Jesel alignment problem
#2157682
09/19/16 08:20 PM
09/19/16 08:20 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169 Virginia Beach, VA
Old School
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super stock
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OP
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Posts: 1,169
Virginia Beach, VA
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On my 588 inch motor, I have Indy 572-13 heads, With jesel 1.7 rocker arms. Two of the intake arms do not line up with the valve tip. The others are OK and all the exhaust are perfect. I would like a opinions on if these are okay to run? Cam is a solid roller. .800". This is going in A Streetcar.
Last edited by Old School; 09/19/16 08:27 PM.
68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME) 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!
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Re: Jesel alignment problem
[Re: Old School]
#2157688
09/19/16 08:32 PM
09/19/16 08:32 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,317 State of confusion
Thumperdart
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I Live Here
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State of confusion
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Needs to be shimmed to center the valve tip...........
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: Jesel alignment problem
[Re: Thumperdart]
#2157691
09/19/16 08:34 PM
09/19/16 08:34 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169 Virginia Beach, VA
Old School
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OP
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Posts: 1,169
Virginia Beach, VA
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Needs to be shimmed to center the valve tip........... reading about Gregsdart, I don't want to bind the bearing cages, and have the failures he is dealing with.....
68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME) 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!
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Re: Jesel alignment problem
[Re: Dave Hall]
#2157709
09/19/16 08:56 PM
09/19/16 08:56 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Master
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Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Shims and spacers are usually required, all are ok as long as the rocker has SIDE clearance. Those are controlled by the snap ring.. they are wrong.. send them back for replacements.. they should line up perfectly... you dont put spacers on those EDIT send Jesel a pic of them so they see the issue.. they will replace them.... if need be they can move the snap ring grooves over to center the rockers if they are in spec now.. they may charge you for that.. but it would be cheap.. how is the push rod on those 2 sets.. does the push rod show to be off... measure what it takes to center them so you can tell Jesel
Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 09/19/16 09:18 PM.
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Re: Jesel alignment problem
[Re: 440Jim]
#2157821
09/19/16 11:25 PM
09/19/16 11:25 PM
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,169 Virginia Beach, VA
Old School
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I agree with Mr.P. The location is fixed by the snap rings on the shafts. Either the head valve location is wrong, or the rocker offset on those two is wrong. I would not run them that way with 0.800" lift. Swap them from another cylinder and find out which is wrong. being that they are indy heads, I would not be surprised if it was the heads. I will move the 2 around and see if the problem follows them.
68 cuda formula S 588" bb 5sp 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (SUBLIME) 70 CUDA CONVERT 500" 5SP (PLUMCRAZY):TOO MUCH HORSEPOWER, IS ALMOST ENOUGH!
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Re: Jesel alignment problem
[Re: Dave Hall]
#2157833
09/19/16 11:36 PM
09/19/16 11:36 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Master
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Romeo MI
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It sure looks like a spacer sitting there on the left in the second image. The rockers are held in place between two grooves in the shaft for snap rings? The grooves providing ample side clearance? That so called spacer is there so the side of the bearing doesnt ride on the snap ring.. it might be abile to be cut down some but it has to be in there.. then you have to add that amount to the other side
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Re: Jesel alignment problem
[Re: Old School]
#2157839
09/19/16 11:45 PM
09/19/16 11:45 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Master
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Romeo MI
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I agree with Mr.P. The location is fixed by the snap rings on the shafts. Either the head valve location is wrong, or the rocker offset on those two is wrong. I would not run them that way with 0.800" lift. Swap them from another cylinder and find out which is wrong. being that they are indy heads, I would not be surprised if it was the heads. I will move the 2 around and see if the problem follows them. IF the guides were off we all know that you wouldnt pull the heads off and send them back to see IF they can or will fix them so you have to work around it.. you could have jesel move them or get 2 shafts with just the mount holes and do your own snap rings grooves.. JMO.. I have the equipment to do it so I would do it myself
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Re: Jesel alignment problem
[Re: Dave Hall]
#2157855
09/20/16 12:14 AM
09/20/16 12:14 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Master
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Romeo MI
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So it spaces the bearing away from the snap ring. What would you call it Mr. P? I'm just looking at the second image posted and if that piece in there to the left of the "spacer" is the snap ring, looks like ample clearance to move that "spacer" to the other side of the bearing and have a whatever smaller "spacer" to keep the bearing off the snap ring to the left. He could try it.. but that spacer needs to have some strength to it.. I'm sure its just nylon.. I dont know how much he can get trying that
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Re: Jesel alignment problem
[Re: Old School]
#2157865
09/20/16 12:28 AM
09/20/16 12:28 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 422 montana
BANDIT
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mopar
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Had the same issue on my 588, with same heads, intakes rockers also.Sent rockers back to Jessel, talked to Joe in rebuilders shop. There are 2 bearings inside of the intake rocker versus one on the exhaust. They can move the bearings around inside of the rocker body to position the rocker correctly. BTW there are spacers there and I did use them to fine tune the positioning of the tip. I race my motor and have been checking them weekly for any wear, so far so good. Jim
64 Dodge Coronet 440. In progress 1998. Dodge Avenger. 8.35@165. 4400 DA 250” Neil and Parks Slip Joint. 7.36@183. 4600 DA 242" Mullis Dragster. 6.90@ 200mph
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Re: Jesel alignment problem
[Re: Dave Hall]
#2157868
09/20/16 12:29 AM
09/20/16 12:29 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Master
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Romeo MI
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On his it does look like the shaft can turn end to end.. on my TDs they cant.. but his bolt spacing is equal.. your right that the others dont have a spacer
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Re: Jesel alignment problem
[Re: Old School]
#2157875
09/20/16 12:39 AM
09/20/16 12:39 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 422 montana
BANDIT
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mopar
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In the second pic he posted, I bet if he moved that spacer over to the other side of the rocker, his tip positioning would be pretty close. Jim.
64 Dodge Coronet 440. In progress 1998. Dodge Avenger. 8.35@165. 4400 DA 250” Neil and Parks Slip Joint. 7.36@183. 4600 DA 242" Mullis Dragster. 6.90@ 200mph
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Re: Jesel alignment problem
[Re: Old School]
#2157879
09/20/16 12:43 AM
09/20/16 12:43 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 422 montana
BANDIT
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mopar
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Oh, pretty sure those shafts cant be turned end for end cause the middle bolt goes in at an angle compared to the outers. Jim.
64 Dodge Coronet 440. In progress 1998. Dodge Avenger. 8.35@165. 4400 DA 250” Neil and Parks Slip Joint. 7.36@183. 4600 DA 242" Mullis Dragster. 6.90@ 200mph
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Re: Jesel alignment problem
[Re: Old School]
#2158762
09/21/16 02:40 PM
09/21/16 02:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,008 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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Those intake rockers are located by the needle bearings against the snap rings. If they are off center, the bearings are out of place and need to be moved. You may need to buy new bearings to fix this. They are needle roller bearings, .750 outside diameter, 9/16 or .563 inside diameter, and .500 (1/2 inch) wide. About $5 each. You can make up the tools to press them in and out by shortening a 9/16 bolt to about 2 inch of smooth shaft, and a piece of steel tubing, 3/4 od that will slide over the bolt , sanded down to go through the .750 rocker body, about 1 1/2 inches long, just longer than the rocker body is wide. Take measurements of the depth the bearings are on rockers that fit, then push out the bearings on the offending rockers and carefully press new ones back in where they need to be. You now have the tools and know how to fix a hurt rocker, but the shafts are usually toast if a bearing lets go. I have spare shafts and bearings for repairs. The exhaust rocker bearings are 3/4 wide, otherwise same dimensions. These offset Jesel intakes have been a huge pain in the butt for me, lots of bearing failures, as you read about. I am currently running bronze washers that run between the intake rocker bodies and the rocker bar. All the intake rocker snap rings and spacers are not used. To get the right thickness I had to order washers that were 7/8 diameter by .062 thick, then open up the center to 9/16 with a die grinder. You can't drill them, at least I couldn't.
Last edited by gregsdart; 09/21/16 02:53 PM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Jesel alignment problem
[Re: gregsdart]
#2158862
09/21/16 05:18 PM
09/21/16 05:18 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 422 montana
BANDIT
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mopar
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Greg, where do you get the bronze washers from? Do they stand up well with the side load? It would be nice to not have to look at the rockers after each day of racing. Jim
64 Dodge Coronet 440. In progress 1998. Dodge Avenger. 8.35@165. 4400 DA 250” Neil and Parks Slip Joint. 7.36@183. 4600 DA 242" Mullis Dragster. 6.90@ 200mph
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Re: Jesel alignment problem
[Re: Old School]
#2158947
09/21/16 07:23 PM
09/21/16 07:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,008 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
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I Live Here
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I can't remember for sure, but any industrial supply house ought to list washers on their web site. I only have about 25 or 30 passes on the washer deal, but they look like they are going to hold up.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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