|
Another burnt pushrod!
#2152497
09/11/16 07:03 PM
09/11/16 07:03 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,008
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
OP
I Live Here
|
OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,008
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
|
Right after the trans brake quit, I loaded up and came home, thinking the motor was in good shape. As I pulled up onto the lift it started to pop and miss, then REALLY got noisy! Same # 2 intake, worn so bad the lash cap was off, metal every where. I checked both pushrods on that cylinder, BONE DRY! I am supposed to have pushrod oiling. I spent a lot of $$ for Isky EZ rolls, asked for pushrod oiling, and for some reason don't have it.
The spray bars kept the other fourteen alive, but there must not be any oil directed properly at that number two intake, and maybe #1 intake as well, which failed last time out. So, the phone calls will be going out tomorrow, hopefully I will get some answers.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
|
|
|
Re: Another burnt pushrod!
[Re: gregsdart]
#2152512
09/11/16 07:26 PM
09/11/16 07:26 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,178
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
|
"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,178
PA.
|
Man I really hate to see you have these issues on a system that can work sooooo great with the factory oiling. I'm going to say I have 1000 plus runs between 8.40 and 9.10 with the stock non-pushrod oiling set-up. Never once hurt a pushrod or a lifter. I love simplicity. Only issue I had was to much oil so I put a restrictor in the back of the block and ran the heck out of it. I hope your luck turns around
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
|
|
|
Re: Another burnt pushrod!
[Re: gregsdart]
#2152924
09/12/16 07:57 AM
09/12/16 07:57 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,008
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
OP
I Live Here
|
OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,008
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
|
Megablock, cast 1998?, bushed lifter bores, .060 hole drilled in bushing into the oil galley, Jesel rockers, Mike Jones inverted flank roller, .867 lift, supposed to be easy on parts due to very long lash ramps. Springs are PAC 1228 in at 2.035, advertised numbers say about 320 on the seat, 825 open at net lift .
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
|
|
|
Re: Another burnt pushrod!
[Re: gregsdart]
#2152953
09/12/16 10:01 AM
09/12/16 10:01 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
USA
B3RE
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
USA
|
Hey Greg,
Sorry to hear about all the issues. I realize you were supposed to have pushrod oiling, but the spray bars should be adequate, if there is enough oil volume. Do you know the spray hole size and quantity, and the restrictor size feeding the head?
I had a problem with number 1 and number 2 intake rockers on a Hemi not getting enough oil from the spray bar and it was turning the roller and valve tip blue from heat. When I calculated the total area of the spray bar holes, and compared them to the restrictor, they were exactly the same. Considering that pressure will drop over distance, it didn't have enough volume to maintain pressure at the furthest point from the source, so it just dribbled oil and didn't actually spray. I'm going to assume your spray bars are fed from the rear of the block, so numbers 1 and 2 are furthest from the source, and may need a little more volume to get a good spray on the adjusters. It's worth a look.
Mike Beachel
I didn't write the rules of math nor create the laws of physics, I am just bound by them.
|
|
|
Re: Another burnt pushrod!
[Re: B3RE]
#2152998
09/12/16 11:53 AM
09/12/16 11:53 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,008
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
OP
I Live Here
|
OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,008
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
|
Hey Greg,
Sorry to hear about all the issues. I realize you were supposed to have pushrod oiling, but the spray bars should be adequate, if there is enough oil volume. Do you know the spray hole size and quantity, and the restrictor size feeding the head?
I had a problem with number 1 and number 2 intake rockers on a Hemi not getting enough oil from the spray bar and it was turning the roller and valve tip blue from heat. When I calculated the total area of the spray bar holes, and compared them to the restrictor, they were exactly the same. Considering that pressure will drop over distance, it didn't have enough volume to maintain pressure at the furthest point from the source, so it just dribbled oil and didn't actually spray. I'm going to assume your spray bars are fed from the rear of the block, so numbers 1 and 2 are furthest from the source, and may need a little more volume to get a good spray on the adjusters. It's worth a look. Mike, I think you have something there. I restricted those fittings on the outside of the valve covers a long time ago because I have always run pushrod oiling as well, and that may well be why there was no problem until now when I went to the Isky roller lifters. There is no large hole next to the oil galley area like the Comp lifters.
Last edited by gregsdart; 09/12/16 11:56 AM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
|
|
|
Re: Another burnt pushrod!
[Re: gregsdart]
#2153001
09/12/16 12:03 PM
09/12/16 12:03 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499
So. Burlington, Vt.
|
How does the oil get from your .060 hole in the bushing into the slot on the lifter body?
Unless I'm missing something, this really doesn't look like it's going to provide proper oiling on a mopar.
I would much rather see a full diameter oil band on the lifter body, that's getting pressure from the feed hole 100% of the time, then have edge orifices above the band in line with the axles.
On the motors I've done with spray bar oiling, I have one .060 restrictor per side.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
|
|
|
Re: Another burnt pushrod!
[Re: gregsdart]
#2153008
09/12/16 12:14 PM
09/12/16 12:14 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
USA
B3RE
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
USA
|
Hey Greg,
Sorry to hear about all the issues. I realize you were supposed to have pushrod oiling, but the spray bars should be adequate, if there is enough oil volume. Do you know the spray hole size and quantity, and the restrictor size feeding the head?
I had a problem with number 1 and number 2 intake rockers on a Hemi not getting enough oil from the spray bar and it was turning the roller and valve tip blue from heat. When I calculated the total area of the spray bar holes, and compared them to the restrictor, they were exactly the same. Considering that pressure will drop over distance, it didn't have enough volume to maintain pressure at the furthest point from the source, so it just dribbled oil and didn't actually spray. I'm going to assume your spray bars are fed from the rear of the block, so numbers 1 and 2 are furthest from the source, and may need a little more volume to get a good spray on the adjusters. It's worth a look. Mike, I think you have something there. I restricted those fittings on the outside of the valve covers a long time ago because I have always run pushrod oiling as well, and that may well be why there was no problem until now when I went to the Isky roller lifters. There is no large hole next to the oil galley area like the Comp lifters. You will still need a certain amount of restriction to keep from flooding the top end with oil, but it might just need opened up another .010" or so. I would try priming the motor with a drill, and keep opening the restrictor until it gets oil on all the adjusters. That should equate to adequate oiling at idle, and as long as the oil pressure doesn't drop off on top end, you should be good to go. If it drops off at higher rpm, you might have to reduce the size of the spray bar holes to reduce pressure loss, but I doubt you will.
Mike Beachel
I didn't write the rules of math nor create the laws of physics, I am just bound by them.
|
|
|
Re: Another burnt pushrod!
[Re: gregsdart]
#2153012
09/12/16 12:17 PM
09/12/16 12:17 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
USA
B3RE
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
USA
|
Pictures of the lifters. There is a hole above each side of the axle, about .043. They are low enough that they are exposed about 3/4 of the time below the lifter bore. That hole looks like it is only meant to oil the axle. I don't see that being a feed for pushrod oiling.
Mike Beachel
I didn't write the rules of math nor create the laws of physics, I am just bound by them.
|
|
|
Re: Another burnt pushrod!
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2153017
09/12/16 12:25 PM
09/12/16 12:25 PM
|
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
USA
B3RE
mopar
|
mopar
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 561
USA
|
How does the oil get from your .060 hole in the bushing into the slot on the lifter body?
Unless I'm missing something, this really doesn't look like it's going to provide proper oiling on a mopar.
I would much rather see a full diameter oil band on the lifter body, that's getting pressure from the feed hole 100% of the time, then have edge orifices above the band in line with the axles.
On the motors I've done with spray bar oiling, I have one .060 restrictor per side. .060" should be about right, but it depends on how many holes are in the spray bar, and how much area they have bleeding off pressure. I had to go from .040" to .060" to get oil spraying at the front of the spray bar, and that was with only four .020" holes in the bar. More holes will bleed more pressure with a given area (diameter).
Mike Beachel
I didn't write the rules of math nor create the laws of physics, I am just bound by them.
|
|
|
Re: Another burnt pushrod!
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2153056
09/12/16 02:02 PM
09/12/16 02:02 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,008
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
OP
I Live Here
|
OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,008
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
|
How does the oil get from your .060 hole in the bushing into the slot on the lifter body?
Unless I'm missing something, this really doesn't look like it's going to provide proper oiling on a mopar.
I would much rather see a full diameter oil band on the lifter body, that's getting pressure from the feed hole 100% of the time, then have edge orifices above the band in line with the axles.
On the motors I've done with spray bar oiling, I have one .060 restrictor per side. On some of the Comp Cams roller lifters I used, the oil hole on the lifter was right in line and fed directly from the oil galley, which was too much oil through the pushrods, according to Brian at IMM? I bought lifters from him, Comp again, but with feed holes ninety degrees (no longer directly exposed) to the .060 hole in my bushings. Everything worked fine. I do remember oil in the pushrods, so it was flowing around the lifter body and entering the feed hole and up through the pushrod. It is pretty obvious now that I got lifters without oiling, and I will test the spraybar system and check to see what I put in there for restrictors. The Isky EZ roll lifters were drop shipped to me directly from Isky, and they sent the wrong ones. Brian told me to send them back to Isky and he would get this taken care of. That is great customer service. Thanks Brain!! 
Last edited by gregsdart; 09/12/16 02:18 PM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
|
|
|
Re: Another burnt pushrod!
[Re: gregsdart]
#2153070
09/12/16 02:38 PM
09/12/16 02:38 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499
So. Burlington, Vt.
|
..... but with feed holes ninety degrees (no longer directly exposed) to the .060 hole in my bushings. Everything worked fine. That's the correct way to have it....... And like you said, it worked fine. With the lifters in the pic, even if they have a hole from the slot that feeds the pushrods..... How does the oil get into the slot? The smooth part of the lifter body just blocks off the hole in the bushing. The way those lifters are set up, they don't do a good job of oiling the roller either..... For the same reason. No way to get the pressurized oil into the slot. Unless, as I stated previously...... I'm missing something. I'd send 'em back......they're not what you wanted..... And it's not like they're cheap either. Edit: I just blew the pic up and finally saw the roller oiling holes. Looks like that's just splash oiling to me. I'm no engineer, but that seems like a fairly highly stressed area of the lifter body to drill an extra hole into........ Right above the axle.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
|
|
|
Re: Another burnt pushrod!
[Re: gregsdart]
#2153088
09/12/16 03:07 PM
09/12/16 03:07 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499
So. Burlington, Vt.
|
If you can live with "standard duty" Comp lifters and want pushrod oiling for a bb, and don't need offset pushrod seats, just use the AMC lifter(861) along with the bb mopar link bars(829L).
These will have the same pushrod seat height as the 892(not 829) and 87016, but with the oil hole parallel to the axle.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
|
|
|
Re: Another burnt pushrod!
[Re: gregsdart]
#2153208
09/12/16 06:28 PM
09/12/16 06:28 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499
So. Burlington, Vt.
|
Doug, your lifters have a "band"? Not slots like the ones in the pic?
Feed holes parallel or perpendicular to the axles?
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
|
|
|
Re: Another burnt pushrod!
[Re: fast68plymouth]
#2153272
09/12/16 08:28 PM
09/12/16 08:28 PM
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,843
MI, usa
dvw
master
|
master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,843
MI, usa
|
Doug, your lifters have a "band"? Not slots like the ones in the pic?
Feed holes parallel or perpendicular to the axles? Yes, a band push rod holes 90 degrees to the axle. I found a pic Doug
Last edited by dvw; 09/12/16 08:48 PM.
|
|
|
Re: Another burnt pushrod!
[Re: gregsdart]
#2153281
09/12/16 08:41 PM
09/12/16 08:41 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499
So. Burlington, Vt.
fast68plymouth
I Live Here
|
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 14,499
So. Burlington, Vt.
|
On one of the motors I put together using Jesel rockers, I thought I'd be a smart guy and go with pushrod oiling.
It was built from an aluminum World block with bushed lifter bores, so I got some Comp 892's for it.
Had it all together, primed the motor....... And as soon as the drill bogged a bit from building oil pressure in the system, oil shot out of the top of one of the rockers 15-20 feet across the shop.
Apparently, the hole in the bushing and the hole in the lifter were lined right up with each other when the cam was on the based circle.
With the drill even barely turning oil just gushed out of whichever rockers were mostly closed.
When I saw it my thought was, "well....... I guess that's not going to work".
That was completely unrestricted oil flow to the top end.
Ordered some 87019's(no oil holes) and spray bar valve covers..... And that was that.
68 Satellite, 383 with stock 906’s, 3550lbs, 11.18@123
Dealer for Comp Cams/Indy Heads
|
|
|
Re: Another burnt pushrod!
[Re: gregsdart]
#2153358
09/12/16 10:43 PM
09/12/16 10:43 PM
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,008
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
OP
I Live Here
|
OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,008
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
|
The lifters are on their way to Isky, so in about a week or so I should have some parts to test. Now to figure out why I have three relatively new intake rockers with busted needle bearing cages  I've seen them break on the outer edge of the cage next to the snap rings, but these are all broken inside, where there shouldn't be any side load. I am glad I took the time to check them. They felt fine till I tried to rotate them a full 360 around the shafts, then I could feel some bind, and found the broken ones.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
|
|
|
|
|
.JPG "Name: P1010040 (1).JPG
Views: 629
Size: 1.48 MB
ID: 254986")
