Re: 511 project hp falls short of target
[Re: mopar dave]
#2396021
10/31/17 01:14 PM
10/31/17 01:14 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 610 long time lurker, short time p...
PorkyPig
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 610
long time lurker, short time p...
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I believe they were total seal 1/16 moly rings. If the cam has enough overlap 93 shouldn't be a problem for cruising. Dom does it. I have been thru ever circuit in this Dominator. Every circuit I drilled and set screws added with a precision hole that I drilled. Been tuning on this Dominator for awhile with Doms help. I think its there or very close. I will try more timing because I think that what it probably wants. Overlap doesn't have anything to do with cylinder pressure. The intake valve closing point determines that. I believe Dom lives in at a higher altitude where octane is less important, too.
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Re: 511 project hp falls short of target
[Re: Dragula]
#2396025
10/31/17 01:21 PM
10/31/17 01:21 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 610 long time lurker, short time p...
PorkyPig
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 610
long time lurker, short time p...
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On the dyno, where did you have your timing at? And refresh my memory, what compression and what cam?
I can tell you, my 512's like timing on pump gas...AND, depending on whether its E10 or Ethanol free, my jetting can be as much as +4 jet sizes different.
You have to tune for this, its not somthing you buy a carb and get it right out of the box..Same with timing, you have to try it to know. How much timing are you talking about? What type of heads and compression ratio?
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Re: 511 project hp falls short of target
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2396026
10/31/17 01:23 PM
10/31/17 01:23 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
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From the sounds of it, and by the title of this post....... You've already made up your mind that combo isn't what you want. Might as well just start buying the new parts now........ You'll have all winter to change it over.
And why not.........it's "REAL WORLD" not dyno proven, hauls the mail, has gentle lobes and will spit out a 6.0 here very soon. This is no different than everyone offering their opinions but I guess mine mean very little which is funny as hell as I test more than most and run respectably......... Who want's to sit in a dyno all day or days and test when SOME of us already know what the results will be to a point I know I don't and never have other than some chassis stuff which is closer to reality than a dyno cell but whatever works I guess........You will fly Dave and the street manners will blow all "theory" outta the water I promise you..........
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: 511 project hp falls short of target
[Re: mopar dave]
#2396123
10/31/17 04:01 PM
10/31/17 04:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,385 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,385
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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I bet it runs faster at the track w/ 36 or more.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: 511 project hp falls short of target
[Re: mopar dave]
#2396172
10/31/17 05:23 PM
10/31/17 05:23 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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I think it just needs a little tweeking to get there. Its got cubic inches and great heads. It might surprise me at the track as is, but the only suprises i ever get at the track is that your car isnt as fast as your thought it was. Ain't that the truth^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: 511 project hp falls short of target
[Re: BradH]
#2396325
10/31/17 10:21 PM
10/31/17 10:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,486 SoCal
Brian Hafliger
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,486
SoCal
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Read your post quickly and I'm just gonna rattle off what came to mind: 1. F**k those dyno software programs. I own four of them, ranging from cheapo to "Professional" level and NONE of them give results that match what I've found in the real world without my gaming the inputs significantly to tweak the results.
2. How much does your car weigh with driver?
3. Is it a stick car or an automatic? If auto, what type of converter?
4. How much gear do you run and with what size & type of tires?
5. What are you running for fuel? Have you tested different timing settings?
6. What's your performance goal? I don't mean "700 HP on pump gas", I mean an ET goal. If the car ran 9.99, would it be legal at the track vs. only going 10.00?
7. "Seat of the pants" testing on the street is next to worthless. Too many variables, too little traction, etc. I've done things in the past that I'd swear would show up as improvements on the track that didn't, but my "butt dyno" told me it would.
8. Until you either pull the engine and put it on a reputable engine dyno OR spend a solid day at track working on the tune, so that you can get some real-world #s, you have no idea beyond an educated guess what that engine's making. Ha ha ha ha...'atta boy Brad!
Brian Hafliger
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Re: 511 project hp falls short of target
[Re: mopar dave]
#2396406
11/01/17 12:54 AM
11/01/17 12:54 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,725 Portage,michigan
B3422W5
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 11,725
Portage,michigan
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If you have so much fun at the track why are you giving it up?
69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight 418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam Best so far, low 10.30’s 1/4 1.41 best 60 foot 6.56 at 104.17
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Re: 511 project hp falls short of target
[Re: Brian Hafliger]
#2396546
11/01/17 10:35 AM
11/01/17 10:35 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Read your post quickly and I'm just gonna rattle off what came to mind: 1. F**k those dyno software programs. I own four of them, ranging from cheapo to "Professional" level and NONE of them give results that match what I've found in the real world without my gaming the inputs significantly to tweak the results.
2. How much does your car weigh with driver?
3. Is it a stick car or an automatic? If auto, what type of converter?
4. How much gear do you run and with what size & type of tires?
5. What are you running for fuel? Have you tested different timing settings?
6. What's your performance goal? I don't mean "700 HP on pump gas", I mean an ET goal. If the car ran 9.99, would it be legal at the track vs. only going 10.00?
7. "Seat of the pants" testing on the street is next to worthless. Too many variables, too little traction, etc. I've done things in the past that I'd swear would show up as improvements on the track that didn't, but my "butt dyno" told me it would.
8. Until you either pull the engine and put it on a reputable engine dyno OR spend a solid day at track working on the tune, so that you can get some real-world #s, you have no idea beyond an educated guess what that engine's making. Ha ha ha ha...'atta boy Brad! I was just tryin to keep it real, bro.
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Re: 511 project hp falls short of target
[Re: mopar dave]
#2396597
11/01/17 12:20 PM
11/01/17 12:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,385 Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,385
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Testing for streetability, sure. Testing for max power...nope.
CHIP '70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60 '69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60 '71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75 '73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75 '90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt '06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: 511 project hp falls short of target
[Re: mopar dave]
#2396605
11/01/17 12:31 PM
11/01/17 12:31 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 326 Alberta
Wookie316
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 326
Alberta
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The last 3 engines....... well the same engine with a different combo were engine dyno’d then stuck in the car. Everytime we have used the Moroso slide calculator the car ran almost the exact MPH the calculator told us, but the ET was off a couple tenths on each build suggesting I have some chassis issues or a combo that is slightly off. However at a Line weight of 4100 I am quite happy with a 10 teen ET. My last build peaked at 838 HP. Average HP was 776. The calculator says a perfect run is 9.95 at my weight which is 2/10 off where I am at. The car runs a consistent number and that makes me happy. I could mess with a few things but I’m close to that 10.0 range already and the one track I run at does not take kindly to sub 10 runs without the safety equipment. This winter will Be weight reduction if anything just to take stress off everything. Would like to get to 3900 if possible.
1971 Plum Crazy Super Bee. 572 World Aluminum block with a Cope 727 & Dana 4.10 out back. 9.88 @ 138 with a 1.35 60 NA. Dialed back to 10.0’s. 4000 lbs with me in it.
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Re: 511 project hp falls short of target
[Re: mopar dave]
#2396608
11/01/17 12:38 PM
11/01/17 12:38 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457 Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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Well, chassis dynos are a fun day as well, but every time I tune on a chassis dyno I have to retune the carb when I get to the track. Then you are doing something wrong. If you consider a jet change or air bleed a retune then that's different. It's not unusual to make minor tune up changes after dyno with a crank or a wheel dyno. The difference is you aren't guessing at what you have. Like someone mentioned above, I worked with a chassis dyno for years. When something came off they dyno I was usually within 1-2 MPH of what the car should do. MPH is HP and ET is hook. So if it runs the MPH for the dyno HP then the numbers are valid.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: 511 project hp falls short of target
[Re: an8sec70cuda]
#2396627
11/01/17 01:18 PM
11/01/17 01:18 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318 State of confusion
Thumperdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
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Testing for streetability, sure. Testing for max power...nope. I get BOTH but it takes time, patience and KNOWLEDGE but the end results are well worth it........I agree about hittin the track(forget the dyno)and seeing what ya got at that point then change what's necessary to meet your goal IF it doesn't already..........
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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