Re: What went wrong?
[Re: tjmarcus1]
#2471432
03/24/18 06:17 PM
03/24/18 06:17 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,389 Planet Earth
RoadRunnerLuva
master
|
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,389
Planet Earth
|
There is something crazy wrong here! It seems everyone has given some good insights. It could be a combination of probs, but I am going with the cam timing is off or the lifters are being crushed by too much preload {just a simple shimming of the rocker shafts would fix this} with this statement, double check cam with degree wheel....also nice Challenger BTW...hope you can straighten this out, good luck!
Plymouth Makes It!
|
|
|
Re: What went wrong?
[Re: B G Racing]
#2548333
09/10/18 12:25 PM
09/10/18 12:25 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,976 Chilliwack B.C. Canada
RUNCHARGER
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,976
Chilliwack B.C. Canada
|
It sounds like he tried to go dot to dot the first time, missed that and cost you some bent valves. Then he really put in the effort and got it dot to dot on the second go? Please. before bolting the heads on find out what the measured centerline is. Your guy probably can't do it. Find someone who can. Oops too late, well I guess it's running anyway.
Last edited by RUNCHARGER; 09/10/18 12:26 PM.
Sheldon
|
|
|
Re: What went wrong?
[Re: Shatar4]
#2548354
09/10/18 01:14 PM
09/10/18 01:14 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495 Shelby mi.
JAKE68
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,495
Shelby mi.
|
Well after i took the motor back out and gave it to the engine builder, he found that he acidently put the timing off by one tooth. I took the heads off and the valves were kissing the pistons leaving a half moon mark on them. Set the heads off to be checked and replaced the lifters with roller rockers. I put the motor back in and its like night and day. Huge difference! Now i just have to get it back on the dyno to see the differemce. Anyone know of one that is around the Detriot area? Called Jakes this morning and they were 3-4 weeks out.
Give me a call and I will see what I can do to get you in earlier Jake
JAKES AUTOMOTIVE
|
|
|
Re: What went wrong?
[Re: dvw]
#2548361
09/10/18 01:23 PM
09/10/18 01:23 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,272 PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
|
"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,272
PA.
|
Some of these "so called" engine builders scare the CRAP out of me.
1970 Duster Edelbrock headed 408 5.984@112.52 422 Indy headed small block 5.982@112.56 mph 9.38@138.67
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
|
|
|
Re: What went wrong?
[Re: Shatar4]
#2548368
09/10/18 01:35 PM
09/10/18 01:35 PM
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,593 Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,593
Great Neck,LI,new york
|
A few lessons learned. There are parts guys that do more than just sell parts Cams MUST be degreed with a wheel and dial indicator. Even good engine builders can make a mistake,they ARE human.I hope he stepped up and took car of the expense you had to endure! Cams and springs really need to be "matched" and checked for accuracy! The right combo of cam & spring can make a huge difference
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
|
|
|
Re: What went wrong?
[Re: Shatar4]
#2548378
09/10/18 01:52 PM
09/10/18 01:52 PM
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219 New York
polyspheric
master
|
master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,219
New York
|
What's the A:F just after the torque drop-off?
Boffin Emeritus
|
|
|
Re: What went wrong?
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#2548382
09/10/18 02:02 PM
09/10/18 02:02 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,719 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
|
I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,719
Bend,OR USA
|
Some of these "so called" engine builders scare the CRAP out of me. Me too The first solid roller cam I bought and installed in a customers 1958 392 (300 motor originally with dual AFB quads and adjustable rocker arms ) stock hemi boat motor in a 18 ft. flat bottom Stevens V drive. It had a solid lifter cam in it before and would rev a little over 6000 RPM in gear on the water according to the customer, not so with the new Sig Erson solid roller race boat camshaft It wouldn't rev past 3000 RPM with that new cam install straight up dot to dot in the water in gear It revved like crazy in the boat out of the water I had my wife take that cam back to Sig Erson three times to have them check it, they swore up and down it was okay I had to wait 5 weeks for them to grind that cam as it was not a standard shelf cam they stock at their factory back then in 1971 They where not real helpful on solving the problem as long as I dealt with Sig Erson younger brother Babe Erson I had that motor in and out of the boat fives times and apart before finding out that the cam had been ground 10 degrees retarded I learned that from one of their older techs on the next to the last call to them when he taught me how to degree the cam on the lobe centers, it was a real eye opener They swore it wasn't their special ground expensive brand new cam shaft, it had to be the timing set or the crankshaft key way being ground in the wrong location and so on and on. They ended up giving me a set of offset cam and crankshaft keyways to get it installed where the lobe centers should have been instead of replacing it with another new one ground properly It was off on the cam card on the lobes a little bit, 2 to 5 degrees at .020 checking it on both intake and exhaust lobes so that should have been a good indicator it was ground wrong from day one to me That was my first experience with a solid roller cam and my last time I bought any Sig Erson products I have learned since then most problems with engines or with other things, end up helping me become better
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 09/10/18 02:05 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
|
|
|
Re: What went wrong?
[Re: Shatar4]
#2548450
09/10/18 04:44 PM
09/10/18 04:44 PM
|
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 896 Missouri
jwb123
super stock
|
super stock
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 896
Missouri
|
I agree with what several said, its a cam timing issue. I would do a cranking compression test and then a running compression test. You should have 160 to 180 lbs of compression at least, and then the running compression test should go to 80% of the cranking when you blip the throttle. If those numbers are low your cam is off. A quick way to tell is rotate the engine to the overlap at TDC, look at the valves one is opening and one is closing, if both vales are the same height your cam is in heads up, if intake is down its advanced, if exhaust is down its retarded. One bad things about a chassis dyno is lack of instrumentation, an engine dyno with exhaust temp sensors, fuel flow, pressure, etc. would really help diagnose the issue. Their is nothing really wrong with your parts, its something with how they were assembled.
|
|
|
Re: What went wrong?
[Re: Shatar4]
#2548495
09/10/18 06:50 PM
09/10/18 06:50 PM
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904 Pattison Texas
CSK
master
|
master
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,904
Pattison Texas
|
Well after i took the motor back out and gave it to the engine builder, he found that he acidently put the timing off by one tooth. I took the heads off and the valves were kissing the pistons leaving a half moon mark on them. Set the heads off to be checked and replaced the lifters with roller rockers. I put the motor back in and its like night and day. Huge difference! Now i just have to get it back on the dyno to see the differemce. Anyone know of one that is around the Detriot area? Called Jakes this morning and they were 3-4 weeks out.
He found the problem !!!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
|
|
|
Re: What went wrong?
[Re: Shatar4]
#2548503
09/10/18 07:03 PM
09/10/18 07:03 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,581 N/E, Michigan
RATTRAP
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,581
N/E, Michigan
|
Anyone know of one that is around the Detriot area? Called Jakes this morning and they were 3-4 weeks out.
You an try Full Throttle racing In Fraser,MI they have a chassis dyno.
|
|
|
|
|