily driver and it has a similar rpm range i believe. Great street manners, easy driving in rush hour stop and go traffic. Couldn't be happier with it.

Best thing i can suggest, is to use the google custom search bar at the top of the screen and do alot of searching and reading. That's what i did, and these guys knowledge and experience didn't steer me wrong.

Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: Diplomat440] #2566725
10/20/18 12:14 AM
10/20/18 12:14 AM
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I would not worry about getting off the line with something like you are wanting to build. I believe with a stock stroke the advertised rpm ranges on the cams will be close. So will the gearing and converter recommendations.
I honestly don't understand why this thread is almost 3 pages long. The op is asking for a really simple recipe.
A stock stroke 440 with stock steel crank, stock (w/arp bolts)rods or new h-beams, and a flat top forged piston close to 0 deck. You'll want a piston with 2.05-2.067 compression height.
Trick Flow cylinder heads,
Any nice hydraulic, or hydraulic roller with anywhere from 230-245 duration and .550 valve lift is gonna get you 525-550 horsepower with tons of torque. `And you will live happily ever after.

Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: 70charger512] #2566744
10/20/18 01:02 AM
10/20/18 01:02 AM
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S.E. Michigan
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Originally Posted By Nick Stevanovski
Does a 2500-6200 cam require more throt.....


Sorry to say it looks like B may have been incorrect, the pointers didn't help. I really tried laugh

Books have a big advantage here in that they give focus....
The reader gets input from only one expert, and in only one style of communication. Here you can sometimes get a consensus, but folks seldom totally agree 100% on every little detail.

Instead of 27 threads with the same stuff I'd kindly suggest read up first and ask questions later.












Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: 70charger512] #2566752
10/20/18 01:24 AM
10/20/18 01:24 AM
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Spring Hill Fl
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Not sure if anywhere in this mess it was communicated that a 500 CI stroker will eat duration. The cam that might have a 3400- 6500 operating range in a 440, might drop maybe by 1000rpm in a 500 CI.

Nick, the marketing guys for the cam companies list the same operating range for a cam in a 383-500 CI, it doesn't work like that.

The cam in my 520 I think was rated from 3500-7000 rpm.
It pulls down to 1800 just fine, and like any other vehicle, when you learn to drive it, can be done efficiently.

When you have big cubes,you will have more torque than you need.

Re: 440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq) [Re: 65Fury440] #2566810
10/20/18 04:06 AM
10/20/18 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted By 65Fury440
Not sure if anywhere in this mess it was communicated that a 500 CI stroker will eat duration. The cam that might have a 3400- 6500 operating range in a 440, might drop maybe by 1000rpm in a 500 CI.
When you have big cubes,you will have more torque than you need.

You also will get a lot more need for good traction and unbreakable drive train parts work shruggy Trust me on this, been there, done that whiney shruggy


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