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Running out of fuel street HEMI #2136081
08/18/16 07:02 PM
08/18/16 07:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
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MN
36viper Offline OP
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36viper  Offline OP
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MN
Hi guys!
I have always had an apparent fuel delivery problem in my '68 HEMI Charger. On hard acceleration from slow roll or stop, it begins to pop and loose power around 80mph.. It pulls really hard if one is just cruising around in 4th gear and steps on the throttle. Its also really strong up to 80 mph when accelerating hard. After experiencing the problem, I installed a high output fuel pump, but it still didn't cure the issue.
The 426 HEMI has a moderate build and requires 50% race gas.
Someone told me that I should put a fuel flow restrictor in the return line to the tank, that is designed to prevent vapor lock, that the carbs would get more fuel and wouldn't run low on sustained acceleration. He said I should drill a certain sized hole into a bolt, and insert in into the 3/8" line to reduce the amount of gas that's returning to the tank. I'm thinking of putting a vice grip on the return line, to see if it solves the problem, then I'll make a restrictor for the return line if the vice grip solves the problem.
The fuel gauge just quit working, so I'll check the filter on the end of the pick-up line when I'm working on the sending unit. Maybe it's plugged, or maybe there is an air leak in the fuel line somewhere???


Thank you Moparts for the help!
Re: Running out of fuel street HEMI [Re: 36viper] #2136088
08/18/16 07:12 PM
08/18/16 07:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Is it a mech pump or electric... what carbs..
what size needle/seat.. have you done a flow
check(gals per minute).. do you still have the
stock sock on the pick up... do the filters have
enough flow... thats a start
wave

Re: Running out of fuel street HEMI [Re: 36viper] #2136234
08/18/16 10:54 PM
08/18/16 10:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,250
North Carolina
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469runner Offline
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Check the fuel pump pushrod to see if it is worn. If it is, it won't give the pump a full stroke.

Re: Running out of fuel street HEMI [Re: 469runner] #2136308
08/19/16 12:01 AM
08/19/16 12:01 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 36
MN
36viper Offline OP
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36viper  Offline OP
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MN
It's a new high output mechanical fuel pump. It didn't seem to help with the supply problem. I'll check the sock this week.


Thank you Moparts for the help!
Re: Running out of fuel street HEMI [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2136310
08/19/16 12:04 AM
08/19/16 12:04 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 36
MN
36viper Offline OP
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36viper  Offline OP
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MN
Factory carbs and jetting, new mechanical pump.


Thank you Moparts for the help!
Re: Running out of fuel street HEMI [Re: 36viper] #2136314
08/19/16 12:10 AM
08/19/16 12:10 AM
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Australia
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ozymaxwedge Offline
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From reg to carb you want 6-7 psi running, having a gauge set up so you can see it when the problems start will tell you. Is your fuel pressure dropping off ?



Last edited by ozymaxwedge; 08/19/16 12:12 AM.

1963 Plymouth Max Wedge
1971 Barracuda
Re: Running out of fuel street HEMI [Re: 36viper] #2136323
08/19/16 12:23 AM
08/19/16 12:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 4,270
Morrow, OH
markz528 Offline
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markz528  Offline
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Morrow, OH
I struggled with a high output mechanical pump on my 440. I consider myself pretty competent and I gave up. Went electric.

Did a bunch of testing and tried a couple of pumps. All were Carter.


67 Coronet 500 9.610 @ 139.20 mph
67 Coronet 500 (street car) 14.82 @ 94 mph
69 GTX (clone) - build in progress......
Re: Running out of fuel street HEMI [Re: ozymaxwedge] #2136344
08/19/16 12:45 AM
08/19/16 12:45 AM
Joined: Aug 2003
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Bend,OR USA
Originally Posted By ozymaxwedge


From reg to carb you want 6-7 psi running, having a gauge set up so you can see it when the problems start will tell you. Is your fuel pressure dropping off ?


iagree
To fix the problems you need to know first what they are scopeI use to race two non original street Hemi cars in NHRA stock back in the early to mid 1970s. Both had 5/16 lines and pickups, both needed the Carter 3 valve race Hemi H.P. NASCAR type pumps to run with enough fuel supply shruggy scope
Good luck, let us know what you find and do to fix that problem thumbs

Last edited by Cab_Burge; 08/19/16 12:47 AM.

Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Running out of fuel street HEMI [Re: 36viper] #2136481
08/19/16 10:17 AM
08/19/16 10:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,365
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
Get rid of the sock filter in the tank.

Remove and measure the length of the fuel pump pushrod to make sure it isn't worn.

You should be able to eliminate the return line.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Running out of fuel street HEMI [Re: an8sec70cuda] #2136675
08/19/16 03:33 PM
08/19/16 03:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,185
Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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Wasn't the special OEM fuel filter used on the original cars suppose to be a vapor seperator? Not for liquid returns is what I remember work


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Running out of fuel street HEMI [Re: 36viper] #2136714
08/19/16 04:44 PM
08/19/16 04:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
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usa
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lewtot184 Offline
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the aftermarket vapor seperaters have too large of a return orifice. i solder the hole up and re-drill to .046". not all aftermarket "high performance" mechanical pumps are equal.

Re: Running out of fuel street HEMI [Re: lewtot184] #2136720
08/19/16 05:02 PM
08/19/16 05:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
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State of confusion
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Thumperdart Offline
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Mechanical heat sinking pumps = down


72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
Re: Running out of fuel street HEMI [Re: Thumperdart] #2136746
08/19/16 06:07 PM
08/19/16 06:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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X3, see what you have AT the carbs at the offending RPM/load with an accurate gauge on the cowl or plumbed inside (just for the test of course! or with an isolator for safety)


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Running out of fuel street HEMI [Re: Cab_Burge] #2136910
08/19/16 10:40 PM
08/19/16 10:40 PM
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fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
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fredericksburg,va
Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
Wasn't the special OEM fuel filter used on the original cars suppose to be a vapor seperator? Not for liquid returns is what I remember work

I never heard of a return line to the tank, vapor can like Cab said, could be broke and just circling back to pump. Hemi cars came with 3/8 line. That stock pump "should" pump enough fuel for the carbs, cover the lines from heat to stop vapor lock. My two cents.

Re: Running out of fuel street HEMI [Re: cudaman1969] #2136915
08/19/16 10:48 PM
08/19/16 10:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Originally Posted By cudaman1969
Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
Wasn't the special OEM fuel filter used on the original cars suppose to be a vapor seperator? Not for liquid returns is what I remember work

I never heard of a return line to the tank, vapor can like Cab said, could be broke and just circling back to pump. Hemi cars came with 3/8 line. That stock pump "should" pump enough fuel for the carbs, cover the lines from heat to stop vapor lock. My two cents.


The sock in the tank will separate water until
its totally under water.. but its not 100%..
the return just has a orifice.. pretty sure back
then it was .060
EDIT
Yes they did have a return to the tank... any of
the so called performance engines had a return..
any that had a 3/8 supply had a return
wave

Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 08/19/16 10:54 PM.
Re: Running out of fuel street HEMI [Re: MR_P_BODY] #2136986
08/20/16 12:37 AM
08/20/16 12:37 AM
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Posts: 8,270
fredericksburg,va
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cudaman1969 Offline
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Originally Posted By MR_P_BODY
Originally Posted By cudaman1969
Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
Wasn't the special OEM fuel filter used on the original cars suppose to be a vapor seperator? Not for liquid returns is what I remember work

I never heard of a return line to the tank, vapor can like Cab said, could be broke and just circling back to pump. Hemi cars came with 3/8 line. That stock pump "should" pump enough fuel for the carbs, cover the lines from heat to stop vapor lock. My two cents.


The sock in the tank will separate water until
its totally under water.. but its not 100%..
the return just has a orifice.. pretty sure back
then it was .060
EDIT
Yes they did have a return to the tank... any of
the so called performance engines had a return..
any that had a 3/8 supply had a return
wave

Return line or vent line? How big a performance engine did it have to be? My a-body m-code 440 only has one 3/8 line, maybe because it started as a 383?

Re: Running out of fuel street HEMI [Re: cudaman1969] #2137037
08/20/16 01:31 AM
08/20/16 01:31 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Originally Posted By cudaman1969
U
Originally Posted By MR_P_BODY
Originally Posted By cudaman1969
Originally Posted By Cab_Burge
Wasn't the special OEM fuel filter used on the original cars suppose to be a vapor seperator? Not for liquid returns is what I remember work

I never heard of a return line to the tank, vapor can like Cab said, could be broke and just circling back to pump. Hemi cars came with 3/8 line. That stock pump "should" pump enough fuel for the carbs, cover the lines from heat to stop vapor lock. My two cents.


The sock in the tank will separate water until
its totally under water.. but its not 100%..
the return just has a orifice.. pretty sure back
then it was .060
EDIT
Yes they did have a return to the tank... any of
the so called performance engines had a return..
any that had a 3/8 supply had a return
wave

Return line or vent line? How big a performance engine did it have to be? My a-body m-code 440 only has one 3/8 line, maybe because it started as a 383?


If t was factory and labeled HP it had 3/8 supply
and a 1/4 return and a 1/4 vent... a 3 tube bundle
clamped together in the 70s with the charcoal canister
up front.. otherwise it had the vent in the frame rail
on older years but still had the 3/8 and 1/4 going forward
if it went into the fame rail it was likely a 3/16 vent
wave

Re: Running out of fuel street HEMI [Re: 36viper] #2137666
08/21/16 04:24 AM
08/21/16 04:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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383man Offline
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Balt. Md
Some of the Mopars had the 3 tube fuel filters which many called a vapor seperator. The third line did go back to the fuel tank but it was not for fuel flow like a fuel pressure regulator can use it was a vapor return line as it had a small orifice somewhere around .050 to let fuel vapors escape out of the fuel line/filter and route it back to the tank. A small amount of fuel could also go back to the tank along with the vapor but the orifice was small enough that only a very small amount of fuel could get through the orifice which was not enough to cause a fuel pressure loss but letting the fuel vapors escape helped the car run better. Ron

Re: Running out of fuel street HEMI [Re: 36viper] #2137690
08/21/16 09:01 AM
08/21/16 09:01 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,395
Pa
Hot 340 Offline
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I had a pretty new carter crap the bed. So have many others. I dont think the quality is there with their mechanical pumps. If all else checks out, try a holley pump.

Re: Running out of fuel street HEMI [Re: Hot 340] #2137711
08/21/16 09:51 AM
08/21/16 09:51 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 668
Hamburg, Pa.
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72 RR DUDE Offline
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Have a 72 RR that I restored about 5 years ago and put a 440 + 6 in the car and the engine was mildly build but it couldn't even spin the tires.Have a 3/8 fuel line and the vapor line to the front. After checking everything possible after all the searching I stumbled on to the problem about a month ago. I didn't have a vented gas cap on the car and had created a closed system. I drilled a small hole in the center of the cap and the car run's like a house on fire! P.S. I couldn't find a vented cap they are hard to find thus the hole in the cap!

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