So... I looked at the pic & the caption... and my very first thought was: WHY is he removing the guides on a new set of street replacement heads?
Were they junk right outta the box?
Is the person doing the work going to set them up for valves with thinner stems?
Is this person going to port them with or without new guides in the heads? If without, how can any progress checks be tested on a flow bench when the valves can't be installed?
Either I'm simply missing the rest of the story, or this porting job is starting off in a very unconventional manner.
Re: Small Block Sidewinder Heads FULL port work pics
[Re: Prochargedmopar]
#2344940 07/28/1706:11 PM07/28/1706:11 PM
So far, the quality looks very good. I do not have my head gaskets yet, so I can't move much farther except for checking my rocker arm alignment (tomorrow). It looks like stock type head bolts will work (except additional [2] 4.5" long bolts), but my spark plugs from my old iron J's do not work in these heads. So I will need to find out the type of plugs that are required. The heads have been hand-stamped with a number, so it appears that they file the info on each set of heads. The push rod holes are the same diameter as the stock heads. Comp springs/retainers and 10 degree locks.
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger 340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: Small Block Sidewinder Heads FULL port work pics
[Re: Prochargedmopar]
#2345374 07/29/1706:38 PM07/29/1706:38 PM
yea, dont you worry, Larry aint no dummy...he isnt some Johnny Come lately on heads.
RIP Monte Smith
Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.
WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
Re: Small Block Sidewinder Heads FULL port work pics
[Re: CompWedgeEngines]
#2345391 07/29/1707:15 PM07/29/1707:15 PM
LOL...I forgot we had a Johnny head guy!...lol...how you makin out?
I am gonna try to send you a PM this weekend if I get time.
RIP Monte Smith
Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.
WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
Re: Small Block Sidewinder Heads FULL port work pics
[Re: CompWedgeEngines]
#2345424 07/29/1708:48 PM07/29/1708:48 PM
LOL...I forgot we had a Johnny head guy!...lol...how you makin out?
I am gonna try to send you a PM this weekend if I get time.
Doing OK Todd but kinda took a step back from racing for a little break. Powerglide issues kicked my butt having to pull it in and out 6 times. LOL. I bought some "fishing worms" now I got to go use them.
When I was still doing port work, on twin cam Harley heads I would remove the guide to do my porting, was replacing them anyway, stock heads 2.12 valve & larger seats 328 cfm .650 for steet use.
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
Re: Small Block Sidewinder Heads FULL port work pics
[Re: CSK]
#2345444 07/29/1709:52 PM07/29/1709:52 PM
The Sidewinders start with the Promaxx castings. I have attached the flow chart. Todd has them ported to the customers needs. I am waiting on the flow numbers for my bowl ported version, and Prochargedmopar is having his fully ported soon.
The Sidewinders start with the Promaxx castings. I have attached the flow chart. Todd has them ported to the customers needs. I am waiting on the flow numbers for my bowl ported version, and Prochargedmopar is having his fully ported soon.
Thanks
Re: Small Block Sidewinder Heads FULL port work pics
[Re: Prochargedmopar]
#2345549 07/30/1702:09 AM07/30/1702:09 AM
I have 2 sets going right now, first set is for a true street driver, so that will only be a bowl blend and valve job, with 2, maybe 3 different valves tested, with different angles, mods, from different manufactures.As an example, I actually found in the past, a valve that " shouldnt have been" better, was actually better in a set of RHS heads. By all rights, it should have been the worst flowing piece, and wasnt. Bowl/valve job will be how the head is most going to be used by the typical customer. I'll post that info when done. I am pretty sure with minimal work they'll push close to 300, but until I do that myself, I will only make assumptions based on what I know from others.When and if I ever get the time, I'd like to blow a set out and see what happens. They are a fantastic value, but dont confuse them for a set of W8's. they fall into a category of great replacement head, with a lot more potential than stock.
Last edited by CompWedgeEngines; 07/30/1710:18 AM.
RIP Monte Smith
Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.
WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
Re: Small Block Sidewinder Heads FULL port work pics
[Re: CompWedgeEngines]
#2345652 07/30/1712:05 PM07/30/1712:05 PM
""So whatcha got as a review? Like what you see?""
I just finished mocking up my Yella Terra 1.65 rockers on these Sidewinders. So far, the alignment looks good. Now I need to check for push rod clearance when my gaskets get here.
Stock valve covers are being glued to the Superformance valve cover gaskets. No problems with fitment.
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger 340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: Small Block Sidewinder Heads FULL port work pics
[Re: Prochargedmopar]
#2346222 07/31/1702:56 PM07/31/1702:56 PM
I looked at Summit and found that a bare pair of smallblock promaxx heads for LA engines is $1100. $1400 will get you an assembled pair. $1525 will get you assembled and hand bowl blended.
No word in the catalog if they have been checked out or as assembled.
I don't need more flow than what they have stock, so no need for porting.
I hope the Sidewinders aren't as expensive.
R.
Last edited by dogdays; 08/03/1703:42 PM.
Re: Small Block Sidewinder Heads FULL port work pics
[Re: dogdays]
#2347977 08/03/1704:23 PM08/03/1704:23 PM
I looked at Summit and found that a bare pair of smallblock promaxx heads for LA engines is $1100. $1400 will get you an assembled pair. $1525 will get you assembled and hand bowl blended.
No word in the catalog if they have been checked out or as assembled.
I don't need more flow than what they have stock, so no need for porting.
Since PhotoBucket did their little "hissy fit" a lot of old posts are lost without pictures. I will tell to update this post when I get a chance with pictures loaded from another photo site.
My perspective is such that these heads will be perfect for my application. Street/Some strip use in a fairly heavy 3400# vehicle and some BOOST! Gonna make my short block whine line a little baby. hahahah
Compared to the best factory Cathedral port heads they do pretty good. I know I could have matched the chevy head flow #'s with some moderately ported EQ's for $1500 but then I'd still have Iron heads and no WOW factor being mine were ported by Larry Smith.
Here is some GM head data for reference.
Last edited by prochargedmopar; 08/15/1706:26 PM.
"Old" member Registered: Sep 2001 Lost my credentials, I'm Back!! LOL 71 Ply Satellite Procharged 73 Dodge Dart Swinger 73 Ford F-100 390/Sniper efi/back to carb 01 Town and Country Limited 08 Dodge 2500 6.7 5" Deleted 02 Mercedes C230K 19 Camry
Re: Small Block Sidewinder Heads FULL port work pics
[Re: Prochargedmopar]
#2354404 08/15/1706:56 PM08/15/1706:56 PM
Couple of questions... what intake will these use and what is the valve length on them.. I would like to pick up a set for .600-.650 lift.. most likely I will do my own port work.. also how does the push rod look in there.. can a 3/8 push rod be used
Re: Small Block Sidewinder Heads FULL port work pics
[Re: Prochargedmopar]
#2354434 08/15/1708:01 PM08/15/1708:01 PM
I suppose it's OK to compare your heads to old "modern" SBC heads, but the next generation LS3 is already outdated compared to the LS7 stuff that's been out for years, too. Or maybe I've missed the point of your comparison...
Re: Small Block Sidewinder Heads FULL port work pics
[Re: Prochargedmopar]
#2354441 08/15/1708:09 PM08/15/1708:09 PM
Hey The valves are 5.060 Long but you guys are confusing the heck out of me. I used a 924 comp spring and those are set up for a 525 lift hydraulic cam not 625. I used a Comp 10 degree retainer and lock as well. P body I would set them up with an Isky 8005A for most applications of a cam that size with a flat tappet solid. They setup at about 1.900 and you do not want to go making the spring pockets way bigger. Oh and yes the heads of photo fame will be shipping in the AM. Todd
Hey The valves are 5.060 Long but you guys are confusing the heck out of me. I used a 924 comp spring and those are set up for a 525 lift hydraulic cam not 625. I used a Comp 10 degree retainer and lock as well. P body I would set them up with an Isky 8005A for most applications of a cam that size with a flat tappet solid. They setup at about 1.900 and you do not want to go making the spring pockets way bigger. Oh and yes the heads of photo fame will be shipping in the AM. Todd
Thanks for that info
Re: Small Block Sidewinder Heads FULL port work pics
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2354686 08/16/1708:46 AM08/16/1708:46 AM
I suppose it's OK to compare your heads to old "modern" SBC heads, but the next generation LS3 is already outdated compared to the LS7 stuff that's been out for years, too. Or maybe I've missed the point of your comparison...
My thoughts are this. With bone stock factory LS heads I see guys making 750whp using the 78/75 turbo I recently purchased. I see a few making 1000hp with the 80mm+ turbos (big frame).
So, If I can get some MOPAR heads that equal the potential of those and maintain about the same 3400# by offsetting the power adder weight with Aluminum heads I will be happy.
I've got the $$ to run down to the junkyard and pick up a 5.3 but every time I get the urge something inside will not allow me to do it.. Paying 3-5x the price for the same power (heads and trans + machine work) doesn't make me the sharpest tool in the shed but it does keep my mopar a mopar.
"Old" member Registered: Sep 2001 Lost my credentials, I'm Back!! LOL 71 Ply Satellite Procharged 73 Dodge Dart Swinger 73 Ford F-100 390/Sniper efi/back to carb 01 Town and Country Limited 08 Dodge 2500 6.7 5" Deleted 02 Mercedes C230K 19 Camry
Re: Small Block Sidewinder Heads FULL port work pics
[Re: YO7_A66]
#2354850 08/16/1701:58 PM08/16/1701:58 PM
ProCharged, How many inches are you building? 190CC of port volume seems small to support a stroker.
Yo7, If his fully ported came in at 190, where were yours?
Final price, assembled, ready to bolt on?
After every passing year, I like my Airwolf 220s more and more...
30 over 360 (366cu)
I will be using a procharger that has 675hp potential. Then I will ADD the billet 78/75 turbo once I get the e85 carb dialed.
Yes, I said add. Compound power adder.
Yes I know it is redundancy. I like the sound of the blower but also like the top end potential and cool factor of the turbo along with being able to build some boost at stall.
Pretty sure I will have more power potential than your N/A Airwolfs.
Trouble is I think your the guy that was blowing up big blocks a decade or two ago with NOS so I would be looking at your rear end if we raced.
I plan to cruise mine around the country to some roadkill events. It looks pretty rough. lol
"Old" member Registered: Sep 2001 Lost my credentials, I'm Back!! LOL 71 Ply Satellite Procharged 73 Dodge Dart Swinger 73 Ford F-100 390/Sniper efi/back to carb 01 Town and Country Limited 08 Dodge 2500 6.7 5" Deleted 02 Mercedes C230K 19 Camry
Re: Small Block Sidewinder Heads FULL port work pics
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#2354914 08/16/1704:02 PM08/16/1704:02 PM
What I see is they flow 266.7 at .600 lift and thats where they peak
If you look at my chart on the ProMaxx head you will see where I marked "high air speed". A head becomes a little turbulent and stalls shortly after that and backs up in flow. Usually because the air can't make the short turn. It skips across the bowl shutting off the good airflow across the top of the port. you can hear it happening at that point. If a head doesn't flow 200 plus cfm and .300 it isn't leaving my porting bench.
Couple of questions... what intake will these use and what is the valve length on them.. I would like to pick up a set for .600-.650 lift.. most likely I will do my own port work.. also how does the push rod look in there.. can a 3/8 push rod be used
Stock equipment will work.
I have 2 available. A SP holley street dominator OR Edelbrock LD4B
I'll check fitment of the latter and if things are too far out of wack Larry said he would port it for $300 I'll have to think about that though as I may be able to get a better designed intake for that price new. Still up in the air on this till I get the heads in hand.
Last edited by prochargedmopar; 08/16/1705:09 PM.
"Old" member Registered: Sep 2001 Lost my credentials, I'm Back!! LOL 71 Ply Satellite Procharged 73 Dodge Dart Swinger 73 Ford F-100 390/Sniper efi/back to carb 01 Town and Country Limited 08 Dodge 2500 6.7 5" Deleted 02 Mercedes C230K 19 Camry
Re: Small Block Sidewinder Heads FULL port work pics
[Re: Prochargedmopar]
#2354970 08/16/1705:30 PM08/16/1705:30 PM
What I see is they flow 266.7 at .600 lift and thats where they peak
If you look at my chart on the ProMaxx head you will see where I marked "high air speed". A head becomes a little turbulent and stalls shortly after that and backs up in flow. Usually because the air can't make the short turn. It skips across the bowl shutting off the good airflow across the top of the port. you can hear it happening at that point. If a head doesn't flow 200 plus cfm and .300 it isn't leaving my porting bench.
That is one Baaaaaad looking machine you have in your signature pic!!! Swing open your garage door for any unsuspecting Mopar nut and they'll crap their britches. LOL
"Old" member Registered: Sep 2001 Lost my credentials, I'm Back!! LOL 71 Ply Satellite Procharged 73 Dodge Dart Swinger 73 Ford F-100 390/Sniper efi/back to carb 01 Town and Country Limited 08 Dodge 2500 6.7 5" Deleted 02 Mercedes C230K 19 Camry
Re: Small Block Sidewinder Heads FULL port work pics
[Re: Prochargedmopar]
#2356577 08/19/1702:27 PM08/19/1702:27 PM
What I see is they flow 266.7 at .600 lift and thats where they peak
If you look at my chart on the ProMaxx head you will see where I marked "high air speed". A head becomes a little turbulent and stalls shortly after that and backs up in flow. Usually because the air can't make the short turn. It skips across the bowl shutting off the good airflow across the top of the port. you can hear it happening at that point. If a head doesn't flow 200 plus cfm and .300 it isn't leaving my porting bench.
That is one Baaaaaad looking machine you have in your signature pic!!! Swing open your garage door for any unsuspecting Mopar nut and they'll crap their britches. LOL
Thank you Sir. Maybe one of these day I will get it finished. I have to finish the valve job on one B1 head and throw them on my o get a pushrod measurement so I can get a them ordered. Ran some 9.60's in my black duster last night so it's race ready.
I finally inspected my new heads after having them for a couple weeks and like what I see. I seem rather pessimistic at times but I just didn't know what to expect after dropping a couple $K. The valve guides feel PERFECT.
There are only two things that concern me. For my application they are most likely of little importance.
#1 There is a very minor machinist ridge around the valve openings in the chambers. They actually look worse than they are. The transition out of the ports and into the chambers are smooth as a baby's bottom.
#2 Casting flash where the oil drains back into to the crankcase. Being my engine will not be high rpm OR used on a road course then this too is of little consequence.
All in all I'm very satisfied with the work that has been done especially if the flow #'s specified are legit.
Intro:
Intake overview:
Exhaust overview:
Last edited by prochargedmopar; 09/10/1702:37 AM.
"Old" member Registered: Sep 2001 Lost my credentials, I'm Back!! LOL 71 Ply Satellite Procharged 73 Dodge Dart Swinger 73 Ford F-100 390/Sniper efi/back to carb 01 Town and Country Limited 08 Dodge 2500 6.7 5" Deleted 02 Mercedes C230K 19 Camry
Re: Small Block Sidewinder Heads FULL port work pics
[Re: Prochargedmopar]
#2368621 09/11/1701:24 AM09/11/1701:24 AM
""They look great to me for the price paid. $350 ain't bad.""
This is a comparison with the above numbers on the Promaxx chart. (Never mind the highlighted numbers.) I only showed the new intake "+" cfm flow for reference. I am "assuming" that the 280cfm is for the .600" lift. If the 280cfm is for the .550" lift, then the .550" would be "+" 18. Mine were ported up to .550", so this may be the .550" reading.
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger 340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: Small Block Sidewinder Heads FULL port work pics
[Re: YO7_A66]
#2372142 09/17/1712:13 PM09/17/1712:13 PM
Ramm, Because I honestly do not know, can you explain what the affect on the same engine would be when comparing the .100" cfm numbers as cast (69.5) versus the ported number of 91.5? Note: I have swapped from 2.02" J heads to these ported SW's and I assume the flow of the J's are a bit lower at the .100" lift.
I am wanting to understand your "cammy" response because I am now driving around on these heads (with same cam/rocker setup [listed in sig]) and I am noticing some differences.
Thanks!
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger 340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: Small Block Sidewinder Heads FULL port work pics
[Re: RAMM]
#2372549 09/18/1704:01 AM09/18/1704:01 AM
91.5 @ .100" LOL. That will flow even more backwards during the overlap period. Get ready to have one "cammy" engine. J.Rob
Yeah, couple of the #'s are off I'm sure. Fat fingered maybe.
@400 lift mine says 216 which I would assume to be 246 as his flow 243 at that level. I would not think a head goes from 206 to 216 to 282 to 300.... That 2nd # has to be off a bit.
Maybe he hit 9 instead of 6.
So are your heads running like expected? Ive decided before bolting mine on I will do the tedious job of sand rolling the machinist ridge out and deburing the oil drainback hole casting flash.
Other than that everything looks good to me.
"Old" member Registered: Sep 2001 Lost my credentials, I'm Back!! LOL 71 Ply Satellite Procharged 73 Dodge Dart Swinger 73 Ford F-100 390/Sniper efi/back to carb 01 Town and Country Limited 08 Dodge 2500 6.7 5" Deleted 02 Mercedes C230K 19 Camry
Re: Small Block Sidewinder Heads FULL port work pics
[Re: Prochargedmopar]
#2372567 09/18/1708:42 AM09/18/1708:42 AM
Mine went on easier than expected. My Yella Terra rockers aligned up real nice, my 5/16" pushrods showed no signs of hitting even with the 1.65 rockers. My alternator bolted up with minimal alignment issues. I was very happy with the install. My A/F gauges were showing lean on the first few drives but I have tuned those issues. I have hit WOT from idle a few times and my brand new Nitto's are getting a work out. I have not hit WOT thru the gears yet, I am still enjoying having the car back on the road from having it set all Spring and Summer. The more I drive it the more abuse I give it. I hope to tune the WOT shift points this week or next as I ease into it after the new heads got installed.
UPDATE: The flow numbers posted above by Procharged/Flow Tech 2 are my flow numbers. Todd just contacted me letting me know that Larry posted my numbers last week. Thank you Todd!
Last edited by YO7_A66; 09/18/1709:01 AM.
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger 340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
Re: Small Block Sidewinder Heads FULL port work pics
[Re: Prochargedmopar]
#2372743 09/18/1702:39 PM09/18/1702:39 PM
Yeah, couple of the #'s are off I'm sure. Fat fingered maybe.
@400 lift mine says 216 which I would assume to be 246 as his flow 243 at that level. I would not think a head goes from 206 to 216 to 282 to 300.... That 2nd # has to be off a bit.
Maybe he hit 9 instead of 6.
IIRC, when someone posted some BB Sidewinder flow #s from the same porter, I was one of the folks who commented the low-lift #s didn't look right there, either.
I don't think it's a "fat finger" situation as much as a flow bench calibration or setup issue. Without knowing anything else, all I can state is those .100" #s aren't realistic, which makes me wonder what else might be flawed with the rest of the test results.
Re: Small Block Sidewinder Heads FULL port work pics
[Re: Prochargedmopar]
#2373048 09/19/1712:00 AM09/19/1712:00 AM
I've had two flow benches over a period of 25 years and have done thousands of flow tests.
I dont recall ever testing any head, from any supplier, regardless of who ported it or what valve size it was, that flowed 90+@.100 lift(much less the claimed 120@.100 from the 2.14 valve from the BB test).
Once I see that, I just "check out". I know that number is wrong, so the rest of the numbers are suspect to me at that point.
A typical 2.02/45deg valve with a back cut is going to flow around 64-68cfm @.100 lift.
Try going on YB to the cyl head thread and see what kind of response you get to a 2.02 valve with a 45deg seat going 90cfm@.100. Same goes for Speed Talk.
I realize this post will just come across as me being "sour grapes"....... but......oh well. It's not a critique of Larrys porting......more like an observation about questionable test results.
I've got a SB sidewinder head in the shop now, and I found it did the same thing at .500 lift on my bench as John did. The flow separates from the floor(turbulence).
I got slightly lower numbers than John did, but it's a different head and likely a different brand of valve.
I just checked my notes for the last year and a half. The best numbers @.100 I've seen in that time were: -83.0 for a Ford FE HP head with a 2.19 valve and a 30deg seat -80.7 for an Edelbrock Victor Hemi head with a 2.32 45 deg valve
SB Mopar sidewinder, recut the seat, mild bowl blend, back cut valve: -65.5@.100 lift OOTB valve job, no back cut, no blending: -62.5@.100 lift
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads