440 daily driver (550 hp, 600 ft-lb tq)

I am deciding to make yet another thread, since obviously most people wont read and reply to each post on my other threads. So to keep it simple, first heres the link to my original idea: Original 440 build

Fyi it will be a manual 5 or 6 speed, but most likely a 6 speed (tko600 or t56)
1. I have since decided to get the SD intake, and most likely a hydraulic roller cam.
2. If i want to make that power and torque with essentially everything the same, would i need to stroke it?
3. When it comes to a cams operating rpm, if its a 2200-6000 would i have to rev higher in first gear to move it on the street compared to a 1800-6000? Thats what i need to really understand.
4. Any suggestions on hydraulic roller cams (for w/ a stroker or w/o a stroker)? (And preferably with an operating rpm that begins anywhere from idle-2200 and goes to 5800 or more, if im not wrong on how operating rpm works)
5. I may edit this post (and italicize the changes) if i forgot to mention anything
6. What does everyone think about the lunati 60311? Would it work good with either the stock stroke or stroker? Adv duration: 270/278, duration @.050: 219/227, .515/.530 lift, 112 lsa/106icl

Nick, as you know, I run the Lunati 60303 cam

440 .030 over
Oob Stealth heads
.017 below deck, Cometic .027 gaskets for quench
10.2 Compression ratio
Eddy RPM
Holley 850 DP
Headers

833 4 speed, 3.55 gears, 28 inch tires.

Cam was degreed, came in at 106.75. (Was supposed to be 106). I ran it that way for a year or so then advanced 2 degrees to 104.75-----I was bored, don't get too caught up in this detail.

I can pull away from a stop at 1000-1500 rpm as long as I'm light on the throttle until 1900 rpm, then full throttle is OK (and of course will fry the tires).

What I CANT do is pull away from a stop at less than 1900 under moderate or heavy throttle----if I do the engine will lug.
It's all about split second timing of the clutch vs throttle--that's all.

Similarly, I can cruise in 3 or 4th gear at 1500rpm, as long as throttle is LIGHT--if I want to accelerate from this condition I either stay gentle till 1900, or downshift.

And yes, I think if you are after a true 550hp at the wheels below 6000rpm, you will need a stroked motor. (Unless you go with a power adder of course)

Thank you for your reply, and thats why i wanted the 60303 cam, but was told it will limit my numbers well below the 550 hp mark. What are you making?

And no, sorry not 550 at the wheels (i wish). At the crank.

I've never dynoed it, so anything I state is a guess. If I give myself a WIDE range, low to high, I would say

425-525 flywheel hp........I'm sure reality is in there somewhere...LOL.

Lol, any guess on the torque, because id be more than happy with 525? (assuming ur on the high end lol)

Have you driven a 440 before? Chances are you could put that cam in a basic 10-1 short block and slap on OOTB or preferably mildly work heads and have a lot more fun than bench racing like this. It’s really no sweat changing the cam later if you find it doesn’t do what you want.

Unless you hit the mega millions or poweball you might find dollars spent on a mild almost stockish build go further than going hog wild right off the bat. You need to find a local machine shop you can trust or spend the money you’d otherwise spend on fancy stuff shipping in mopar specialist worked over equipment.

Yes....i drive a 440 every day. And id rather not do trial and error starting with a very basic build. Itd be way cheaper and simpler to figure everything out in the beginning. Thats why i have asked so many questions and made so many posts.

Can i only get replies on this thread about the questions i asked? If you have a suggestion or experience with something i brought up on the other thread pls post it on there, the point if this thread was for it to be as simple as possible.

You are not going to make 600 torque without 500 cubes.

You are not going to make 550 HP with a 219 at .050" cam, hydraulic roller or flat tappet.

Does that help?

"Default 500hp" (525hp) BB combo
_ since you asked...the default 600hp combo
_still the default 500 HP street/strip combo
You are not (re)inventing the wheel. You'll need a cam in the mid 250 @.050" to get it done and good heads. Even with a stroker motor.
So it's decision time, are you looking for the HP/TQ numbers or seeking validation for the cam you picked out?

The problem is you are going to do precisely trial and error with what you keep posting. You clearly don’t have the experience in the hobby many have on here, evidenced by not understanding cam selection. HP level, RPM range, etc are not the real deal.

People have given you the gospel over and over and over. The only question left to ask at this point is will you accept it?

And id rather do trial and error on forums than on my car. Every cam suggestion i have gotten starts with an rpm range at 2500 or above. That is why im asking questions. No i havent built an engine. Why do u think im here. Youre right i dont have the complete knowledge on every aspect of motors. thats why im here. I even asked someone to help explain to me how operating rpm ranges affect performance and street use. So congratulations you pointed out that someone that has asked alot of questions is not an expert. Are you proud of yourself? Its not much of an achievement. So are you going to help answer my questions or continue to exert your superiority of engine knowledge? If youre not here to help dont respond.

In a way you could say im seeking some sort of validation. Since the other guy wasnt even willing to help, would you care to educate me on camshaft operating rpm ranges? The reason i keep picking cams with less duration is their rpm ranges. I asked the question in number 3 on the original post. So could you help answer that? Thanks

Yep, you don’t learn. Still hung up on same stuff. You might try a book. It won’t talk back when you reject it.

Nick,

You are filling in the blanks for the variables that affect your specific issue.

Like this...

You want 550hp
You don't want to spin the motor past 6000

Those two specifics dictate a cubic inch requirement that is likely higher than 440...likely.

Now you add in the requirement that it be a stump puller (my words) off idle

Now your REALLY making things difficult, if not impossible.

Does that make sense?

Show me how im hung up. All you were able to do is say i am not an engine builder.

But strokers greatly increase low end torque correct? So its very difficult to have a good street driving 550 hp 440?

Well "good street driving" is kinda vague and people define it differently, but you seem to be caught up in the fact that a performance cam won't pull like a freight train from 1000 rpm. It won't. But it's not a big deal, at least the way I define "good street driving".

When it comes to camshaft selection, IF max RPM is a big factor for you (that's OK...MAX RPM is a big factor for many people and many engines!!!!!). Then a good selection technique is to select a cam with a max powerband that matches your max expected RPM.

After all....why select a cam that's good to 6500 when you never expect to use it?

The Lunati 60303 has a max powerband of about 6000, it's therefore a reasonable choice for you BASED ON MAX RPM.

Now with that comes a minimum.....call it 2000. You have to live with it (at least in terms of THIS cam), but a powerband that starts at 2000 is pretty damn good, for a performance cam.

If you select a cam that's lower....you're rapidly entering the realm of low-PO / stock cams and you simply are NOT going to make big power numbers.

For example, you might find a cam whose powerband starts at 1500, but it's not going to make big power at 6000, and it's not going to reach your 550 hp goal.

And if you Stroke that 440, then your goal of a stump pulling 550hp motor becomes more reasonable.

"Stump pulling" and "high hp" are two variables that are at odds with each other. You can have one or the other,

More cubic inches help the goal of reaching both, much easier.

I think we need to rewind hahah, i didnt mean it would pull at low rpm, i meant itd be easier at a stoplight to go in everyday driving. Thats what i need to learn about cam rpm ranges. With a 2500-6500 cam would i need to slip the clutch at a higher rpm than a smaller cam? Sorry, i wasnt talking about launching, i meant in everyday driving. Do bigger cams require more rpm to move from a stop?

This is an old dyno program, 440 with the small cam you want, 219,227 @ .050, & my heads that are close to the Trick Flow 240, this is gross HP.

"Do bigger cams require more RPM to move from a stop"

At a moderate acceleration rate----no, but it might take a little more throttle/clutch 'finesse'
At a higher acceleration rate----yes

This is the same 440 with the cam I run in my street car 512 cid
Hyd roller.

Csk---where are you getting the 219 227 at 50 numbers. I don't know what the Lunati .050 numbers are but the .000 numbers are 268 272 ( I think)

Nick if you click the link in my sig it will take to my page on the 62 to 65 Mopar site. Near the top it has my first 906 headed 440 build that ended up running a best of 11.49 @ 116. A bit farther down is my 493 build that has run a best of 10.70's @ almost 125. Both are pump gas street builds I drive everywhere. Don't know if it will help you but you may want to look at it. My old 440 build used the MP solid flat tappet .557 cam and my 493 uses a Dwayne Porter solid flat tappet cam that's 264 & 270 @ .050 with .585 & .592 lift with a 110 LSA. It has a little rump rump but the car idles nicely and of course I am an old hot rodder who loves a little rump rump in my hot rods idle. Ron

The OP at the top, 1st post

Why don't you just copy my engine? I have a 512 inch big block in my '65 Coronet with a Doug Nash 5 speed and a 3.23 rearend gear.

The engine made 575 hp on the dyno, 485 rwhp on the chassis dyno and it runs on pump gas. The compression ratio is 10:1, the cam is a hyd roller with 246/246 on 112. Heads are CNC ported, intake is Trick Flow, exhaust is cast iron manifolds and I'm using a Holley Sniper EFI system with Hyperspark ignition. I think it checks all the boxes you want checked. Figure on spending about $10,000 to get an engine like that built. Here is a video of it on the chassis dyno:

https://youtu.be/xG3-_YJGdZ8

This is my 512, same as the 440, just has a stroker crank .I have not dynoed mine, but from the MPH at the track this is pretty close for a corrected for DA # 4050lb 1750 DA 11.33@ 121.1 in full street trim. this is a street car.

What's more important:
That the advice is good, or that you understand what took them years to learn?

People who spent their time helping you are beginning to notice that when they answer your question YOU ASK ANOTHER QUESTION.

I can relate to what you're going through. Getting a specific answer to a question can be like pulling teeth around here.

Surprising for me to see the cam in your 440 made more HP than in your 512.

I D/Led Dyno 200, trying to bumble through it now.

Just wondering what the weight of your car will be with you in it thanks?

Just a little friendly advice, Nick. Remember, this is a free message board, and nobody is entitled to getting responses, yet you're getting a lot of great advice in your posts. You're asking a ten part question and basically expecting to get all the info you want, worded in the way you want it. You've already had probably 5 of the most knowledgeable Mopar engine builders in the country respond to your questions, and each has told you you won't get 550 hp with that small cam (regardless of stroker or 440), but best shot of getting anywhere close to that number with that cam, will be with good heads and a stroker. They have also offered up proven combinations that will for sure get you to that number and beyond, both with a 440 or a stroker, but it will require a more aggressive cam and with that, there may be compromises to what you consider being streetable. Unfortunately, thats it. There is no magic small cam out there. If 550/600 is what is most important (as noted in the title), its very easy to map out a combo that will get you there, just be open to cam choice and budget.

It is more important to understand advice. That's why I ask another question. Im not asking for someone to tell me exactly what to do, and for me to do it without knowing what is even happening. I want to understand why, and have suggestions.

With me in it it should be around 3800-3900, if the weight of 70 charger 440's I read is correct.

I understand I wont get an answer to every question in the way I want. Im hoping one guy could help me understand one thing, and another can help with something else. And i also understand I can't get there with that cam. Again, Thats why I asked someone to explain the idea behind cam operating RPM, because I genuinely dott understand that idea.

Whats interesting about this is that the power went down went going from stock stroke to 512. Why is this? And i may have missed it but what cam do you have?

Read this and see what you think: http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/Lobe.html

It takes a lot of work to test all of those cams.....

I drive and test carbs weekly on my stroker 470 which makes around 700 lets say based on my recent 1/8th mile et's and mph. A blast to drive but I've been doing this since the late 80's and if you are not pointed in the right direction when you stab it, things can go REALLY wrong..........Based on your questions I'd say if you had a 450-475 hp 440, you'd be ecstatic...........

Heh heh heh........

You’ve just discovered the big flaw that’s in many engine building simulation software programs.

I built a 446 and a 493 that were very very similar to each other besides the displacement.

On several engine sims the 446 showed higher output.
On the real dyno the 493 was clearly better...... and not by a small amount either.

Ah yes, a polemic and soft pedal troll joined the board to ask us questions, then tell us the answers. I’m not the only one to notice, just not as nice as others about it. We can dunk your head under the water, still you won’t drink.

It appeared when you first arrived on the scene you might put together a nice build for everyone to follow. Now it’s painfully clear you won’t get beyond “telling us how it is.” Reminds me if a kid a few years back that asked about an MP cam. He got his info, then lit into 20+ people about how they were messing up by not running his choice of cams. After doing exactly what you are right here. Good luck with your build, you’re gonna need it.

Ah, more entertainment!

Your first build is fine, I still say do that + change the intake and have fun.

Cam operating range is marketing 101.

Yep I have found the same as you on my old dyno, was trying to show the rpm difference ,same cam & more cid. & as you know it is just a Sim.:)

On the other hand if you wanna be hardcore about it, here's what we used to work with. Decide how fast you want to go and install the appropriate combination of parts. Poof. Done.
Really you could just do one of these.

People complained back then (people will always complain)
but there are times I could swear we were more......productive....not the right word but close as I can get right now.

Build a combo that sounds cool and go out there and flog it, work with it.

Zippy, I remember that guide! I like how the combos were all about how fast you wanted to run at the track. Before all the dyno racing began, it was all about manning up and running down the 1/4. Those were some good times. I went for the 509 cam combo and man I really thought I was hardcore! haha

Now we have so many options by comparison, its nuts.

10 years with the 484 cam combo. All I could afford, and no regrets!

13 second combo, ran 12.50s after some effort, and to this day I swear a 12 second car is still a very sweet spot to be in for just general street strip badassery.

Zippy, I think you led the OP to figure out the answer to his question in the other thread regarding operating ranges.

Yep, something to be said for a simple ring and bearing 440 rebuild with cam, intake and headers. The bang for buck is maximized!

I sure hope so, B. I'm trying to be friendly and honest to Nick.

I feel sorry for anyone coming up in "the information age" because the assumption is... manufacturer information is always correct.

Big fan of your Charger and love what you've done with it.

Serious questions here.
1. WHY 550hp? why not 525? 600?
2. What is that fastest vehicle you have ever driven?

Most street guys that say they have 12 second cars can't run 14.0 seconds let alone in the 12.s,
HUH Dominic
Some people listen and learn and get faster and faster like Dominic did, dang his hide anyways
What did I do and help make anyways
BTW, we all NEED to and should help others in this sport if we want to continue to be able race at tracks

YOU Cab created a MONSTER and I'm very happy with that, neighbors, not so much............ I drove a guys turbo Probe and swore it was at LEAST a 13 flat car..........NO where close......We all started somewhere............

So anyone that doesnt want to even attempt to help, or tries to be condescending stop replying. 550hp/600tq is just a general combo i want, if i get 525 hp and 580 tq id still be happy. So can someone help explain operating rpm. I understand that theyre not the end all be all of picking a cam, not even close. I have one simple question, since this thread was meant to be simple and it wasnt, ill just make it simple now. Does a 2500-6200 cam require more throttle when letting off the clutch? Would it be alot more throttle than a smaller cam? (I guess two questions)

To answer your question, no, you shouldnt have to rev the engine excessively or slip the clutch or anything like that pulling out with a 2500-6200 operating range cam.
I run a .528 solid cam in my stout 440, four speed,3.31 gear daily driver and it has a similar rpm range i believe. Great street manners, easy driving in rush hour stop and go traffic. Couldn't be happier with it.

Best thing i can suggest, is to use the google custom search bar at the top of the screen and do alot of searching and reading. That's what i did, and these guys knowledge and experience didn't steer me wrong.

I would not worry about getting off the line with something like you are wanting to build. I believe with a stock stroke the advertised rpm ranges on the cams will be close. So will the gearing and converter recommendations.
I honestly don't understand why this thread is almost 3 pages long. The op is asking for a really simple recipe.
A stock stroke 440 with stock steel crank, stock (w/arp bolts)rods or new h-beams, and a flat top forged piston close to 0 deck. You'll want a piston with 2.05-2.067 compression height.
Trick Flow cylinder heads,
Any nice hydraulic, or hydraulic roller with anywhere from 230-245 duration and .550 valve lift is gonna get you 525-550 horsepower with tons of torque. `And you will live happily ever after.

Sorry to say it looks like B may have been incorrect, the pointers didn't help. I really tried

Books have a big advantage here in that they give focus....
The reader gets input from only one expert, and in only one style of communication. Here you can sometimes get a consensus, but folks seldom totally agree 100% on every little detail.

Instead of 27 threads with the same stuff I'd kindly suggest read up first and ask questions later.

Not sure if anywhere in this mess it was communicated that a 500 CI stroker will eat duration. The cam that might have a 3400- 6500 operating range in a 440, might drop maybe by 1000rpm in a 500 CI.

Nick, the marketing guys for the cam companies list the same operating range for a cam in a 383-500 CI, it doesn't work like that.

The cam in my 520 I think was rated from 3500-7000 rpm.
It pulls down to 1800 just fine, and like any other vehicle, when you learn to drive it, can be done efficiently.

When you have big cubes,you will have more torque than you need.

You also will get a lot more need for good traction and unbreakable drive train parts Trust me on this, been there, done that

Of course lol, drag radials for the track (not slicks because i have to drive it there), caltracs, dana 60, dennys hd steel driveshaft? That should be a strong enough driveshaft right? Or should i get the nitrous ready?

I have raced my old pump gas Duster on all three types of high traction tires, M/T ET Streets, M/T ET Street Radials and M/T 10.5x31x15W slicks.
On your deal I would NOT try radials with the stick shift in the car
The reason being is once the radials start to spin, if you let the clutch out quickly, they won't recover or catch until you let off
On your deal with the clutch it will be worst than with my old car with a high stall (5200 RPM) 8 inch race converter That car ran 10.00 at 134.+ MPH through the complete three inch exhaust system
The bias ply tires will work a lot better on a stick shift car than any drag radial I have heard of so far, you can bog the motor by finding the RPM needed to let the clutch out without spinning them

I would 100% use slicks if I had a trailer, the closest damn strip to me is an hour away and I have to drive there and back. I wish I could use slicks.

Just like the OLD days.. change over to the slicks
once you get to the track then change back when
your done.. back then we had the tool box and the
slicks

That's what I was thinking, but where would I put them? They definitely wouldn't fit in the trunk lol.

Slicks in the back seat and the tool box in the trunk

with the tow hubs on the rear, and the tow bar hooked up to the tabs welded to the bumper brackets. floor jack in the trunk of the tow vehicle.

Back then I didnt have a tow veh.. I had the car
itself.. if it broke something like a diff I had
to call a buddy that worked for a towing company
and see IF he could come and get me.. a couple
of times that was REAL hard.. I remember we
finally got it out the gate at Detroit dragway
and I waited for him to about midnight then we
loaded it.. back then we didnt even have a
flat bed tow truck

You could get yourself some Hoosier Quicktime Pro D.O.T. bias ply slicks and you don't want to change tires at the track. That's what I used to use before I switched to drag radials.

IMHO you are overthinking the operating range of the cam/worrying about how much you will have to slip the clutch to get going. You need to keep in mind how much torque even a stock 440 has.

Do you have a particular ET you are wanting to run at the strip? That's probably why people are asking how you came up with your 550 hp goal.

A stock stroke 440 with almost any of the available stock iron cylinder heads with a mild performance hydraulic cam can get a B-Body into the mid 12s. A true mid 12 second 400+ hp old car is enough to be scary on the street and fun at the track.

I see a lot of Mopars at cruise nights and local shows with stroker crankshafts and aluminum heads that on paper should be good for 600-700 hp that I never ever see running at our local 1/8 mile track.

I'm just wondering how many more new threads this guy is gonna start before someone finally gives in and tells him his little cam and performer intake will make 550 hp so he's happy?

Buddy i have already decided to get a holley SD before anyone told me about the performer, especially because the performer rpm might have hood clearance issues while the SD wont. I also understand i cant use that small cam, i was asking questions as to why not and how operating rpm works. Funny how people cant comprehend that. What advice do you have?...

Oh yeah i know i probably am overthinking it hahah, its just that i dont want to have to rev it to the moon just to move from a stoplight. All i wanted to know was if a bigger cam would require more throttle from a stop and if it would even be significant. Apparently thats too much for anyone to answer lol. And i dont have a particular ET, maybe 11s, obviously i would hope a little faster, but its not like ill go to the strip every weekend and try to go .2 seconds faster than last time. The numbers are just a good middle between stock and full blow drag car.

In no particular order:
1. Get spare wheels that you can run just for driving to the track & back. Put on a good DOT-legal bias-ply drag tire like the Hoosier QT Pros that someone else mentioned (I've ran them in the past, too). Throw a can or two of Flat-Fix into the trunk in case something happens and you need to limp it home. And buy a good low-PSI tire gauge 'cuz the pressure you'll want driving TO the track is about twice what you'll probably want to run ON the track.

2. With respect to: "All i wanted to know was if a bigger cam would require more throttle from a stop and if it would even be significant. Apparently thats too much for anyone to answer lol.", it's not a question with a Yes or No answer. Your driving style can have as much to do with how you move from a dead stop w/ a stick car as the car itself. The way the engine is tuned can, as well. A small cam with a tune that doesn't run clean under 2000 RPM is going to be more difficult to drive around than a big cam that's tuned to run clean from down low. It sounds like it'll have enough torque that the big question is: "How long will your clutch and/or tires last?" Like I said, it's really not a Yes/No type of question.

3. If you're not experienced at the drag strip... and you're going to be driving a stick car w/ questionable traction... then you need to be prepared for... disappointing ET slips. The car may have the HP to run 11s, but everything else may conspire against you; it might be tough to make a clean pass that even starts with 12.xx. Especially with a stick car, there is simply no short cut for experience gained from track time.

4. In various states of tune (build combinations, etc.), my 440 street car has run 13.8s, 13.2s, 12.5s, 12.2s, 11.7s, 11.2s, 11.0s and 10.5s. At some point that I can't pin down, it probably stopped being viable as a daily driver and turned into a weekend warrior. Building something basic, reliable and doesn't require you to f**k with it on a regular basis can go a long way to offset not having a quicker ET. My car has also spent extended periods of time in various stages of disassembly where the fun of owning and driving it was long forgotten. And then it just gets frustrating... Better to not shoot for the moon and have something you can actually drive and enjoy, rather than something that turns into a never-ending project.

5. BTW, I had to think quite a bit before I decided to reply any more to one of your threads. A couple of days ago IMO you went off on a petulant, self-important, tirade that made me wish I was a moderator who could have cut your cord right then and there. Someone else mentioned your resource pool on here would start to dry up pretty quickly if you didn't manage to chill out, etc. I'll guess it's already quite a bit more shallow than when you made your first post. Not sure what else to say on that topic.

Good luck with your project.

A basic 440 with the little lunati 268 up to maybe as large as a Mopar 509, decent intake, carb, headers and compression. Reworked oe heads. That's all you need. The rest (and there's a lot that isn't being discussed) is up to you.

Develop a feel for what a 440 really is and really does, inherently.

The truth is it's already one of the most badass street engines ever, and needs only a little help to run pretty darn hard.

Learn to build, tune and drive that. Get your feet wet first.
Work your way up. Listen to what Brad just told you: he knows his $#1+.

X pile of parts ain't always going to give you Y horsepower. Old dudes with lots of experience make it sound easy, and rattle off specs like it's no big deal. Well, it's no big deal when you've been after it for a long time. I don't recommend starting out with a 10 thousand dollar motor unless you're a trust fund baby.

Are you insane? I just talk a good game to the newbies.

Well, i appreciate ur genuine advice, and ofc there isnt a simple “x size cam will mean you increase x rpm when moving from a stop”, but i just wanted to know from people who have run small stock size cams and huge cams to let me know how it was different in normal driving conditions, the reason i kept asking about the operating rpm, is because im wondering if fhe higher the operating rpm, the more throttle is needed in a stick car. Also, i do plan on only running drag radials (or like you guys have said, hoosier dot slicks) to the track and back, i have bfg radial ta’s for daily driving. And i really dont see how responding to rude people is petulen or self important, i dont see how i needed to chill out when i got unnecessarily rude comments to basic questions.

Quote from Nick And i really dont see how responding to rude people is petulen or self important, i dont see how i needed to chill out when i got unnecessarily rude comments to basic questions.

Thats the problem, YOU dont see.

Please tell me how responding to unnecessarily rude people is petulent or self important....

Nice car. Good luck with build.

Hi Doug ...how's G ? ... Listen more than talk ? .., that's why the big guy upstairs gave us all 2 ears and ONE mouth !

Dat be true, think about it Nick

I hope something I offered up helps with your build.


I've been told more than once that I need to put some varnish on the truth; it's not simply that you responded, it's how you responded.

Honestly, I hope your car ends up being a total blast to drive and is worth the time & money you're going to put into it. However, I'm stepping away from your threads now and will let them run their course.

LOL, kid...I tried to help you on one of your first threads. Then it became pretty clear you just wanted someone to agree w/ you, even though you don't have a clue how to accomplish your goal. Good luck.

No. I didnt want someone to agree with me. I wanted people to simply respond without being as rude as possible for no reason. But ok you're right, because I dont know about the most complicated part about engine building, that means I dont have a clue about anything related to cars.

Well I do appreciate you genuinely helping, but of course if someone is rude I wont be nice back.

Yo Nick

I think I see what you’re looking for and not getting here, and I understand why some people are chafing at your persistence.

I’m a child in the engine building hobby compared to some of the pros you’re getting advise from but I have tried 15 or 20 cams in different engines, mostly harleys and small block mopars. So I’m going to tell you what I know about operating ranges, horsepower, and street driving. I’ll try to keep it short.

Cams have personality. Some are smooth from the bottom up, some have a rough spot that can’t be tuned out, some run out of steam early, some need to be revved to get to the power, and some even have a magic sweet spot where the power comes in all of the sudden.

I’ll give you my experiences with some cams in my stickshift 408 stroker smallblock-

With Unported eddy heads: comp extreme high lift .525 hydraulic- great torque, good hp to 5500, came on violently at 2200. Had to either take off hard at 2500 or feather the clutch or else it was a jerky ride past 2200. A stall converter in an auto would have probably fixed that.

Same heads, mopar 557 solid cam: soft on the bottom- needed more gas to take off. Still probably comparable to a stock 318 or 273 off idle- a little choppy but smooth power delivery. Cam specs looked like it’d rev and rev and get gobs of power upstairs but the unported heads with the stroker made power drop off basically after 5k. Still super fun to drive and respectably fast on the street but far from well matched or maxumum power for the operating range- didn’t rev that high and weak off idle. Easy to drive, sounded great, & lots of fun though.

Eddy Heads ported @ shady dell, custom bullet soild cam spec’d by Ryan to match the potential of his heads: stronger all over the place. Only problem was that now there was SPECTACULAR power in the upper rpm range which with my OD 4spd meant that 1st was over in 20 feet and spinning tires, then 2nd gear didn’t tap into that power until 60-70mph. Going sideways around a lonely corner at 35mph is super fun but going sideways because you mashed it on the highway is terrifying! It was for sure a stoplight terror and had the ‘probably 500 crank hp’ bragging rights, but was actually less fun to drive to work or cruise around sometimes. I did have a lot of fun but it was more night time mustang hunting (just stoplight shannanagans not crazy all out streetracing).

Now I’m building a 512 for a 3000lb pickup with 3.21 gears. I’m trying out a comp .507 lift with a split duration in the 240°s. I’m trying to be like the little brother to Andy F’s motor- maybe 80% of his power and 50% of his spending. Time will tell.

Did that help with the operating range thing? A real racer will just put in a converter that constantly accesses the sweet spot for max power but that would be terrible on the street. A true street car would pull smooth and hard off idle but would be unimpressive over 4000. It’s not as cut and dry as operating range numbers- cams will have personality and it will have a lot to do with especially your heads and the whole package in general.

For what you want to do I’d pick something that has a cool sounding idle and I wouldn’t try to keep making power past 5500. A 6000 redline will keep the valvetrain parts affordable and I usually shift around 4k or lower on the street unless I’m really enjoying myself or keeping it revved up in 2nd and playing around in that 3500-5k area through twisties.

Ok I’m done my coffee, time to get to work. Hope this helped and listen to the suggestions above most were made by people much smartener than me

Oh one more thing- a personal rule of thumb learned dynoing my 557 cam- a conservative mustang brand dyno said my 557 combo made 350hp 400tq at yhe wheels. Which means right around 1hp per cubic inch. If you try to get more than 100% volumetric efficiency (more than 1hp/cid) you are talking about stuffing more air in than the cylinder naturally wants to suck which always involves optimizing big ports & intake, big cam, big headers, big rpm. Which will suck off idle unless you have BIG inches. If you shoot for 425hp 500tq I’m pretty sure you will end up with a fun combo that is respectable at the track. If you really need 500hp then build the milder motor with a concentration on upper midrange power and use forged pistons with a little extra ring gap so you can hit it with a 125 shot of nitrous- best of both worlds and cheap unless you fill the bottle every week.

You can cheat a little with good head porting and prep which can yield surprising numbers with a milder combination.

I posted this in another of your threads and I think it might've been deleted.

Just build a 440, flat top pistons, quench (closed combustion chamber like in the Trick Flow 240 heads), pick a solid cam around 245*@.050 lift or a hydro cam around 235*@.050, tune it and learn to drive it.
It will haul ass, sound good, and be easy enough to tune and drive.
Don't worry about the stated cam RPM range becuase there are too many variable that affect it.

also, read this article by AndyF...

http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/Lobe.html