So I am hearing now from a few reputable engine builders that Penn Grade semi synthetic oil is not the go to oil these days and they are having problems with it.
They said on some of their high end builds, the oil is not working out and they are burning up parts.
I need to buy oil and now not sure if the non synthetic dino oil is the way to go.
Any thoughts?

Very few oils are the cause of engine issues. I've never used Brad Penn but I have a hard time believing the oil is an issue, unless they are using the wrong oil for the application.


Most of the boutique oil manufacturers make 7-8 different oils in many many grades. Could be they are using the incorrect oil for the job.

Plenty of other choices if you're not comfortable with the Penn Grade stuff.

Driven
Red Line
Royal Purple
Torco
Champion
Lucas

To name a few

Driven oil was recommended to me now from a reputable source thanks

I'm planning on ditching the Brad Penn for this......

http://www.schaefferoil.com/racing.html

I had heard the Brad Penn has changed a bit since the company was sold. Can't verify this though.

Which Driven oil would be the one to get?
I like 5W30 looks like it's a Joe Gibbs product

LOL, all the while there are tons of engines making big power on parts store bought Valvoline, Mobil One, etc.

Lucas hot rod oil is the best stuff i have ever used. Easily

I wish Best Machine would chime in on this one, they seem to make horse power and I'm pretty sure they don't use it anymore especially in their high end builds.

I stopped using Brad Penn oil, and went to Schaeffers and Driven. Thats all I am going to say.

Which Driven oil, theres a few different types. I'm thinking 5W30

We stopped using BP years ago. A lot of the Engines that come in for freshen ups that run BP have worn rocker shafts and Piston Pins. We only use Driven Brand Oil, every Big Block we Dyno has BR50 in it. In a lot of our high HP Drag engine we use XP3 after dyno but in most cases the HR series oil is a good choice. We use the 15/50 in our bracket style engines.

Many of my buddies run Brad Penn. The stuff feels slippery & doesn't like to come off of your skin but I have never been a fan either for the money. I just run whatever brand oil 10W30 is on sale at that moment when I am in the parts store. Never had an issue with any of them.

At work we just run 10W30 conventional in all of our crate engines & for the race engines we use the Rotella 15W40 Diesel oil.

"Many of my buddies run Brad Penn. The stuff feels slippery & doesn't like to come off of your skin but I have never been a fan either for the money. I just run whatever brand oil 10W30 is on sale at that moment when I am in the parts store. Never had an issue with any of them.

" for the race engines we use the Rotella 15W40 Rotella Diesel oil."

Agree with all of the above!!

Mike

I heard Brad Penn had a tendency to burn pushed tips same with Royal Purple Racing 21 oil.

I run the same but also put some Lucas break in additive with it at each oil change.

Considering you used to be one of the Brad Penn proponents, that a significant statement even without any further comments.

I heard it causes hemorrhoids, too, but do my best to filter out a lot of "static" I hear.

We broke in my engine on "legacy" Brad Penn 30 break-in, but I've got 7 quarts of Driven Hot Rod 10w40 conventional ready to replace it when I drain the pan.

There's also some Amsoil on my oil shelf that will get used if/when I decide to start using synthetics, again.

My issue w/ Lucas, and it could be completely irrational, is that I suspect their Marketing Dept has as much influence on what goes into their oils as their Engineering Dept. Have you seen some of the ZDDP #s they put in some of their oils? They are waaaaay off the "reasonable amount" scale and jumping right into the "too much of anything is NOT a good thing" range.

It also appeared for quite a while that Lucas must have been giving sh!tloads of free product (or buying sh!tloads of advertising) to all the major magazines -- at least the ones that are left -- since virtually every dyno test article they ran used Lucas oil.

I'll pass, thanks.

Your right.... lol...... might be completely irrational
I love the stuff, read lot of reviews from guys who have been using it a few years.
Great on cold startups after car has sat, clings really well

Thanks for this info. What oil grade do you recommend for a street strip 505 440 stroker big block, using a solid flat tappet cam, 259/263 @ 050. My 505 engine dyno'd at 620 HP, fun street car. Would you still recommend 15w-50 Driven Engine Oil like bracket type engines, or use 10w-30 or 10w-40 instead? My 505 stroker had really high oil pressure last time I used Brad Penn 20w-50 oil, so I switched to straight 30W Brad Penn. Reading all this makes me a little leary of using BP oil any longer. Your recommendation is appreciated. Thanks.

Don't you know that Rotella is diesel oil for low rpm and not formulated for a race engine......
LOL, we ran Rotella for years in a SB Chevy motor that got flogged relentlessly running 6.0 index classes. Always looked great at teardown.

Well Lucas oil is a huge oil brand in the trucking and Heavy Highway equipment world and then they branched off into all forms of racing - they have marketing money to burn due to their size - they even have the naming rights to a the colts stadium in Indy. I starting using their hot rod oil in my coronet - seems to work pretty good and maintains pressure better than the Valvoline I used to run - I have not tried anything thing else from them. In the race engines we have switched to the Driven oil (AKA the former Joe Gibbs oil)

Chip, you can roll your eyes all you want, but there is truth to that statement. And what's being sold for diesel oil today isn't the same as it was 5-10 years ago when older blends of Rotella, etc., were a lot of people's go-to oil even for performance gas engines.

* Diesel oils don't generally contain the anti-foaming additives that are found in oils intended for higher RPM applications. I can't say at what point those really come into play, but there's got to a be a reason why certain oils have them and others don't.

* Diesel oils have a much higher ratio of detergents to anti-wear additives. The issue here is those extra detergents are scrubbing away the anti-wear components instead of letting them adhere to the metal surfaces they're intended to protect.

I'm perfectly OK w/ anyone running what works for them. However, there are functional differences between diesel oils and performance gasoline engine oils that I believe people should at least be aware of.

Carry on!

Like you said Brad, even though a lot of folks will tell you it's wrong and won't work...in reality, it works great.

I ran Wal-Mart special in all of my dirt motors.. Never had an oil related issue. Buddy running same class always used the highest dollar crap he could find. No discernable difference in bearings/wear on teardown.

I've used BP, VR1, Diesel oil (old stock "better" oil, additives, etc w A lowly 440 and burn cups and pushrods every 700 miles or so. Pretty !@$!$!$@ frustrating

Fwiw, best oil I've used is a special formulation a local shop had a semilocal refinery brew for them. Shop went out of business and I only have 2 gallons left.
The shop was building alot of USMTS mod motors. Oil seemed/seems like good stuff.

Most of us old time racers kinda have our minds made up especially if we do our own work and engine building. But if you see something you don’t like you better be open minded enough to switch brands. Off topic but for years I was a type F transmission fluid user then 15-18 years ago my transmission builder said to use Walmart type III. Well last year a had a bad transmission issue unrelated to the fluid type and I switched back to type F because of the smell the Walmart brand had. It smelled burnt to me right out of the bottle. I now have a sorse to get type F and do my own transmissions so that will be my fluid now.

I've tried most of the race oils and these days I just use Mobil 1 that I get at Walmart for $4 a quart.

The engine shop I work with uses the Joe Gibbs break in oil on all engines but after break in I switch to 5w-30 Mobil 1.

Due to the endorsements here, I would like to switch to the Driven HR 10-40. Any chance there will be a vendor at the Indy show this weekend?

speedway will ship you driven by the case



www.SPEEDWAYMOTORS.COM

Part # 910038071

Tried posting the link but .. won't allow it for some odd reason

7.99 a quart

WOW! Looks like HR 10-40 is on sale now for $7.25 a qt. And says free shipping after $99.

I'm in. Thanks for the link.

I buy a lot from them, 1 day service for me

IIRC in the past you’ve mentioned guys running lower viscosity than 10w40 have had trouble in tear downs you’ve seen. Appears several here have mentioned 5w30. Could this be an issue and changing brands after an issue crops up isn’t going to solve it?

I've run some 5x30 Valvoline syn. or Mobile-1 syn. through my stuff a few times and no issues at tear downs but usually stick to a 10x30 w/.0025+ rod and .003+ mains street/strip mid 9 second car...............

I find this interesting...For years people were all goo-goo eyed over Brad Penn oil...Now it isn't any good? Amazing..I have just enough for my spring oil change. Is the Wix racing oil filter junk now too?

If you are scared Ted please send it to me. I can get rid of those Wix filters for you too buddy.

From what I understand from reading on other sites out there on the web their under new ownership and the formula has been changed (cheaper maybe)

Have always been a Brad Penn user but last year I switched to VR-1 just because I got a case for a tip from one of my customers.

Gus

I can put it in the car and send it out to ya.....

Pour it into one of those USPS flat rate boxes. LOL

OK...Anything but UPS...United Package Smashers...

Well, everyone is saying it has changed. Nobody is saying exactly what. But I read it on the internet so it must be true.

3 reputable engine builders said they stopped using it for a reason.
I tend to believe 3 engine builders that sump most if not all the engines they build for customers.

I also was using 20/50 Brad Penn running similar motor 604 Hemi solid roller so also would like to hear recommendation. street / strip mostly street

I am also "all ears".

I need oil for my 434 so I e-mailed Driven and asked for a recommendation. For my street/strip application they recommended HR5 10w-40 conventional. I ordered two cases from Speedway.

The tech that replied was Lake Speed Jr., son of former nascar driver Lake Speed who I watched run a bunch of races years ago.

Its impossible for me to recommend one oil that would work for everybody. When we do our engines everything is in our control from bearings, bearing clearance, lifter choice, oil pump, pushrod oiling etc.

But I would suggest for a street / strip car it would be safe to start with the Driven HR 15W-50 Conventional oil, if you have excessive pressure ( 80 + ) with 190 deg oil temp then you might want to try a 10W-40

Chuck ...any experience with the Schaeffers?

Wow... IF I could make one recommendation to all y'all that really need help.

USE WHAT YOUR ENGINE BUILDER TELLS YOU TO USE !!!! PERIOD !!!!!
Most folks dont know jack about oils....

Some engine builders don't know jack about oils....

Not directed towards anybody on here, but just sayin...

Some engine builders don't know jack about building engines, either. But that would be another thread all its own.

So which DRIVEN Race Oil would be good for a race only engine shifting at 7600 small block? Going through the traps at 7770 rpm's

We are using the HR 15/50 in a 572 Wedge and a Hemi. The wedge is shifting at 7100 and going through the traps at 7200. Looking to shift a little higher this year.

Six pages in and not one account of a failure...just rumors. Is this "lube shaming" LOL

We've run Penn Grade (old Brad Penn) for years since losing three separate engines to cam failure. The failures sent debris through the engines and required total rebuilds in all cases. This with flat tappet cams. Since switching to Brad Penn, no failures.

Does anyone have a personal experience with a true, oil-related failure due to Penn Grade? I just bought another case of 10W30, and have no plans to change until proven it's not going to work.

You must have missed this reply from Chuck@Best Machine who I trust, same with Todd@ Competition Wedge. Please read.

We stopped using BP years ago. A lot of the Engines that come in for freshen ups that run BP have worn rocker shafts and Piston Pins. We only use Driven Brand Oil, every Big Block we Dyno has BR50 in it. In a lot of our high HP Drag engine we use XP3 after dyno but in most cases the HR series oil is a good choice. We use the 15/50 in our bracket style engines.

Viscosities could play a role too.
Last time I was checking viscosities of 40 and 50 wt oils, BP had higher viscosity than others I was looking at in the same grades. That could cause flow issues. Just one of many factors of course, but IMO an important one.

I wonder if these same engines seeing wear have vacuum pumps sucking the oil away from piston pins and oil restriction issues to the rockers causing issues. Spray bar oiling??? I run the hell out of my crap and I'm not seeing it on my engines with Brad Penn 10-30. I'm not saying its not happening because those guys see a heck of a lot more engines than I see. Maybe i'm just lucky.

My suggestion is to go to the Driven Racing Oil web site and download their product brochures and tech articles. If you read the details of each of their race oils, you'll often see guidance such as using a Xw30 for bearing clearances up to .0027"; Xw40 for up to .0030", etc. They have enough info across their available downloads that it should give you a pretty good sense of what will work for you.

Spent some time trying to find out what is in XP3. Closest explanation is "proprietary". That doesn't say much. Not knocking it but that "word" is way over used.Just as an example, Castrol does not own oil refineries, oil wells, etc. and does nothing more than blend numerous products from numerous vendors to make numerous blends of oils.Unless you are trying to extract every bit of HP from your combo, 20W50 is the best weight for racing. It is very forgiving, filling voids better than 0W10. Other than high end 500 + miles road race cars, 20W50 keeps all those motors alive in conditions that a drag motor will never see.

So, who in this thread sells Gibbs oil. Asking for a friend.

Check to see if Summit or Amazon carry it just to get at least a ballpark price. I think Greg that manages Keystone is going to be selling Shaffer’s if you want to check that out

That is extremely common among the "boutique" oil companies, which includes most specialty racing oil companies. They do their own R&D w/ the variety of available base stocks & additives and come up with a blend they can call their own.

The history of Joe Gibbs oil (now known as Driven) was Joe Gibbs Racing and several other teams were having issues with the Nascar "sponsor" oil eating cams during break in on the dyno - hence one of his engine builders had the break in oil made to their specifications – As I have been told they had to run the sponsor oil during racing - I would suspect a lot of oil bottles got emptied and filled with their own mix after the break in was done.

I use Gibbs Driven XP-7 synthetic blend high zinc 10w40 in my Duster. That's what the guy I bought it from, said to use, since that's what the original engine shop who built it, said to use. He also said when the engine was built (5 years ago), the engine shop initially used the BR Driven break-in oil on start-up as well.

I always enjoy the stampede mentality. I took some time today to get the information that no one wanted to acquire. SO FOR THOSE THAT HAVE NO REAL KNOWLEDGE....Brad Penn was recently purchased by D A Lubricant in Lebanon IN.THERE HAS BEEN NO CHANGE IN THE FORMULA OF BRAD PENN 1 RACING OIL. Their standard Brad Penn oils, that are daily use blends, have changed to meet today's automotive manufacturers and EPA standards. The mineral oil base of most oils and those of Brad Penn 1 have the ability of keeping additives, that are found in motors oils, in solution and do not settle out because of temp, pressure or aeration. In order for modern motor oils to keep additives in solution, with respect to performance, must have an ester base and that ester base is expensive. So if some one orders the Brad Penn instead of the Brad Penn 1 for their performance engine then that's on you. You should really read the literature that Dave Reher Racing compiled and read his well thought out dissertation of racing oil and their effects. If you want to get rid of Brad Penn 1 oil, then PM me and I'll take it off your hands.No oil related engine failures in over 30 years from 8500 rpm 273,318 stock eliminator, 360 and 440 bracket motors and 396 destroked A/MP motor.