Small Block Sidewinder Heads FULL port work pics

I'm thinking these will be shipped to me when done.
WoooooHooooo!

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1120574778075029&id=503146179817895

Keep us updated!!

My bowl blended/port matched set of SB Sidewinders just arrived at my UPS store this morning. I will pick them up after work today.

So... I looked at the pic & the caption... and my very first thought was: WHY is he removing the guides on a new set of street replacement heads?

Were they junk right outta the box?

Is the person doing the work going to set them up for valves with thinner stems?

Is this person going to port them with or without new guides in the heads? If without, how can any progress checks be tested on a flow bench when the valves can't be installed?

Either I'm simply missing the rest of the story, or this porting job is starting off in a very unconventional manner.

It's how you get access to the bowl behind the guide.

Or you can use the appropriately-shaped carbide burr w/ a 4-6" extended shank like 99% of the rest of the people porting heads by hand do.

I guess that's the poor mans "pro port" head.

Maybe he is going to put it on a cnc machine before he hand finishes the porting??

Yeah,
I would think he knows a thing or two about cylinder heads.

Larry Smith

So whatcha got as a review?
Like what you see?

So far, the quality looks very good. I do not have my head gaskets yet, so I can't move much farther except for checking my rocker arm alignment (tomorrow). It looks like stock type head bolts will work (except additional [2] 4.5" long bolts), but my spark plugs from my old iron J's do not work in these heads. So I will need to find out the type of plugs that are required.
The heads have been hand-stamped with a number, so it appears that they file the info on each set of heads. The push rod holes are the same diameter as the stock heads. Comp springs/retainers and 10 degree locks.

yea, dont you worry, Larry aint no dummy...he isnt some Johnny Come lately on heads.

Here's Johnny. Larry does some very nice work and you should be pleased. Goodluck on your builds

LOL...I forgot we had a Johnny head guy!...lol...how you makin out?

I am gonna try to send you a PM this weekend if I get time.

Doing OK Todd but kinda took a step back from racing for a little break. Powerglide issues kicked my butt having to pull it in and out 6 times. LOL. I bought some "fishing worms" now I got to go use them.

When I was still doing port work, on twin cam Harley heads I would remove the guide to do my porting, was replacing them anyway, stock heads 2.12 valve & larger seats 328 cfm .650 for steet use.

Does anyone know what these SB heads flow...
both ported and stock... also does anyone know
what the valve length is.. thanks

The Sidewinders start with the Promaxx castings. I have attached the flow chart.
Todd has them ported to the customers needs. I am waiting on the flow numbers for my bowl ported version, and Prochargedmopar is having his fully ported soon.

Thanks

Given the reasonable $ on used NASCAR 7mm Ti valves, I've been putting new guides (and sometimes seats) in a lot of heads.

Now I just need to find a guy with one of those Newen single point valve machines to adopt me, lol. S/F....Ken M

I have 2 sets going right now, first set is for a true street driver, so that will only be a bowl blend and valve job, with 2, maybe 3 different valves tested, with different angles, mods, from different manufactures.As an example, I actually found in the past, a valve that " shouldnt have been" better, was actually better in a set of RHS heads. By all rights, it should have been the worst flowing piece, and wasnt. Bowl/valve job will be how the head is most going to be used by the typical customer. I'll post that info when done. I am pretty sure with minimal work they'll push close to 300, but until I do that myself, I will only make assumptions based on what I know from others.When and if I ever get the time, I'd like to blow a set out and see what happens.
They are a fantastic value, but dont confuse them for a set of W8's. they fall into a category of great replacement head, with a lot more potential than stock.

That's what I've been told.

""So whatcha got as a review?
Like what you see?""

I just finished mocking up my Yella Terra 1.65 rockers on these Sidewinders. So far, the alignment looks good. Now I need to check for push rod clearance when my gaskets get here.

Stock valve covers are being glued to the Superformance valve cover gaskets. No problems with fitment.

More progress for those following along.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1122194524579721&id=503146179817895

or

https://www.facebook.com/groups/548658795265916/permalink/1086903408108116/

Yes procharged those are yours. Pretty neat following along...Might start doing this with motors.....Todd

Yes,
That is a cool idea.
As close as we can get to being in the shop without dialing up a skype call.
lol

More work being done.
I'm most curious about the chamber work, if any, that will be done.
Time will tell.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1122753034523870&id=503146179817895

Not all of us have fuxbook, can you post pics directly.

I can't see the Flow chart

""I can't see the Flow chart""

This is a partial of the Promaxx casting.

I looked at Summit and found that a bare pair of smallblock promaxx heads for LA engines is $1100. $1400 will get you an assembled pair. $1525 will get you assembled and hand bowl blended.

No word in the catalog if they have been checked out or as assembled.

I don't need more flow than what they have stock, so no need for porting.

I hope the Sidewinders aren't as expensive.

R.

hand bowl blended and assembled with hydraulic springs for $1300 ($100 off) at jeg's.
http://www.jegs.com/i/ProMaxx-Performance/723/9360/10002/-1

i think these heads should be the ones on the flow sheet posted earlier and the same that Pittsburghracer posted the thread about a while back.

Since PhotoBucket did their little "hissy fit" a lot of old posts are lost without pictures. I will tell to update this post when I get a chance with pictures loaded from another photo site.

https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/ubbt...ad-testing.html

Sidewinders from mopartsracing.com

$895 with valves
$1249 complete with comp cams springs/retainers/valve job/assembled/etc.

More progress:

Said the heads may be done Moday.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1127847617347745&id=503146179817895

Final product,
Waiting on a call from Todd for payment link and to see when they will ship.

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1130739693725204&id=503146179817895

More

My perspective is such that these heads will be perfect for my application.
Street/Some strip use in a fairly heavy 3400# vehicle and some BOOST!
Gonna make my short block whine line a little baby. hahahah

Compared to the best factory Cathedral port heads they do pretty good.
I know I could have matched the chevy head flow #'s with some moderately ported EQ's
for $1500 but then I'd still have Iron heads and no WOW factor being mine were ported by Larry Smith.

Here is some GM head data for reference.

Couple of questions... what intake will these
use and what is the valve length on them.. I
would like to pick up a set for .600-.650
lift.. most likely I will do my own port work..
also how does the push rod look in there.. can
a 3/8 push rod be used

Guess he likes to make 'em shiny, eh?

I suppose it's OK to compare your heads to old "modern" SBC heads, but the next generation LS3 is already outdated compared to the LS7 stuff that's been out for years, too. Or maybe I've missed the point of your comparison...

They look real nice.

Mr. P,
They have 1/2"' push rod holes if that helps at all.

Thanks on that part.. do you know the valve length
for a .600-.650 valve for that head.. thanks for the
help

Todd set me up with a valve/spring setup for apx .625", but I do not have it with me right now. I will get back with you on the valve length tomorrow.

Thanks much

Hey
The valves are 5.060 Long but you guys are confusing the heck out of me. I used a 924 comp spring and those are set up for a 525 lift hydraulic cam not 625. I used a Comp 10 degree retainer and lock as well. P body I would set them up with an Isky 8005A for most applications of a cam that size with a flat tappet solid. They setup at about 1.900 and you do not want to go making the spring pockets way bigger. Oh and yes the heads of photo fame will be shipping in the AM.
Todd

Thanks for that info

""I used a 924 comp spring and those are set up for a 525 lift hydraulic cam not 625.""

Oops, I fat fingered my response from my Ipad. Thanks Todd!

Ok I feel better now. I thought I messed something up.
Todd

ProCharged,
How many inches are you building? 190CC of port volume seems small to support a stroker.

Yo7,
If his fully ported came in at 190, where were yours?


Final price, assembled, ready to bolt on?

After every passing year, I like my Airwolf 220s more and more...

Looking at the low lift flow numbers, was there a back cut angle on the intake valve?

""Yo7,
If his fully ported came in at 190, where were yours?""

I do not have the flow numbers on my heads,,, yet. I am patiently waiting for the numbers.

My thoughts are this.
With bone stock factory LS heads I see guys making 750whp using the 78/75 turbo I recently purchased.
I see a few making 1000hp with the 80mm+ turbos (big frame).

So,
If I can get some MOPAR heads that equal the potential of those and maintain about the same 3400# by offsetting the power adder weight with Aluminum heads I will be
happy.

I've got the $$ to run down to the junkyard and pick up a 5.3 but every time I get the urge something inside will not allow me to do it..
Paying 3-5x the price for the same power (heads and trans + machine work) doesn't make me the sharpest tool in the shed but it does keep my mopar a mopar.

What I see is they flow 266.7 at .600 lift
and thats where they peak

30 over 360 (366cu)

I will be using a procharger that has 675hp potential.
Then I will ADD the billet 78/75 turbo once I get the e85 carb dialed.

Yes, I said add. Compound power adder.

Yes I know it is redundancy.
I like the sound of the blower but also like the top end potential and cool factor of the turbo along with being able to build some boost at stall.

Pretty sure I will have more power potential than your N/A Airwolfs.

Trouble is I think your the guy that was blowing up big blocks a decade or two ago with NOS so I would be looking at your rear end if we raced.

I plan to cruise mine around the country to some roadkill events.
It looks pretty rough. lol

If you look at my chart on the ProMaxx head you will see where I marked "high air speed". A head becomes a little turbulent and stalls shortly after that and backs up in flow. Usually because the air can't make the short turn. It skips across the bowl shutting off the good airflow across the top of the port. you can hear it happening at that point. If a head doesn't flow 200 plus cfm and .300 it isn't leaving my porting bench.

-----Edelbrock--------------ProMaxx
--------Intake-----------------intake
.200-----128--------------------129
.300-----182--------------------184
.400-----215--------------------235
.450-----226--------------------251
.500-----233--------------------255-260 high air-speed
.550-----236--------------------260
.600-----242--------------------264
.650-----243--------------------270
.700-----243--------------------263-270
.750----------------------------263-270

Stock equipment will work.

I have 2 available.
A SP holley street dominator
OR
Edelbrock LD4B

I'll check fitment of the latter and if things are too far out of wack Larry said he would
port it for $300
I'll have to think about that though as I may be able to get a better
designed intake for that price new.
Still up in the air on this till I get the heads in hand.

Man of many talents it appears.
Larry is moving on..... lol

Not enough mopar guys to make a living. hahaha

That is one Baaaaaad looking machine you have in your signature pic!!!
Swing open your garage door for any unsuspecting Mopar nut and they'll crap their britches. LOL

Thank you Sir. Maybe one of these day I will get it finished. I have to finish the valve job on one B1 head and throw them on my o get a pushrod measurement so I can get a them ordered. Ran some 9.60's in my black duster last night so it's race ready.

I finally inspected my new heads after having them for a couple weeks and like what I see.
I seem rather pessimistic at times but I just didn't know what to expect after dropping a couple $K.
The valve guides feel PERFECT.

There are only two things that concern me.
For my application they are most likely of little importance.

#1
There is a very minor machinist ridge around the valve openings in the chambers.
They actually look worse than they are.
The transition out of the ports and into the chambers are smooth as a baby's bottom.

#2
Casting flash where the oil drains back into to the crankcase.
Being my engine will not be high rpm OR used on a road course then this too is of little consequence.

All in all I'm very satisfied with the work that has been done especially if the flow #'s specified are legit.

Intro:


Intake overview:


Exhaust overview:

A little boring but here is the original un-boxing vid
I made about 5 days after I received the Sidewinders.

Isn't this the level you got?

Yes it is and thanks for posting the numbers! This is the first time I have seen the actual numbers. 👍

They look great to me for the price paid. $350 ain't bad.

It looks like +14'ish on the intake and +11'ish on exhaust over the Promaxx castings. I am good with those numbers!

""They look great to me for the price paid. $350 ain't bad.""

This is a comparison with the above numbers on the Promaxx chart. (Never mind the highlighted numbers.) I only showed the new intake "+" cfm flow for reference. I am "assuming" that the 280cfm is for the .600" lift. If the 280cfm is for the .550" lift, then the .550" would be "+" 18. Mine were ported up to .550", so this may be the .550" reading.

91.5 @ .100" LOL. That will flow even more backwards during the overlap period. Get ready to have one "cammy" engine. J.Rob

Ramm,
Because I honestly do not know, can you explain what the affect on the same engine would be when comparing the .100" cfm numbers as cast (69.5) versus the ported number of 91.5?
Note: I have swapped from 2.02" J heads to these ported SW's and I assume the flow of the J's are a bit lower at the .100" lift.

I am wanting to understand your "cammy" response because I am now driving around on these heads (with same cam/rocker setup [listed in sig]) and I am noticing some differences.

Thanks!

Yeah, couple of the #'s are off I'm sure.
Fat fingered maybe.

@400 lift mine says 216 which I would assume to be 246 as his flow 243 at that level.
I would not think a head goes from 206 to 216 to 282 to 300....
That 2nd # has to be off a bit.

Maybe he hit 9 instead of 6.

So are your heads running like expected?
Ive decided before bolting mine on I will do the tedious job of sand rolling the machinist ridge out and deburing the oil drainback hole casting flash.

Other than that everything looks good to me.

""So are your heads running like expected?""

Mine went on easier than expected. My Yella Terra rockers aligned up real nice, my 5/16" pushrods showed no signs of hitting even with the 1.65 rockers. My alternator bolted up with minimal alignment issues. I was very happy with the install.
My A/F gauges were showing lean on the first few drives but I have tuned those issues. I have hit WOT from idle a few times and my brand new Nitto's are getting a work out. I have not hit WOT thru the gears yet, I am still enjoying having the car back on the road from having it set all Spring and Summer. The more I drive it the more abuse I give it. I hope to tune the WOT shift points this week or next as I ease into it after the new heads got installed.

UPDATE: The flow numbers posted above by Procharged/Flow Tech 2 are my flow numbers. Todd just contacted me letting me know that Larry posted my numbers last week. Thank you Todd!

IIRC, when someone posted some BB Sidewinder flow #s from the same porter, I was one of the folks who commented the low-lift #s didn't look right there, either.

I don't think it's a "fat finger" situation as much as a flow bench calibration or setup issue. Without knowing anything else, all I can state is those .100" #s aren't realistic, which makes me wonder what else might be flawed with the rest of the test results.

I've had two flow benches over a period of 25 years and have done thousands of flow tests.

I dont recall ever testing any head, from any supplier, regardless of who ported it or what valve size it was, that flowed 90+@.100 lift(much less the claimed 120@.100 from the 2.14 valve from the BB test).

Once I see that, I just "check out".
I know that number is wrong, so the rest of the numbers are suspect to me at that point.

A typical 2.02/45deg valve with a back cut is going to flow around 64-68cfm @.100 lift.

Try going on YB to the cyl head thread and see what kind of response you get to a 2.02 valve with a 45deg seat going 90cfm@.100.
Same goes for Speed Talk.

I realize this post will just come across as me being "sour grapes"....... but......oh well.
It's not a critique of Larrys porting......more like an observation about questionable test results.

I've got a SB sidewinder head in the shop now, and I found it did the same thing at .500 lift on my bench as John did. The flow separates from the floor(turbulence).

I got slightly lower numbers than John did, but it's a different head and likely a different brand of valve.

I just checked my notes for the last year and a half.
The best numbers @.100 I've seen in that time were:
-83.0 for a Ford FE HP head with a 2.19 valve and a 30deg seat
-80.7 for an Edelbrock Victor Hemi head with a 2.32 45 deg valve

SB Mopar sidewinder, recut the seat, mild bowl blend, back cut valve:
-65.5@.100 lift
OOTB valve job, no back cut, no blending:
-62.5@.100 lift