Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
#2409956
11/28/17 02:01 AM
11/28/17 02:01 AM
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Posts: 1,521 Tacoma, Washington USA
Adam71Charger
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I just bought a 2001 SLT 2WD 5.9 Durango for cheap cheap because it is experiencing tranny issues and CTM electrical problems that the PO didnt want to deal with.
I know this issue Im having is very common on these 46re Durangos/Rams/Dakotas, so I could use some guidance in solving it, thank you in advance!
My particular problem is the tranny only goes into 3rd when put in D. I believe it's called limp mode. You can manually shift down to 2nd, but no matter what you do it will not go into 1st or 4th, period. If you put it into drive, it goes straight to 3rd and stays there, no downshift to 2nd when you floor it. You can manually put the lever down into 2nd, and it will go into 2nd, and 2nd is where it will stay no matter what. You can put it back into D and it goes to 3rd. That is all you can do for forward gears. Reverse works fine.
I have read numerous posts about the governor/transducer, OD solenoid, output speed sensor, corroded connections, bad grounds, and frayed/shorted wires etc etc. I just dont know where to begin.
This Durango is very nice, smooth running 360, good interior, and I bought it for next to nothing so I dont mind putting some $ into the trans to make it trouble-free and reliable. Is there a standard combination of new solenoids/connectors/relays/harnesses/wires that can be put in all at once to eliminate all the common problems at once?
Here are the codes I pulled today:
P0753 A/T 3-4 Solenoid/Transmission Relay Circuit Failure
P0743 A/T Torque Converter Clutch Solenoid Circuit Failure
P0720 A/T Output Speed Sensor - Low output Above 15 MPH
P1764 A/T Governor Pressure Sensor Signal Too Low
P1765 A/T Transmission Relay Circuit Malfunction
Where should I start?
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2410012
11/28/17 08:45 AM
11/28/17 08:45 AM
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ruderunner
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A good close look at the wiring harness would be a start. I'd toss in a known good tcm relay too.
Do you have a scanner that can read data or just codes?
Angry white pureblood male
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: calrobb2000]
#2410188
11/28/17 04:56 PM
11/28/17 04:56 PM
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cudaman1969
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hi
1 erase codes and drive !
2 if codes reapear pull pan and look at fluid condition
adjust bands new filter see how much dirt is on magnet ?
may need solinoid kit replaced if trany is fairly clean
lots of dirt means most likely needs rebuilt ! Good advice. I'm buying a Ram Van (2001) today with same issue. Owner said scan showed solenoid problems. Trans fluid smells burnt and is black so I'm going to drop the pan, adjust bands and change fluid-filter, got my fingers crossed this works.
Last edited by cudaman1969; 11/28/17 04:56 PM.
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2410273
11/28/17 08:02 PM
11/28/17 08:02 PM
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A727Tflite
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Circuit failures are just that - electrical faults. They may cause a trans failure but not the other way around. There is a main harness on the outside on RE and a harness inside that handles governor pressure, OD and lockup. On the RH there is almost the same internal harness for OD and lockup but the governor is like the old 727, no governor solenoid or transducer. Dropping the pan and seeing burnt fluid and expecting to resurrect the unit by adjusting the bands and changing the fluid and filter is expecting a lot. You may get lucky - for a short while.
Last edited by Transman; 11/28/17 08:04 PM.
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2410400
11/28/17 11:23 PM
11/28/17 11:23 PM
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Grizzly
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*Edit* IGNORE THIS FOR THE TIME BEING^^^^^^^^^^^^^^We'll overhaul it when it's ready to be overhauled. Adam, find anything with a wire connected to the trans and unplug, blow out with a can of electrical cleaner and plug 'em all back in again. Unhook the battery for an hour and connect it back up and go for a drive. What's the speedo needle doing? Is it bouncing/taking awhile to register, or is it normal? Start with the easy stuff first, I wanna know what that output speed sensor code is doing on there.............
Last edited by Grizzly; 11/28/17 11:26 PM.
Mo' Farts
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2410431
11/28/17 11:58 PM
11/28/17 11:58 PM
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A727Tflite
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RWD RE units default to third gear. 41TE and 42LE default to second gear.
Last edited by Transman; 11/29/17 06:15 AM.
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2410968
11/29/17 09:48 PM
11/29/17 09:48 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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I_bleed_MOPAR
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Or you can do like I did on my '00 Durango 5.9 and convert it to a 5 spd. Tim
'71 Charger 383/727 '17 Challenger SXT (Wifeys car )
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: I_bleed_MOPAR]
#2410987
11/29/17 10:24 PM
11/29/17 10:24 PM
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Joined: Aug 2005
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Grizzly
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Or you can do like I did on my '00 Durango 5.9 and convert it to a 5 spd. Tim Definitely a better way to go than to rebuild that POS Dodge automatic. One day, (it'll take a Brain Surgeon) I hope someone will figure a way to run a 545rfe behind a Magnum. By the way, what did you use for a flywheel on the 5.9 to do the swap?
Mo' Farts
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: roadrunninMark]
#2411405
11/30/17 06:47 PM
11/30/17 06:47 PM
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360view
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You can run the NAG1 too, contact Sound German Automotive for the stand alone controller. This is news to me. Could the Sound German Automotive stand alone controller also be used on an earlier OBD-I 1995 vehicle like to replace a 46RH with a WA580 auto trans? https://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/NAG1-WA580.htmlReplacing a 46RH with 3.21 ratio diff With a WA580 with 2.76 diff certainly seems to be an upgrade Since torque capacity is 420+ ft-lbs First gear crawl speed would also be superior.
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: Grizzly]
#2411416
11/30/17 07:03 PM
11/30/17 07:03 PM
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I_bleed_MOPAR
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Definitely a better way to go than to rebuild that POS Dodge automatic.
One day, (it'll take a Brain Surgeon) I hope someone will figure a way to run a 545rfe behind a Magnum.
By the way, what did you use for a flywheel on the 5.9 to do the swap?
RockAuto- '01 1500 5.9 flywheel, HD clutch assy. that was optional for 1500 and '01 Dakota V6 donor truck, new Dakota clutch hydraulics. Tim
'71 Charger 383/727 '17 Challenger SXT (Wifeys car )
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: roadrunninMark]
#2411441
11/30/17 08:08 PM
11/30/17 08:08 PM
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cudaman1969
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360, Yes, you can use the NAG1 even behind a LA small block. Your old trans set up would not be used, Sound German would be able to tell you what you need better than I could. I just talked to them before about putting behind my 71 318. I went with a 42RH instead as it was a lot cheaper at the time. The controller is a little pricey (about 1200) but if you get the trans cheap enough it may be worth it compared to a complete rebuild of a 46RH. Plus the gearing is a huge improvement. You are exactly right about the gearing. Send them an email and they will get the info you need. There is a whole LOT more to it than just a controller. Basicly a total rehab of the car to fit, then the problem of the output flange, speed censers, converter options, the list goes on and on. There are better options out there.
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2412059
12/02/17 01:26 AM
12/02/17 01:26 AM
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Grizzly
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That sucks Adam, but all it cost you is your time. Always do the free stuff first. I'm surprised that check engine light came on so quick, did you even put it in gear or try to drive it? Is there any change in the code list?
Last edited by Grizzly; 12/02/17 01:26 AM.
Mo' Farts
Moderated by "tbagger".
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2412146
12/02/17 09:32 AM
12/02/17 09:32 AM
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ruderunner
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The light coming on immediately indicate an electronic problem. What codes came back?
Angry white pureblood male
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2413849
12/05/17 09:58 PM
12/05/17 09:58 PM
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Adam71Charger
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It still kinda bothers me that my trans relay has 5 prongs but sits in a 4 terminal slot, so basically the middle prong doesnt connect to anything. Could this be the wrong relay? 20171130_132650 by Richard Bailey, on Flickr 20171130_132708 by Richard Bailey, on Flickr 20171130_132728 by Richard Bailey, on Flickr And here is a shot of the stamped code on the driver side. 20171130_134528 by Richard Bailey, on Flickr
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2413882
12/05/17 10:53 PM
12/05/17 10:53 PM
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Adam71Charger
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I think Im going to order the complete solenoid kit from cascade, that way when I drop the pan, if there's no mess, Ill install it, if there is a mess, I send it back and look at rebuild options. I know this is not the most graceful way to handle the problems, but these parts in the kit are the culprit in so many of the problems with the RE transmissions that Im willing to bet the kit solves my issues.
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2414016
12/06/17 01:49 AM
12/06/17 01:49 AM
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Grizzly
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Sounds like a plan, I've read into solonoid pack replacement but so far have not had to do it on my RE.
When you get it drained, take out the output speed sensor and clean the tip. If I remember right it's a small magnet and bits of metal will get to it. That may be why you are getting that code.
Don't take it out before you drain it........or you'll get a bath. Damhik.
Mo' Farts
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2435328
01/16/18 12:14 AM
01/16/18 12:14 AM
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Adam71Charger
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Ok I ordered the kit, it arrived, I unhooked the negative battery cable and dropped the pan. Fluid was clean and the magnet had barely any gunk on it.
I installed the 46RE Governor Pressure Service Kit 2000 Up from cascade.This included the governor (governor pressure transducer), the shift solenoid (governor pressure solenoid), the gasket for the housing of those 2 units, the 3-4 accumulator spring, the tail shaft speed sensor, the new filter and the new pan gasket. Filled it with atf+4.
I also bought a mid grade code reader.
I hooked up the battery and fired it up. Within 10 seconds or so, the check engine light came back on. I cussed and got in and took it for a ride. Again, when put in drive it starts out super slow and I figure this either means it’s starting out in third or something is wrong with the torque converter . But before I could only manually down shift to second and it would never going to first and also overdrive was not working.
This time again when put in drive it started out really slow just like before But this time I could manually shifted into every gear first second and third but I didn’t get it going fast enough to see if it went into Over Drive. When put in the first it kind of feels like it doesn’t catch until you give it a fair amount of throttle but nonetheless it went in the first and second and third manually.
First read of codes: P0743 TCC solenoid circuit, P0753 1-2/4-5 Solenoid circuit, P1764 governor pressure sensor low, P1765 1. Switched battery failure 2. Trans power relay circuit
I cleared the codes and turned it back on, again the check engine light came on in about 10 seconds and I took it for a drive. It seem to drive a little bit better.
Second read of codes: P0743 TCC solenoid circuit, P1764 governor pressure sensor low, P1765 1. Switched battery failure 2. Trans power relay circuit
With one of the codes disappeared, I switched out the trans relay with another relay and no change. I’m starting to think I have a short somewhere. I have heard of the downstream O2 sensor Circuit causing short problems as it runs in the same harness as the transmission wiring. Or maybe my TCC solenoid is shot and I should’ve bought the full kit that included that!!!
What do you guys think? What should my next movie?
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2435766
01/16/18 05:28 PM
01/16/18 05:28 PM
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Grizzly
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I think the next move is:
1. Manually shift it, drive for a bit, get some miles on that fluid, let your new filter catch what it can and do it's job. You say you have'nt been in 4th yet: make an excuse to go for a road trip. Your tc locks in 4th (and will in 3rd if you press the "overdrive off" button) and needs to get run in top gear for some miles. Give us an update.
2. Change the tcc solonoid-I really think this is the problem now. I think that's why it's dragging it's ass when you take off: t/c not unlocking, solonoid burnt.
3. New torque convertor.
4. There's a transmission in Portland with 132,000 miles for $830.00.
Mo' Farts
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2435783
01/16/18 05:49 PM
01/16/18 05:49 PM
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A727Tflite
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Like I stated earlier - you have circuit failure codes, fluid and temperature has nothing to do with these codes. Look the harness over real good for chaffing or damage. From the controller down to the trans. Carefully pull the connectors loose and clean and inspect for corrosion, both the female and male ends. Switched battery failure stands out like a sore thumb. It's dragging because you are in default third gear. If you can pull it in to low and it accelerates like it normally would that confirms default/third gear start. Converter has nothing to do with your problems at this point. And yes the O2 circuit can wreak havoc on trans controls due to the sharing of the harness at the splice.
Last edited by Transman; 01/16/18 05:51 PM.
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: A727Tflite]
#2435917
01/16/18 09:30 PM
01/16/18 09:30 PM
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Adam71Charger
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Look the harness over real good for chaffing or damage. From the controller down to the trans. ... And yes the O2 circuit can wreak havoc on trans controls due to the sharing of the harness at the splice.
Where/what is the ‘controller’? Is it a bad o2 sensor or bad o2 sensor circuit that causes the problems?
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2435995
01/16/18 11:22 PM
01/16/18 11:22 PM
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Grizzly
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But it is obvious someone has cut the pink wire out of the middle connector of the PCM and At the relay box and jumped it. I don’t know if that has anything to do with the transmission but I’ll find out as I trace these wires Yeah. You failed to mention this. Get this issue looked after first.
Mo' Farts
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2436088
01/17/18 01:21 AM
01/17/18 01:21 AM
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A727Tflite
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These may help. My memory is worse than I thought - the power up pin is not the center pin. First thing to do is make sure you have power in to the trans and a good ground. If power is low something is dragging it down - or a bad ground ?
Last edited by Transman; 01/17/18 01:23 AM.
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2436731
01/18/18 07:02 AM
01/18/18 07:02 AM
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Grizzly
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Something that I didn’t even think to mention though because it did not show up on the codes and I thought it was just a fluke, Is that the ABS and brake warning lights on the dash are always on. Once in a while they won’t be on when I turn the engine on but 95% of the time they are on.
That's your rear wheel abs sensor at the top of the diff housing. Replace it......with a Mopar one, not aftermarket junk. Adam, you need to tell us everything, is there anything else or is this it? Get that pink wire fixed, do the abs sensor and go for a drive.
Mo' Farts
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2439432
01/23/18 08:56 AM
01/23/18 08:56 AM
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Adam71Charger
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Grizzly, trans man, I’ll re-outline my situation and not leave anything out this time. I bought a 2001 2WD 5.9 SLT for very cheap because it had transmission issues and CTM issue . The CTM and the transmission are separate issues.
The headlights the interior & dash lights flickered and unison about 10 to 12 minutes after the truck was started, the door locks stop working as well and the alarm would go off randomly when I would open the driver door. I did a lot of troubleshooting and researching, and my problem Turned out to be a very very common problem, all those circuits run through the ‘central timing module’ CTM (or ‘body control module’ BCM As Subaru calls it apparently). I pulled mine out of the drivers side kick panel, looked up the part number on eBay, and bought a used one for $100. Installed the new CTM and problem solved.
When you get in the Durango and turn it on, the check engine light as well as the ABS light and the brake light on the dash Illuminate immediately. From a full stop the Durango, in D, starts out gutless and weak and feels like it’s starting out in 3rd gear. It stays in 3rd and wont shift or kick down into 2nd or 1st, and doesn’t go into Overdrive either. The ‘OD Off’ button and light function normally but the button doesn’t change anything. You can move the shift lever into 2 and It feels like the transmission manually shifts into 2nd because you get a lot more power instantly. Moving the shift lever into 1 doesn’t do anything, it wouldn’t go into 1st gear ever. So basically when put into D, it went straight into what feels like 3rd Gear, and it stays there never downshifting or going into overdrive.
It threw out a variety of transmission codes as you can see from looking through my post and they weren’t always the same and sometimes changed when the battery cable was removed or when I manually erase the codes with my code reader. There were about six total codes that it would cycle through, like it could make up its mind which problems it had. . The codes were P1765 P1764 P0720 P0743 P0753 And once a random eve app purge canister code P0441.
I switched the trans relay to a known good one with no change. I bought a new battery because the original was too old anyways, no change. I noticed that the center connector on the PCM Had a pink wire that had been cut and jumped with a single wire that went across the engine bay and over to the relay/fuse box where the pink wire there had been cut and the wire attached to the jumper. I have no idea what that is for yet.
I peeled back the sheathing and tape on every wire connector on the trans and everywhere else in that area including the O2 sensors and I peeled them back as far up the side of the transmission as I could squeeze my hands. There were no Frayed or broken wires that I could find. The circular connector on the trans had snapped some plastic on the connector on the transom had. But there were no missing or bent prongs I could feel.
I ordered The governor pressure service kit for 2000 and up from Cascade transmission parts and bought plenty of new Castrol ATF+4 .I Disconnected the battery, then dropped the pan and the fluid was in great condition and there was barely any grime in the pan or on the magnet. I installed the new parts and gaskets and filled it back up with new tranny fluid and reconnected the battery. Within 10 seconds of starting the truck the check engine light came back on. Again the codes come back and sometimes if deleted it changes which codes it wants to give me but still draws from the same six codes. Actually there are two that remain on every time and those are P1765 and P0743. There was no change in drivability except now I can manually shift between all three gears .
So now I’m on the hunt for broken or shorted wires and trying to trace the wires from the transmission connector back up to the relay‘s and PCM. I am also placing my PCM as suspect Due to the pink wire being hacked, and the ABS and brake warning light that are always on which I have read are Signs of a PCM replacement that wasn’t flashed properly with the vin. I have also ordered a new TCC/OD solenoid group with harness for 2000 and up from Cascade. That may fix or help but even if it doesn’t I didn’t mind purchasing it because the Durango so cheap to begin with and it gives me a little peace of mind knowing that once I Install these parts it will pretty much rule out those components as the culprits.
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2452923
02/17/18 03:27 AM
02/17/18 03:27 AM
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Alright, I got the new plastic piece that the neutral safety switch rides on. Luckily I was able to install it without having to drop the valve body again! FYI, the piece is called the Neutral Safety Backup Insulator, SONNAX part # 2222907K. I was able to quickly (and gently) drill out the rivet holding in the remaining broken insulator and po it off. I cleaned the metal arm very well, scratched it up with some sandpaper, cleaned again with brakleen, dried it and then used a little 2 part plastic epoxy on the new insulator and popped it onto the metal arm. This was a little tricky due to the angle, but it worked. The plastic insulator is shaped so that it clips down onto the arm, and the epoxy was just extra protection. I let it cure overnight, way way longer than directed. It worked perfectly. I cleaned the pan spotless and this time I just used right stuff RTV with no gasket, torqued to 6 ftlbs, then to 12 ftlbs. No leaks whatsoever.
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2452928
02/17/18 03:35 AM
02/17/18 03:35 AM
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So, with every electrical component inside the trans plus the output shaft speed sensor ALL BRAND NEW, I hooked the battery back up and started the durango.
Within seconds the check engine light was back on and all the same codes still there.
So, I will now begin my hunt for shorted wires/faulty components/loose connections outside the trasmission.
I'll start by unplugging components that could be suspect, like the O2 sensors, and then I'll trace my wires using the diagrams, and also check my pcm. The pink wire that was cut at the pcm and relay box and jumped to one another is really bothering me, I need to know what that wire goes to and why someone wouldve cut it, and bypassed the harness with a jumper.
I am starting to think it is possible this PCM is the original and was going bad so measures were taken to bypass something, or this is a replacement PCM that was not the right part number therefore not for my Durango and it is causing problems, or possibly it is the correct replacement, just faulty itself. IDK, just some possibilities that crossed my mind
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Re: Having the common tranny issues with 46re, need guidance
[Re: Adam71Charger]
#2452943
02/17/18 04:42 AM
02/17/18 04:42 AM
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,999 Salem
Grizzly
Moparts Proctologist
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Moparts Proctologist
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,999
Salem
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See my post above Adam, put the pink wire back to the way it is supposed to be and replace the rear-wheel abs sensor.
Using this aftermarket junk is just making the problem worse. Try to source your parts from an autowrecker if you are looking to save a buck. Myself and others on this site have had numerous issues with aftermarket electrical components.
It's not the same as the old 12 volt days. This new stuff is in milivolts and the aftermarket stuff is too far out of spec to meet the factory requirments.
Mo' Farts
Moderated by "tbagger".
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