Re: Strong B-block bottom end for max hp effort
[Re: polyspheric]
#2223996
12/31/16 01:25 PM
12/31/16 01:25 PM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,051 The Great White North
RAMM
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,051
The Great White North
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If the purpose of the girdle is to prevent the pan rail and caps from moving, mild steel of the same thickness is far better than any aluminum. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This is the way I see it as well. I had a slightly different take on it though and tried to incorporate the best of both aluminum (shock absorbing) and steel for(strength). As many have mentioned a light bob weight and a center counter weighted Bryant or Winberg crank will go a long way. Hardblock it halfway but start with a block that sonics well. I have found that the cylinder strength is a problem and have split cylinders at around the 800 hp range if you get into detonation. Not sure what cylinder head you are using but valve position sucks so bad in most of the inline valve OEM config'd offerings it wont be all that easy to make 900hp. If you could share the rules it would make helping easier. J.Rob
2009 PHR\EMC Competitor 2010 PHR\EMC Competitor 2011 PHR\EMC Competitor 2012 PHR\EMC Competitor 2013 PHR\EMC Competitor 2014 HotRod/EMC Competitor 2015 HotRod/EMC NoShow 2016 HotRod/EMC 3rd place SPEC Bigblock 2018 HotRod/EMC 7th place G3
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Re: Strong B-block bottom end for max hp effort
[Re: Lifsgrt]
#2224027
12/31/16 02:12 PM
12/31/16 02:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
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I like that set up. What did you do at the rear? My mods didn't involve a girdle, but used tool steel straps across all 5 main caps. I had seen caps crack apart, and figured the straps would hold it together if they failed. I had to make a reverse lip oil pan at the rear because of the studs/bolts. Held 1100hp (turbo). I agree with you on cylinder walls. Although mine never cracked, they were a bit barrel shaped(no block filler).
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: Strong B-block bottom end for max hp effort
[Re: AndyF]
#2224080
12/31/16 03:17 PM
12/31/16 03:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,395 The Pale Blue Dot
Skeptic
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,395
The Pale Blue Dot
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I made the dry sump pan myself. Any chance for a production run of those?
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Re: Strong B-block bottom end for max hp effort
[Re: Lifsgrt]
#2224129
12/31/16 05:04 PM
12/31/16 05:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890 North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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The hole is likely just weight, as it surely sacrifices nothing in that area for strength. My "race" blocks, I used to do the same thing as well as grinding off motor mount ears and anything else I could. Can save quite a few pounds but it's a lot of work. I have even seen blocks with that total corner cut off. How many bellhousing bolts do you really need? Where is the trans going? And how many guys have those holes stripped in their trans anyway? They don't do anything. Cut em off
Last edited by Monte_Smith; 12/31/16 05:06 PM.
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Re: Strong B-block bottom end for max hp effort
[Re: Lifsgrt]
#2224191
12/31/16 06:35 PM
12/31/16 06:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,496 So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,496
So. Burlington, Vt.
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Admittedly, I have no experience building a motor for a land speed application, but using really light weight internals isn't how I think I'd go about it.
The parts need to be durable enough for an extended period of time under heavy load. IMO, this is more similar to a marine application than a drag motor. The acceleration rate is very low, so heavier parts should have almost zero affect on the speed of the vehicle.
I understand the concerns about the mains, but if a rod or wrist pin fails because they arent HD enough, it's all over.
There is going to need to be a balance found between the strength needed for the application vs how light the parts can be.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123 Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
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Re: Strong B-block bottom end for max hp effort
[Re: Lifsgrt]
#2224347
12/31/16 10:31 PM
12/31/16 10:31 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 625 Oakville, Wa
HOTMOPR
mopar
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mopar
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 625
Oakville, Wa
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Ive been well over a 1000 for a couple years now. Its a 230 block partial fill. steel caps. 3/8" thick girdle, Studs everywhere the girdle. I have also had good results using 3m weatherstrip adhesive on the girdle to block rail. I apply it liberally install the girdle and then bolt it down for a few days to dry before installing the pan. I get zero leaks and no shifting from the girdle. Only sucks at refresh time.. My motor is also boosted so I only spin it to 6800.
67 Barracuda, 470" B, Glide, FuelTech FT600, Precision, Ptc, QA1, Calvert, Smith racecraft, Afco, Dana 60. 275 radials
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Re: Strong B-block bottom end for max hp effort
[Re: Lifsgrt]
#2224460
01/01/17 01:42 AM
01/01/17 01:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
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That was always my question on the functionality of girdles. How solid can they be when sandwiched in between gaskets? I always felt that a girdle should be "glued" to the rail, but fastened directly with flush mount tapered locating bolts in an alternate pattern of the pan gasket, so that the girdle isn't dependent on being held in place by a compressible gasket/ hardware.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: Strong B-block bottom end for max hp effort
[Re: Lifsgrt]
#2224512
01/01/17 02:25 AM
01/01/17 02:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,996 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,996
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Look at a KB double bolted block for an idea of what I think would help a stock block live. The double bolt , both top and side, main caps would have to be very large, because the only way to build it would be to build it all below the pan rail. that would create quite a massive add on structure, but if money is not an issue, well, thats' what racers do to win. The idea is to make the whole deal, main caps and what they are bolted to, so massive that any load put on a single bearing is also transferred to the adjacent two and beyond. That would greatly reduce the stress on the main web area of the cap at the center of the load.
Last edited by gregsdart; 01/01/17 02:33 AM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Strong B-block bottom end for max hp effort
[Re: TRENDZ]
#2225024
01/01/17 07:32 PM
01/01/17 07:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
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That was always my question on the functionality of girdles. How solid can they be when sandwiched in between gaskets? I always felt that a girdle should be "glued" to the rail, but fastened directly with flush mount tapered locating bolts in an alternate pattern of the pan gasket, so that the girdle isn't dependent on being held in place by a compressible gasket/ hardware. there is no gasket between the girdle and the block on my BCR kit, I used a very light coat of grey silicon between the girdle and pan rail, all the perimeter bolts are studs and the nut's are counter sunk into the girdle, then there is the pan gasket and pan over top of those nut's and that is held in place by another set of nut's on the exsisting pan rail stud's, you can drop the pan and never disturb the girdle, nice well thought out system in my opinion.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: Strong B-block bottom end for max hp effort
[Re: dartman366]
#2225071
01/01/17 09:17 PM
01/01/17 09:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
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That was always my question on the functionality of girdles. How solid can they be when sandwiched in between gaskets? I always felt that a girdle should be "glued" to the rail, but fastened directly with flush mount tapered locating bolts in an alternate pattern of the pan gasket, so that the girdle isn't dependent on being held in place by a compressible gasket/ hardware. there is no gasket between the girdle and the block on my BCR kit, I used a very light coat of grey silicon between the girdle and pan rail, all the perimeter bolts are studs and the nut's are counter sunk into the girdle, then there is the pan gasket and pan over top of those nut's and that is held in place by another set of nut's on the exsisting pan rail stud's, you can drop the pan and never disturb the girdle, nice well thought out system in my opinion. Ok. Pretty much what I was thinking on how it should be. Never used one myself. As for dad's setup there, Pretty dang nice. SKILZ!
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: Strong B-block bottom end for max hp effort
[Re: TRENDZ]
#2225088
01/01/17 09:41 PM
01/01/17 09:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
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That was always my question on the functionality of girdles. How solid can they be when sandwiched in between gaskets? I always felt that a girdle should be "glued" to the rail, but fastened directly with flush mount tapered locating bolts in an alternate pattern of the pan gasket, so that the girdle isn't dependent on being held in place by a compressible gasket/ hardware. there is no gasket between the girdle and the block on my BCR kit, I used a very light coat of grey silicon between the girdle and pan rail, all the perimeter bolts are studs and the nut's are counter sunk into the girdle, then there is the pan gasket and pan over top of those nut's and that is held in place by another set of nut's on the exsisting pan rail stud's, you can drop the pan and never disturb the girdle, nice well thought out system in my opinion. Ok. Pretty much what I was thinking on how it should be. Never used one myself. As for dad's setup there, Pretty dang nice. SKILZ! he must be a machinist by trade?? look's pretty nice, kind of like the way the small blocks are, cap's are tied together but not to the block/panrail, I used a Hughes on my 408 and they just tie the caps together like that.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: Strong B-block bottom end for max hp effort
[Re: WedgeFED]
#2226095
01/03/17 01:45 AM
01/03/17 01:45 AM
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Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 259 Scatchamatoon
Saskabusa
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 259
Scatchamatoon
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Something my Dad created. That look interesting. Was this ever run?
1974 Roadrunner
1967 Charger
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