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#2457892 - 02/26/18 12:02 PM Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil
Sammy Offline
super stock

Registered: 12/31/12
Posts: 947
Loc: Wind Gap,Pa.
So I am hearing now from a few reputable engine builders that Penn Grade semi synthetic oil is not the go to oil these days and they are having problems with it.
They said on some of their high end builds, the oil is not working out and they are burning up parts.
I need to buy oil and now not sure if the non synthetic dino oil is the way to go.
Any thoughts?

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#2457898 - 02/26/18 12:26 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
madscientist Offline


Registered: 09/17/14
Posts: 2481
Loc: Washington
Very few oils are the cause of engine issues. I've never used Brad Penn but I have a hard time believing the oil is an issue, unless they are using the wrong oil for the application.


Most of the boutique oil manufacturers make 7-8 different oils in many many grades. Could be they are using the incorrect oil for the job.
_________________________
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston

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#2457899 - 02/26/18 12:28 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
fast68plymouth Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 11478
Loc: So. Burlington, Vt.
Plenty of other choices if you're not comfortable with the Penn Grade stuff.

Driven
Red Line
Royal Purple
Torco
Champion
Lucas

To name a few
_________________________
68 Plymouth Satellite, 383, stock 906's, 3550lbs, 11.18 @ 123, 1.51 60'
WD- Comp Cams / Indy Cylinder Heads

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#2457904 - 02/26/18 12:34 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: fast68plymouth]
Sammy Offline
super stock

Registered: 12/31/12
Posts: 947
Loc: Wind Gap,Pa.
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
Plenty of other choices if you're not comfortable with the Penn Grade stuff.

Driven
Red Line
Royal Purple
Torco
Champion
Lucas

To name a few



Driven oil was recommended to me now from a reputable source thanks

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#2457917 - 02/26/18 01:07 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
Eric Offline


Registered: 07/10/10
Posts: 2387
Loc: Pittsburgh PA
I'm planning on ditching the Brad Penn for this......

http://www.schaefferoil.com/racing.html

I had heard the Brad Penn has changed a bit since the company was sold. Can't verify this though.
_________________________
5.53 @ 125 1/8th on the launch control..more left in her!


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#2457926 - 02/26/18 01:19 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
Sammy Offline
super stock

Registered: 12/31/12
Posts: 947
Loc: Wind Gap,Pa.
Which Driven oil would be the one to get?
I like 5W30 looks like it's a Joe Gibbs product

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#2457928 - 02/26/18 01:23 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 10975
Loc: Marion, South Carolina [><]
LOL, all the while there are tons of engines making big power on parts store bought Valvoline, Mobil One, etc.
_________________________
CHIP
'70 hemicuda...8.91 at 150.5 mph street car...Mopar Action feature Dec. '14
'69 road runner 440 w/ Indy SRs
'69 road runner 440-6, 4 speed...Dad's ride
'71 Demon 340 resto project
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax...toy hauler
'16 Grand Caravan SXT...baby hauler

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#2457960 - 02/26/18 02:32 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
B3422W5 Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10340
Loc: Portage,michigan
Lucas hot rod oil is the best stuff i have ever used. Easily
_________________________
69 Dart GTS, performance upgrades in progress
11.26@ 118.40 best so far. Stock 360 shortblock with eddie heads.
3285 race weight

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#2457966 - 02/26/18 02:43 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
Sammy Offline
super stock

Registered: 12/31/12
Posts: 947
Loc: Wind Gap,Pa.
I wish Best Machine would chime in on this one, they seem to make horse power and I'm pretty sure they don't use it anymore especially in their high end builds.

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#2458058 - 02/26/18 05:32 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
CompWedgeEngines Offline
master

Registered: 11/03/04
Posts: 3477
Loc: Syracuse,NY
I stopped using Brad Penn oil, and went to Schaeffers and Driven. Thats all I am going to say.
_________________________
RIP Monte Smith

Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.

WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.

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#2458060 - 02/26/18 05:38 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: CompWedgeEngines]
Sammy Offline
super stock

Registered: 12/31/12
Posts: 947
Loc: Wind Gap,Pa.
Originally Posted By CompWedgeEngines
I stopped using Brad Penn oil, and went to Schaeffers and Driven. Thats all I am going to say.



Which Driven oil, theres a few different types. I'm thinking 5W30

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#2458315 - 02/27/18 09:30 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
Chuck@Best_Machine Offline


Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 961
Loc: Farmington Hills, Mich
We stopped using BP years ago. A lot of the Engines that come in for freshen ups that run BP have worn rocker shafts and Piston Pins. We only use Driven Brand Oil, every Big Block we Dyno has BR50 in it. In a lot of our high HP Drag engine we use XP3 after dyno but in most cases the HR series oil is a good choice. We use the 15/50 in our bracket style engines.

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#2458332 - 02/27/18 09:56 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Chuck@Best_Machine]
6PKRTSE Offline
master

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 3560
Loc: Motor City
Many of my buddies run Brad Penn. The stuff feels slippery & doesn't like to come off of your skin but I have never been a fan either for the money. I just run whatever brand oil 10W30 is on sale at that moment when I am in the parts store. Never had an issue with any of them.

At work we just run 10W30 conventional in all of our crate engines & for the race engines we use the Rotella 15W40 Diesel oil.


Edited by 6PKRTSE (02/27/18 11:35 AM)
_________________________
1970 Charger R/T S.E. 440 Six Pack
1970 CHALLENGER R/T, 25.5 Cert, Big Inch Alum 16 plug HEMI twin turbo.
1970 Charger 500 S.E. 440 4 BBL
1970 Plymouth Road Runner.
1996 2500 RAM 488 V-10 4X4.
2012 Challenger R/T Classic.

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#2458355 - 02/27/18 10:33 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: 6PKRTSE]
70satelliteguy Offline
super stock

Registered: 07/04/05
Posts: 1159
Loc: Penna
"Many of my buddies run Brad Penn. The stuff feels slippery & doesn't like to come off of your skin but I have never been a fan either for the money. I just run whatever brand oil 10W30 is on sale at that moment when I am in the parts store. Never had an issue with any of them.

" for the race engines we use the Rotella 15W40 Rotella Diesel oil."

Agree with all of the above!!

Mike

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#2458375 - 02/27/18 10:57 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
Sammy Offline
super stock

Registered: 12/31/12
Posts: 947
Loc: Wind Gap,Pa.
I heard Brad Penn had a tendency to burn pushed tips same with Royal Purple Racing 21 oil.

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#2458381 - 02/27/18 11:03 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: 70satelliteguy]
Uncle Barry Offline
super stock

Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 1030
Loc: Big Western Pencilveinya
Originally Posted By 70satelliteguy
"Many of my buddies run Brad Penn. The stuff feels slippery & doesn't like to come off of your skin but I have never been a fan either for the money. I just run whatever brand oil 10W30 is on sale at that moment when I am in the parts store. Never had an issue with any of them.

" for the race engines we use the Rotella 15W40 Rotella Diesel oil."

Agree with all of the above!!

Mike
I run the same but also put some Lucas break in additive with it at each oil change.
_________________________

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#2458400 - 02/27/18 11:35 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: CompWedgeEngines]
BradH Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 14251
Loc: Valhalla... eventually
Originally Posted By CompWedgeEngines
I stopped using Brad Penn oil, and went to Schaeffers and Driven. Thats all I am going to say.

Considering you used to be one of the Brad Penn proponents, that a significant statement even without any further comments.

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#2458405 - 02/27/18 11:41 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
BradH Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 14251
Loc: Valhalla... eventually
Originally Posted By Sammy
I heard Brad Penn had a tendency to burn pushed tips same with Royal Purple Racing 21 oil.

I heard it causes hemorrhoids, too, but do my best to filter out a lot of "static" I hear.

We broke in my engine on "legacy" Brad Penn 30 break-in, but I've got 7 quarts of Driven Hot Rod 10w40 conventional ready to replace it when I drain the pan.

There's also some Amsoil on my oil shelf that will get used if/when I decide to start using synthetics, again.

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#2458411 - 02/27/18 11:48 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: B3422W5]
BradH Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 14251
Loc: Valhalla... eventually
Originally Posted By B3422W5
Lucas hot rod oil is the best stuff i have ever used. Easily

My issue w/ Lucas, and it could be completely irrational, is that I suspect their Marketing Dept has as much influence on what goes into their oils as their Engineering Dept. Have you seen some of the ZDDP #s they put in some of their oils? They are waaaaay off the "reasonable amount" scale and jumping right into the "too much of anything is NOT a good thing" range. down

It also appeared for quite a while that Lucas must have been giving sh!tloads of free product (or buying sh!tloads of advertising) to all the major magazines -- at least the ones that are left -- since virtually every dyno test article they ran used Lucas oil. work

I'll pass, thanks.

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#2458447 - 02/27/18 01:06 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: BradH]
B3422W5 Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 10340
Loc: Portage,michigan
Originally Posted By BradH
Originally Posted By B3422W5
Lucas hot rod oil is the best stuff i have ever used. Easily

My issue w/ Lucas, and it could be completely irrational, is that I suspect their Marketing Dept has as much influence on what goes into their oils as their Engineering Dept. Have you seen some of the ZDDP #s they put in some of their oils? They are waaaaay off the "reasonable amount" scale and jumping right into the "too much of anything is NOT a good thing" range. down

It also appeared for quite a while that Lucas must have been giving sh!tloads of free product (or buying sh!tloads of advertising) to all the major magazines -- at least the ones that are left -- since virtually every dyno test article they ran used Lucas oil. work

I'll pass, thanks.


Your right.... lol...... might be completely irrational
I love the stuff, read lot of reviews from guys who have been using it a few years.
Great on cold startups after car has sat, clings really well
_________________________
69 Dart GTS, performance upgrades in progress
11.26@ 118.40 best so far. Stock 360 shortblock with eddie heads.
3285 race weight

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#2458497 - 02/27/18 02:58 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Chuck@Best_Machine]
1964superstock Offline
mopar

Registered: 10/01/08
Posts: 501
Loc: Utah, USA
Originally Posted By Chuck@Best_Machine
We stopped using BP years ago. A lot of the Engines that come in for freshen ups that run BP have worn rocker shafts and Piston Pins. We only use Driven Brand Oil, every Big Block we Dyno has BR50 in it. In a lot of our high HP Drag engine we use XP3 after dyno but in most cases the HR series oil is a good choice. We use the 15/50 in our bracket style engines.


Thanks for this info. What oil grade do you recommend for a street strip 505 440 stroker big block, using a solid flat tappet cam, 259/263 @ 050. My 505 engine dyno'd at 620 HP, fun street car. Would you still recommend 15w-50 Driven Engine Oil like bracket type engines, or use 10w-30 or 10w-40 instead? My 505 stroker had really high oil pressure last time I used Brad Penn 20w-50 oil, so I switched to straight 30W Brad Penn. Reading all this makes me a little leary of using BP oil any longer. Your recommendation is appreciated. Thanks.

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#2458500 - 02/27/18 03:01 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: 6PKRTSE]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 10975
Loc: Marion, South Carolina [><]
Originally Posted By 6PKRTSE
Many of my buddies run Brad Penn. The stuff feels slippery & doesn't like to come off of your skin but I have never been a fan either for the money. I just run whatever brand oil 10W30 is on sale at that moment when I am in the parts store. Never had an issue with any of them.

At work we just run 10W30 conventional in all of our crate engines & for the race engines we use the Rotella 15W40 Diesel oil.

Don't you know that Rotella is diesel oil for low rpm and not formulated for a race engine...... rolleyes
LOL, we ran Rotella for years in a SB Chevy motor that got flogged relentlessly running 6.0 index classes. Always looked great at teardown.
_________________________
CHIP
'70 hemicuda...8.91 at 150.5 mph street car...Mopar Action feature Dec. '14
'69 road runner 440 w/ Indy SRs
'69 road runner 440-6, 4 speed...Dad's ride
'71 Demon 340 resto project
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax...toy hauler
'16 Grand Caravan SXT...baby hauler

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#2458503 - 02/27/18 03:06 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
DoubleD Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 1922
Loc: NE Ohio
Well Lucas oil is a huge oil brand in the trucking and Heavy Highway equipment world and then they branched off into all forms of racing - they have marketing money to burn due to their size - they even have the naming rights to a the colts stadium in Indy. I starting using their hot rod oil in my coronet - seems to work pretty good and maintains pressure better than the Valvoline I used to run - I have not tried anything thing else from them. In the race engines we have switched to the Driven oil (AKA the former Joe Gibbs oil)

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#2458535 - 02/27/18 04:11 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: an8sec70cuda]
BradH Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 14251
Loc: Valhalla... eventually
Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
... Rotella is diesel oil for low rpm and not formulated for a race engine...

Chip, you can roll your eyes all you want, but there is truth to that statement. And what's being sold for diesel oil today isn't the same as it was 5-10 years ago when older blends of Rotella, etc., were a lot of people's go-to oil even for performance gas engines.

* Diesel oils don't generally contain the anti-foaming additives that are found in oils intended for higher RPM applications. I can't say at what point those really come into play, but there's got to a be a reason why certain oils have them and others don't.

* Diesel oils have a much higher ratio of detergents to anti-wear additives. The issue here is those extra detergents are scrubbing away the anti-wear components instead of letting them adhere to the metal surfaces they're intended to protect.

I'm perfectly OK w/ anyone running what works for them. However, there are functional differences between diesel oils and performance gasoline engine oils that I believe people should at least be aware of.

Carry on! grin

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#2458537 - 02/27/18 04:15 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/19/03
Posts: 10975
Loc: Marion, South Carolina [><]
Like you said Brad, even though a lot of folks will tell you it's wrong and won't work...in reality, it works great.
_________________________
CHIP
'70 hemicuda...8.91 at 150.5 mph street car...Mopar Action feature Dec. '14
'69 road runner 440 w/ Indy SRs
'69 road runner 440-6, 4 speed...Dad's ride
'71 Demon 340 resto project
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax...toy hauler
'16 Grand Caravan SXT...baby hauler

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#2458551 - 02/27/18 04:54 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
Von Offline
master

Registered: 10/15/03
Posts: 3698
Loc: NE Oklahoma
I ran Wal-Mart special in all of my dirt motors.. Never had an oil related issue. Buddy running same class always used the highest dollar crap he could find. No discernable difference in bearings/wear on teardown.

I've used BP, VR1, Diesel oil (old stock "better" oil, additives, etc w A lowly 440 and burn cups and pushrods every 700 miles or so. Pretty !@$!$!$@ frustrating

Fwiw, best oil I've used is a special formulation a local shop had a semilocal refinery brew for them. Shop went out of business and I only have 2 gallons left.
The shop was building alot of USMTS mod motors. Oil seemed/seems like good stuff.



Edited by Von (02/27/18 05:00 PM)
_________________________
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.

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#2458561 - 02/27/18 05:29 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Von]
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 13766
Loc: PA.
Most of us old time racers kinda have our minds made up especially if we do our own work and engine building. But if you see something you don’t like you better be open minded enough to switch brands. Off topic but for years I was a type F transmission fluid user then 15-18 years ago my transmission builder said to use Walmart type III. Well last year a had a bad transmission issue unrelated to the fluid type and I switched back to type F because of the smell the Walmart brand had. It smelled burnt to me right out of the bottle. I now have a sorse to get type F and do my own transmissions so that will be my fluid now.
_________________________
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
6.143@110.85 mph
9.73@135.05 mph shifting at 6700 RPM
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Untitled by John Cadamore, on Flickr





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#2458578 - 02/27/18 06:28 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
AndyF Offline
Too Many Posts

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 24957
Loc: Oregon
I've tried most of the race oils and these days I just use Mobil 1 that I get at Walmart for $4 a quart.

The engine shop I work with uses the Joe Gibbs break in oil on all engines but after break in I switch to 5w-30 Mobil 1.

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#2458580 - 02/27/18 06:31 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
DaveRS23 Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 4801
Loc: Benton, IL.
Due to the endorsements here, I would like to switch to the Driven HR 10-40. Any chance there will be a vendor at the Indy show this weekend?
_________________________
KOS

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#2458747 - 02/28/18 07:51 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: DaveRS23]
bigdad Offline
Still Posting A Lot

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 29997
Loc: S.E. South Dakota !
speedway will ship you driven by the case



www.SPEEDWAYMOTORS.COM

Part # 910038071

Tried posting the link but .. won't allow it for some odd reason

7.99 a quart



Edited by bigdad (02/28/18 07:53 AM)

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#2458777 - 02/28/18 09:08 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: bigdad]
DaveRS23 Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 4801
Loc: Benton, IL.
WOW! Looks like HR 10-40 is on sale now for $7.25 a qt. And says free shipping after $99.

I'm in. Thanks for the link.
_________________________
KOS

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#2458782 - 02/28/18 09:20 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
bigdad Offline
Still Posting A Lot

Registered: 02/12/04
Posts: 29997
Loc: S.E. South Dakota !
I buy a lot from them, 1 day service for me

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#2459216 - 02/28/18 10:33 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: fast68plymouth]
SomeCarGuy Offline
master

Registered: 02/02/03
Posts: 8496
Loc: Someplace you aren't
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
Plenty of other choices if you're not comfortable with the Penn Grade stuff.

Driven
Red Line
Royal Purple
Torco
Champion
Lucas

To name a few


IIRC in the past you’ve mentioned guys running lower viscosity than 10w40 have had trouble in tear downs you’ve seen. Appears several here have mentioned 5w30. Could this be an issue and changing brands after an issue crops up isn’t going to solve it?
_________________________
Forever in debt to your priceless advice...

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#2459449 - 03/01/18 01:12 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: SomeCarGuy]
Thumperdart Offline


Registered: 07/12/04
Posts: 18980
Loc: State of confusion
Originally Posted By SomeCarGuy
Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
Plenty of other choices if you're not comfortable with the Penn Grade stuff.

Driven
Red Line
Royal Purple
Torco
Champion
Lucas

To name a few


IIRC in the past you’ve mentioned guys running lower viscosity than 10w40 have had trouble in tear downs you’ve seen. Appears several here have mentioned 5w30. Could this be an issue and changing brands after an issue crops up isn’t going to solve it?


I've run some 5x30 Valvoline syn. or Mobile-1 syn. through my stuff a few times and no issues at tear downs but usually stick to a 10x30 w/.0025+ rod and .003+ mains street/strip mid 9 second car............... thumbs


Edited by Thumperdart (03/01/18 01:17 PM)
_________________________
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#2459531 - 03/01/18 03:45 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Thumperdart]
tboomer Offline



Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 22087
Loc: The frozen wasteland of Iowa
I find this interesting...For years people were all goo-goo eyed over Brad Penn oil...Now it isn't any good? Amazing..I have just enough for my spring oil change. Is the Wix racing oil filter junk now too? confused

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#2459537 - 03/01/18 03:53 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: tboomer]
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 13766
Loc: PA.
Originally Posted By tboomer
I find this interesting...For years people were all goo-goo eyed over Brad Penn oil...Now it isn't any good? Amazing..I have just enough for my spring oil change. Is the Wix racing oil filter junk now too? confused




If you are scared Ted please send it to me. I can get rid of those Wix filters for you too buddy.
_________________________
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
6.143@110.85 mph
9.73@135.05 mph shifting at 6700 RPM
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Untitled by John Cadamore, on Flickr





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#2459538 - 03/01/18 03:54 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: tboomer]
fourgearsavoy Offline


Registered: 12/07/04
Posts: 9330
Loc: Rittman Ohio
Originally Posted By tboomer
I find this interesting...For years people were all goo-goo eyed over Brad Penn oil...Now it isn't any good? Amazing..I have just enough for my spring oil change. Is the Wix racing oil filter junk now too? confused


From what I understand from reading on other sites out there on the web their under new ownership and the formula has been changed (cheaper maybe) shruggy

Have always been a Brad Penn user but last year I switched to VR-1 just because I got a case for a tip from one of my customers.

Gus beer
_________________________
64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60

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#2459540 - 03/01/18 03:59 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: pittsburghracer]
tboomer Offline



Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 22087
Loc: The frozen wasteland of Iowa
I can put it in the car and send it out to ya..... whistling

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#2459541 - 03/01/18 04:04 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: tboomer]
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 13766
Loc: PA.
Originally Posted By tboomer
I can put it in the car and send it out to ya..... whistling





Pour it into one of those USPS flat rate boxes. LOL
_________________________
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
6.143@110.85 mph
9.73@135.05 mph shifting at 6700 RPM
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Untitled by John Cadamore, on Flickr





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#2459542 - 03/01/18 04:06 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: pittsburghracer]
tboomer Offline



Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 22087
Loc: The frozen wasteland of Iowa
Originally Posted By pittsburghracer
Originally Posted By tboomer
I can put it in the car and send it out to ya..... whistling





Pour it into one of those USPS flat rate boxes. LOL


OK...Anything but UPS...United Package Smashers...

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#2459546 - 03/01/18 04:16 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: pittsburghracer]
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 13766
Loc: PA.
_________________________
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
6.143@110.85 mph
9.73@135.05 mph shifting at 6700 RPM
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Untitled by John Cadamore, on Flickr





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#2459564 - 03/01/18 05:04 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: pittsburghracer]
Hot 340 Offline
master

Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 3200
Loc: Pa
Well, everyone is saying it has changed. Nobody is saying exactly what. But I read it on the internet so it must be true. eyes

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#2459575 - 03/01/18 05:30 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Hot 340]
Sammy Offline
super stock

Registered: 12/31/12
Posts: 947
Loc: Wind Gap,Pa.
Originally Posted By Hot 340
Well, everyone is saying it has changed. Nobody is saying exactly what. But I read it on the internet so it must be true. eyes



3 reputable engine builders said they stopped using it for a reason.
I tend to believe 3 engine builders that sump most if not all the engines they build for customers.

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#2459698 - 03/01/18 09:35 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: 1964superstock]
davesmopars Offline
master

Registered: 08/01/04
Posts: 2951
Loc: cheshire, ct
Originally Posted By 1964superstock
Originally Posted By Chuck@Best_Machine
We stopped using BP years ago. A lot of the Engines that come in for freshen ups that run BP have worn rocker shafts and Piston Pins. We only use Driven Brand Oil, every Big Block we Dyno has BR50 in it. In a lot of our high HP Drag engine we use XP3 after dyno but in most cases the HR series oil is a good choice. We use the 15/50 in our bracket style engines.


Thanks for this info. What oil grade do you recommend for a street strip 505 440 stroker big block, using a solid flat tappet cam, 259/263 @ 050. My 505 engine dyno'd at 620 HP, fun street car. Would you still recommend 15w-50 Driven Engine Oil like bracket type engines, or use 10w-30 or 10w-40 instead? My 505 stroker had really high oil pressure last time I used Brad Penn 20w-50 oil, so I switched to straight 30W Brad Penn. Reading all this makes me a little leary of using BP oil any longer. Your recommendation is appreciated. Thanks.


I also was using 20/50 Brad Penn running similar motor 604 Hemi solid roller so also would like to hear recommendation. street / strip mostly street

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#2459849 - 03/02/18 08:29 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: davesmopars]
DaveRS23 Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 4801
Loc: Benton, IL.
Originally Posted By davesmopars
Originally Posted By 1964superstock
Originally Posted By Chuck@Best_Machine
We stopped using BP years ago. A lot of the Engines that come in for freshen ups that run BP have worn rocker shafts and Piston Pins. We only use Driven Brand Oil, every Big Block we Dyno has BR50 in it. In a lot of our high HP Drag engine we use XP3 after dyno but in most cases the HR series oil is a good choice. We use the 15/50 in our bracket style engines.


Thanks for this info. What oil grade do you recommend for a street strip 505 440 stroker big block, using a solid flat tappet cam, 259/263 @ 050. My 505 engine dyno'd at 620 HP, fun street car. Would you still recommend 15w-50 Driven Engine Oil like bracket type engines, or use 10w-30 or 10w-40 instead? My 505 stroker had really high oil pressure last time I used Brad Penn 20w-50 oil, so I switched to straight 30W Brad Penn. Reading all this makes me a little leary of using BP oil any longer. Your recommendation is appreciated. Thanks.


I also was using 20/50 Brad Penn running similar motor 604 Hemi solid roller so also would like to hear recommendation. street / strip mostly street


I am also "all ears".
_________________________
KOS

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#2459854 - 03/02/18 08:54 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
justinp61 Offline
master

Registered: 10/01/03
Posts: 9764
Loc: W. Kentucky
I need oil for my 434 so I e-mailed Driven and asked for a recommendation. For my street/strip application they recommended HR5 10w-40 conventional. I ordered two cases from Speedway.

The tech that replied was Lake Speed Jr., son of former nascar driver Lake Speed who I watched run a bunch of races years ago.

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#2459855 - 03/02/18 08:59 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
Chuck@Best_Machine Offline


Registered: 01/21/03
Posts: 961
Loc: Farmington Hills, Mich
Its impossible for me to recommend one oil that would work for everybody. When we do our engines everything is in our control from bearings, bearing clearance, lifter choice, oil pump, pushrod oiling etc.

But I would suggest for a street / strip car it would be safe to start with the Driven HR 15W-50 Conventional oil, if you have excessive pressure ( 80 + ) with 190 deg oil temp then you might want to try a 10W-40

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#2459898 - 03/02/18 10:37 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Chuck@Best_Machine]
Eric Offline


Registered: 07/10/10
Posts: 2387
Loc: Pittsburgh PA
Originally Posted By Chuck@Best_Machine
Its impossible for me to recommend one oil that would work for everybody. When we do our engines everything is in our control from bearings, bearing clearance, lifter choice, oil pump, pushrod oiling etc.

But I would suggest for a street / strip car it would be safe to start with the Driven HR 15W-50 Conventional oil, if you have excessive pressure ( 80 + ) with 190 deg oil temp then you might want to try a 10W-40



Chuck ...any experience with the Schaeffers?
_________________________
5.53 @ 125 1/8th on the launch control..more left in her!


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#2459963 - 03/02/18 01:16 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
racerhog Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 363
Loc: Monrovia, So-Cal, USA
Wow... IF I could make one recommendation to all y'all that really need help.

USE WHAT YOUR ENGINE BUILDER TELLS YOU TO USE !!!! PERIOD !!!!!
Most folks dont know jack about oils....
_________________________
Bob(Cowboy)Hogan
Monrovia So-Cal

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#2460044 - 03/02/18 04:07 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: racerhog]
Von Offline
master

Registered: 10/15/03
Posts: 3698
Loc: NE Oklahoma
Originally Posted By racerhog


USE WHAT YOUR ENGINE BUILDER TELLS YOU TO USE !!!! PERIOD !!!!!
Most folks dont know jack about oils....


Some engine builders don't know jack about oils....

Not directed towards anybody on here, but just sayin...
_________________________
72 RR, Pump gas 440, 452s, 3800 lbs, Corked, ET Radials,. 11.33@117.72. Same car, bone stock 346s, 9.5 comp, baby solid. 12.24@110.

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#2460133 - 03/02/18 05:55 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Von]
BradH Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 14251
Loc: Valhalla... eventually
Originally Posted By Von
Originally Posted By racerhog


USE WHAT YOUR ENGINE BUILDER TELLS YOU TO USE !!!! PERIOD !!!!!
Most folks dont know jack about oils....


Some engine builders don't know jack about oils....

Not directed towards anybody on here, but just sayin...

Some engine builders don't know jack about building engines, either. But that would be another thread all its own.

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#2460137 - 03/02/18 06:02 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: BradH]
Thumperdart Offline


Registered: 07/12/04
Posts: 18980
Loc: State of confusion
Originally Posted By BradH
Originally Posted By Von
Originally Posted By racerhog


USE WHAT YOUR ENGINE BUILDER TELLS YOU TO USE !!!! PERIOD !!!!!
Most folks dont know jack about oils....


Some engine builders don't know jack about oils....

Not directed towards anybody on here, but just sayin...

Some engine builders don't know jack about building engines, either. But that would be another thread all its own.


laugh2 stirthepot penguin
_________________________
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....

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#2463325 - 03/08/18 05:56 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
Sammy Offline
super stock

Registered: 12/31/12
Posts: 947
Loc: Wind Gap,Pa.
So which DRIVEN Race Oil would be good for a race only engine shifting at 7600 small block? Going through the traps at 7770 rpm's

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#2463461 - 03/08/18 09:28 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
max_maniac Offline
master

Registered: 01/20/03
Posts: 6158
Loc: Aurora, Oh.
We are using the HR 15/50 in a 572 Wedge and a Hemi. The wedge is shifting at 7100 and going through the traps at 7200. Looking to shift a little higher this year.
_________________________


63 Dodge Max Wedge NSS
64 Dodge now with a Hemi
64 Dodge wagon coming soon!

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#2463616 - 03/09/18 08:09 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
Tommy D Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 10/02/08
Posts: 398
Loc: Harleysville, PA USA
Six pages in and not one account of a failure...just rumors. Is this "lube shaming" LOL

We've run Penn Grade (old Brad Penn) for years since losing three separate engines to cam failure. The failures sent debris through the engines and required total rebuilds in all cases. This with flat tappet cams. Since switching to Brad Penn, no failures.

Does anyone have a personal experience with a true, oil-related failure due to Penn Grade? I just bought another case of 10W30, and have no plans to change until proven it's not going to work.


Attachments
Lobe failure.JPG

Magnetic Plug with debris.JPG



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#2463653 - 03/09/18 09:15 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Tommy D]
Sammy Offline
super stock

Registered: 12/31/12
Posts: 947
Loc: Wind Gap,Pa.
Originally Posted By Tommy D
Six pages in and not one account of a failure...just rumors. Is this "lube shaming" LOL

We've run Penn Grade (old Brad Penn) for years since losing three separate engines to cam failure. The failures sent debris through the engines and required total rebuilds in all cases. This with flat tappet cams. Since switching to Brad Penn, no failures.

Does anyone have a personal experience with a true, oil-related failure due to Penn Grade? I just bought another case of 10W30, and have no plans to change until proven it's not going to work.



You must have missed this reply from Chuck@Best Machine who I trust, same with Todd@ Competition Wedge. Please read.

We stopped using BP years ago. A lot of the Engines that come in for freshen ups that run BP have worn rocker shafts and Piston Pins. We only use Driven Brand Oil, every Big Block we Dyno has BR50 in it. In a lot of our high HP Drag engine we use XP3 after dyno but in most cases the HR series oil is a good choice. We use the 15/50 in our bracket style engines.

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#2463672 - 03/09/18 09:42 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
Mattax Offline
pro stock

Registered: 02/28/10
Posts: 1201
Loc: Phila. Pa.
Viscosities could play a role too.
Last time I was checking viscosities of 40 and 50 wt oils, BP had higher viscosity than others I was looking at in the same grades. That could cause flow issues. Just one of many factors of course, but IMO an important one.

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#2463678 - 03/09/18 09:57 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Mattax]
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 13766
Loc: PA.
I wonder if these same engines seeing wear have vacuum pumps sucking the oil away from piston pins and oil restriction issues to the rockers causing issues. Spray bar oiling??? I run the hell out of my crap and I'm not seeing it on my engines with Brad Penn 10-30. I'm not saying its not happening because those guys see a heck of a lot more engines than I see. Maybe i'm just lucky.
_________________________
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
6.143@110.85 mph
9.73@135.05 mph shifting at 6700 RPM
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Untitled by John Cadamore, on Flickr





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#2463693 - 03/09/18 10:23 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
BradH Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 14251
Loc: Valhalla... eventually
Originally Posted By Sammy
So which DRIVEN Race Oil would be good for a race only engine shifting at 7600 small block? Going through the traps at 7770 rpm's

My suggestion is to go to the Driven Racing Oil web site and download their product brochures and tech articles. If you read the details of each of their race oils, you'll often see guidance such as using a Xw30 for bearing clearances up to .0027"; Xw40 for up to .0030", etc. They have enough info across their available downloads that it should give you a pretty good sense of what will work for you.

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#2463698 - 03/09/18 10:27 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
A/MP Offline
super stock

Registered: 10/09/08
Posts: 770
Loc: East Coast
Spent some time trying to find out what is in XP3. Closest explanation is "proprietary". That doesn't say much. Not knocking it but that "word" is way over used.Just as an example, Castrol does not own oil refineries, oil wells, etc. and does nothing more than blend numerous products from numerous vendors to make numerous blends of oils.Unless you are trying to extract every bit of HP from your combo, 20W50 is the best weight for racing. It is very forgiving, filling voids better than 0W10. Other than high end 500 + miles road race cars, 20W50 keeps all those motors alive in conditions that a drag motor will never see.

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#2463705 - 03/09/18 10:36 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: BradH]
Hot 340 Offline
master

Registered: 12/01/06
Posts: 3200
Loc: Pa
So, who in this thread sells Gibbs oil. Asking for a friend.

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#2463708 - 03/09/18 10:42 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Hot 340]
pittsburghracer Offline
"Little"John

Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 13766
Loc: PA.
Originally Posted By Hot 340
So, who in this thread sells Gibbs oil. Asking for a friend.



Check to see if Summit or Amazon carry it just to get at least a ballpark price. I think Greg that manages Keystone is going to be selling Shaffer’s if you want to check that out
_________________________
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
6.143@110.85 mph
9.73@135.05 mph shifting at 6700 RPM
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27

Untitled by John Cadamore, on Flickr





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#2463725 - 03/09/18 11:12 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: A/MP]
BradH Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 14251
Loc: Valhalla... eventually
Originally Posted By A/MP
... Castrol does not own oil refineries, oil wells, etc. and does nothing more than blend numerous products from numerous vendors to make numerous blends of oils.

That is extremely common among the "boutique" oil companies, which includes most specialty racing oil companies. They do their own R&D w/ the variety of available base stocks & additives and come up with a blend they can call their own.

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#2463753 - 03/09/18 11:41 AM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: A/MP]
BradH Offline
I Live Here

Registered: 01/30/03
Posts: 14251
Loc: Valhalla... eventually
Originally Posted By A/MP
... Unless you are trying to extract every bit of HP from your combo, 20W50 is the best weight for racing.

popcorn

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#2463836 - 03/09/18 01:34 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
DoubleD Offline
top fuel

Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 1922
Loc: NE Ohio
The history of Joe Gibbs oil (now known as Driven) was Joe Gibbs Racing and several other teams were having issues with the Nascar "sponsor" oil eating cams during break in on the dyno - hence one of his engine builders had the break in oil made to their specifications – As I have been told they had to run the sponsor oil during racing - I would suspect a lot of oil bottles got emptied and filled with their own mix after the break in was done.

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#2463901 - 03/09/18 03:48 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: DoubleD]
RoadRunnerLuva Offline
master

Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 3011
Loc: Michigan
I use Gibbs Driven XP-7 synthetic blend high zinc 10w40 in my Duster. That's what the guy I bought it from, said to use, since that's what the original engine shop who built it, said to use. He also said when the engine was built (5 years ago), the engine shop initially used the BR Driven break-in oil on start-up as well.
_________________________
"Get busy living or get busy dying"....

1972 Plymouth Duster...418ci Stroker Small Block
1973 Dodge Charger SE Brougham...400 Magnum Big Block (SOLD)
1971 Plymouth Duster...360 4bbl (SOLD)
1970 Dodge Challenger...340 4bbl (SOLD)
1969 Dodge Dart...440 Big Block (SOLD) Burn't up in a fire
1969 Chrysler 300 Convertible...440 Big Block (SOLD)
1968 Dodge Dart Custom...318 4bbl (SOLD) Smashed/wrecked
1998 Dodge Dakota R/T 5.9 Magnum
2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0

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#2464000 - 03/09/18 06:05 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Tommy D]
crabman173 Offline
master

Registered: 01/01/06
Posts: 3852
Loc: Big Lick , North Carolina
Originally Posted By Tommy D
Six pages in and not one account of a failure...just rumors. Is this "lube shaming" LOL

We've run Penn Grade (old Brad Penn) for years since losing three separate engines to cam failure. The failures sent debris through the engines and required total rebuilds in all cases. This with flat tappet cams. Since switching to Brad Penn, no failures.

Does anyone have a personal experience with a true, oil-related failure due to Penn Grade? I just bought another case of 10W30, and have no plans to change until proven it's not going to work.

That looks like a billet cam maybe even roller???
_________________________
I have always had a fascination with fast cars at the expense of more normal character development

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#2464087 - 03/09/18 08:29 PM Re: Getting mixed feelings on Penn Grade Oil [Re: Sammy]
A/MP Offline
super stock

Registered: 10/09/08
Posts: 770
Loc: East Coast
I always enjoy the stampede mentality. I took some time today to get the information that no one wanted to acquire. SO FOR THOSE THAT HAVE NO REAL KNOWLEDGE....Brad Penn was recently purchased by D A Lubricant in Lebanon IN.THERE HAS BEEN NO CHANGE IN THE FORMULA OF BRAD PENN 1 RACING OIL. Their standard Brad Penn oils, that are daily use blends, have changed to meet today's automotive manufacturers and EPA standards. The mineral oil base of most oils and those of Brad Penn 1 have the ability of keeping additives, that are found in motors oils, in solution and do not settle out because of temp, pressure or aeration. In order for modern motor oils to keep additives in solution, with respect to performance, must have an ester base and that ester base is expensive. So if some one orders the Brad Penn instead of the Brad Penn 1 for their performance engine then that's on you. You should really read the literature that Dave Reher Racing compiled and read his well thought out dissertation of racing oil and their effects. If you want to get rid of Brad Penn 1 oil, then PM me and I'll take it off your hands.No oil related engine failures in over 30 years from 8500 rpm 273,318 stock eliminator, 360 and 440 bracket motors and 396 destroked A/MP motor.

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