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Re: 511 project hp falls short of target [Re: mopar dave] #2396021
10/31/17 01:14 PM
10/31/17 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted By mopar dave
I believe they were total seal 1/16 moly rings. If the cam has enough overlap 93 shouldn't be a problem for cruising. Dom does it. I have been thru ever circuit in this Dominator. Every circuit I drilled and set screws added with a precision hole that I drilled. Been tuning on this Dominator for awhile with Doms help. I think its there or very close. I will try more timing because I think that what it probably wants.

Overlap doesn't have anything to do with cylinder pressure. The intake valve closing point determines that. I believe Dom lives in at a higher altitude where octane is less important, too.

Re: 511 project hp falls short of target [Re: Dragula] #2396025
10/31/17 01:21 PM
10/31/17 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted By Dragula
On the dyno, where did you have your timing at? And refresh my memory, what compression and what cam?

I can tell you, my 512's like timing on pump gas...AND, depending on whether its E10 or Ethanol free, my jetting can be as much as +4 jet sizes different.

You have to tune for this, its not somthing you buy a carb and get it right out of the box..Same with timing, you have to try it to know.

How much timing are you talking about? What type of heads and compression ratio?

Re: 511 project hp falls short of target [Re: fast68plymouth] #2396026
10/31/17 01:23 PM
10/31/17 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted By fast68plymouth
From the sounds of it, and by the title of this post....... You've already made up your mind that combo isn't what you want.
Might as well just start buying the new parts now........ You'll have all winter to change it over.



And why not.........it's "REAL WORLD" not dyno proven, hauls the mail, has gentle lobes and will spit out a 6.0 here very soon. This is no different than everyone offering their opinions but I guess mine mean very little which is funny as hell as I test more than most and run respectably......... whistling Who want's to sit in a dyno all day or days and test when SOME of us already know what the results will be to a point I know I don't and never have other than some chassis stuff which is closer to reality than a dyno cell but whatever works I guess........You will fly Dave and the street manners will blow all "theory" outta the water I promise you.......... beer apimp


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: 511 project hp falls short of target [Re: fast68plymouth] #2396118
10/31/17 03:53 PM
10/31/17 03:53 PM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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I think it just needs a little tweeking to get there. Its got cubic inches and great heads. It might surprise me at the track as is, but the only suprises i ever get at the track is that your car isnt as fast as your thought it was.

Re: 511 project hp falls short of target [Re: PorkyPig] #2396122
10/31/17 04:01 PM
10/31/17 04:01 PM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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Iv ran it from 31 to 36. Compression is 11.26 and heads are victor max wedge heads with 76cc cnc chambers.

Re: 511 project hp falls short of target [Re: mopar dave] #2396123
10/31/17 04:01 PM
10/31/17 04:01 PM
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
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I bet it runs faster at the track w/ 36 or more.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: 511 project hp falls short of target [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2396136
10/31/17 04:18 PM
10/31/17 04:18 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
I bet it runs faster at the track w/ 36 or more.
On pump gas, maybe not work OP, your butt dyno has probably now acclimated to the new motor work shruggy
Shredding the tires at will in second gear now makes it faster than the old motor twocents shruggy


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 511 project hp falls short of target [Re: mopar dave] #2396172
10/31/17 05:23 PM
10/31/17 05:23 PM
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Originally Posted By mopar dave
I think it just needs a little tweeking to get there. Its got cubic inches and great heads. It might surprise me at the track as is, but the only suprises i ever get at the track is that your car isnt as fast as your thought it was.



Ain't that the truth^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: 511 project hp falls short of target [Re: BradH] #2396325
10/31/17 10:21 PM
10/31/17 10:21 PM
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SoCal
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Originally Posted By BradH
Read your post quickly and I'm just gonna rattle off what came to mind:
1. F**k those dyno software programs. I own four of them, ranging from cheapo to "Professional" level and NONE of them give results that match what I've found in the real world without my gaming the inputs significantly to tweak the results.

2. How much does your car weigh with driver?

3. Is it a stick car or an automatic? If auto, what type of converter?

4. How much gear do you run and with what size & type of tires?

5. What are you running for fuel? Have you tested different timing settings?

6. What's your performance goal? I don't mean "700 HP on pump gas", I mean an ET goal. If the car ran 9.99, would it be legal at the track vs. only going 10.00?

7. "Seat of the pants" testing on the street is next to worthless. Too many variables, too little traction, etc. I've done things in the past that I'd swear would show up as improvements on the track that didn't, but my "butt dyno" told me it would.

8. Until you either pull the engine and put it on a reputable engine dyno OR spend a solid day at track working on the tune, so that you can get some real-world #s, you have no idea beyond an educated guess what that engine's making.


Ha ha ha ha...'atta boy Brad!


Brian Hafliger
Re: 511 project hp falls short of target [Re: Brian Hafliger] #2396397
11/01/17 12:40 AM
11/01/17 12:40 AM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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Car is good to 10.00, but I only need to run a 9.99 1 time. I'm just about done with this track stuff and will be selling my trailer soon. Car is an auto and I use hoosier QTP with a 4.30 gear which will be switched out next yr for my 4.10. Again, the track is the best dyno and the most fun.

Re: 511 project hp falls short of target [Re: mopar dave] #2396406
11/01/17 12:54 AM
11/01/17 12:54 AM
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Portage,michigan
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If you have so much fun at the track why are you giving it up?


69 Dart GTS A4 Silver All steel, flat factory hood, 3360race weight
418 BPE factory replacement headed stroker, 565 lift solid cam
Best so far, 10.40 @127 1/4
1.41 best 60 foot
6.60 at 103.90 1/8

Re: 511 project hp falls short of target [Re: mopar dave] #2396416
11/01/17 01:19 AM
11/01/17 01:19 AM
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W. Kentucky
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Why not schedule a day on a chassis dyno and tune it before you start changing parts?

Re: 511 project hp falls short of target [Re: Brian Hafliger] #2396546
11/01/17 10:35 AM
11/01/17 10:35 AM
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Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Originally Posted By ou812
Originally Posted By BradH
Read your post quickly and I'm just gonna rattle off what came to mind:
1. F**k those dyno software programs. I own four of them, ranging from cheapo to "Professional" level and NONE of them give results that match what I've found in the real world without my gaming the inputs significantly to tweak the results.

2. How much does your car weigh with driver?

3. Is it a stick car or an automatic? If auto, what type of converter?

4. How much gear do you run and with what size & type of tires?

5. What are you running for fuel? Have you tested different timing settings?

6. What's your performance goal? I don't mean "700 HP on pump gas", I mean an ET goal. If the car ran 9.99, would it be legal at the track vs. only going 10.00?

7. "Seat of the pants" testing on the street is next to worthless. Too many variables, too little traction, etc. I've done things in the past that I'd swear would show up as improvements on the track that didn't, but my "butt dyno" told me it would.

8. Until you either pull the engine and put it on a reputable engine dyno OR spend a solid day at track working on the tune, so that you can get some real-world #s, you have no idea beyond an educated guess what that engine's making.


Ha ha ha ha...'atta boy Brad!

I was just tryin to keep it real, bro. laugh2

Re: 511 project hp falls short of target [Re: B3422W5] #2396579
11/01/17 11:52 AM
11/01/17 11:52 AM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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$$$$$$

Re: 511 project hp falls short of target [Re: justinp61] #2396582
11/01/17 11:53 AM
11/01/17 11:53 AM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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Well, chassis dynos are a fun day as well, but every time I tune on a chassis dyno I have to retune the carb when I get to the track.

Re: 511 project hp falls short of target [Re: BradH] #2396584
11/01/17 11:57 AM
11/01/17 11:57 AM
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Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline OP
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I disagree. Testing on my streets with a wideband is definitely worth something. This dominator has some very good street manners now thanks to the wideband and the help of Dom.

Re: 511 project hp falls short of target [Re: mopar dave] #2396597
11/01/17 12:20 PM
11/01/17 12:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
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Testing for streetability, sure. Testing for max power...nope.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: 511 project hp falls short of target [Re: mopar dave] #2396605
11/01/17 12:31 PM
11/01/17 12:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 326
Alberta
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The last 3 engines....... well the same engine with a different combo were engine dyno’d then stuck in the car. Everytime we have used the Moroso slide calculator the car ran almost the exact MPH the calculator told us, but the ET was off a couple tenths on each build suggesting I have some chassis issues or a combo that is slightly off.
However at a Line weight of 4100 I am quite happy with a 10 teen ET.
My last build peaked at 838 HP. Average HP was 776.
The calculator says a perfect run is 9.95 at my weight which is 2/10 off where I am at.
The car runs a consistent number and that makes me happy. I could mess with a few things but I’m close to that 10.0 range already and the one track I run at does not take kindly to sub 10 runs without the safety equipment.
This winter will Be weight reduction if anything just to take stress off everything. Would like to get to 3900 if possible.


1971 Plum Crazy Super Bee. 572 World Aluminum block with a Cope 727 & Dana 4.10 out back. 9.88 @ 138 with a 1.35 60 NA. Dialed back to 10.0’s. 4000 lbs with me in it.
Re: 511 project hp falls short of target [Re: mopar dave] #2396608
11/01/17 12:38 PM
11/01/17 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted By mopar dave
Well, chassis dynos are a fun day as well, but every time I tune on a chassis dyno I have to retune the carb when I get to the track.


Then you are doing something wrong. If you consider a jet change or air bleed a retune then that's different.

It's not unusual to make minor tune up changes after dyno with a crank or a wheel dyno. The difference is you aren't guessing at what you have.

Like someone mentioned above, I worked with a chassis dyno for years. When something came off they dyno I was usually within 1-2 MPH of what the car should do.

MPH is HP and ET is hook. So if it runs the MPH for the dyno HP then the numbers are valid.


Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
Re: 511 project hp falls short of target [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2396627
11/01/17 01:18 PM
11/01/17 01:18 PM
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State of confusion
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Originally Posted By an8sec70cuda
Testing for streetability, sure. Testing for max power...nope.


I get BOTH but it takes time, patience and KNOWLEDGE but the end results are well worth it........I agree about hittin the track(forget the dyno)and seeing what ya got at that point then change what's necessary to meet your goal IF it doesn't already.......... beer


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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