O/2 sensor location,where is the sweet spot???????
#2022554
03/01/16 01:28 PM
03/01/16 01:28 PM
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Posts: 12,592 Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
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I'm getting some silly readings from the O/2 sensor,the log looks more like a seismograph.I have the sensor about 8 inches from the header pipe merge in the bend inward toward the "X" . Monte said it's most likely in a turbulent location.The sensor is at the 9 o'clock position. SO where IS the sweet spot to install the sensor???
Last edited by hemi-itis; 03/01/16 01:57 PM.
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: O/2 sensor location,where is the sweet spot???????
[Re: hemi-itis]
#2022560
03/01/16 01:38 PM
03/01/16 01:38 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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I put them in a straight run area.. about 6" after the end of the primaries.. if yu were running open headers I want 8"-10" before the end of the collector.. that way it wont back flow and pick up out side air which could give you bogus readings on shut down or a steady rpm.. make sure the sensor is pointed a little downward (on the inside) the drop off moisture when its cooling... try not to put it near the X.. being that just pulses back and forth
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Re: O/2 sensor location,where is the sweet spot???????
[Re: hemi-itis]
#2022570
03/01/16 01:53 PM
03/01/16 01:53 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 715 Central TEXAS!!!!
sr4440
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I have put sensors all over primary pipe, collector, before the merge, after and 8 inches down stream. I have never had a problem with reading jumping around. With that being said if there is high pressure hitting the O2 sensor the reading will change. On the dyno, when we do a turbo engine, I have a pressure sensor in the exhaust manifold that allows for a correction factor to be used. this is from the Daytona sensor site, they have a chart that show the pressure relationship The Bosch LSU 4 wide-band sensor is affected by exhaust pressure as shown on the graph below. The error (%) applies to the oxygen pump cell current. Note that 1 bar corresponds to normal sea level atmospheric pressure. For most performance applications, excessive exhaust back pressure is not a concern and the resulting small error can be disregarded. At high elevations, the error is also relatively small. At 10,000 feet elevation (about .68 bar), AFR values near 13.0 will be shifted up approximately +0.15 AFR. http://www.daytona-sensors.com/tech_wego.htmlhope this helps joe
Without Data, you’re just another guy with an opinion.
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Re: O/2 sensor location,where is the sweet spot???????
[Re: hemi-itis]
#2022582
03/01/16 02:17 PM
03/01/16 02:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,037 Tulsa OK
Bad340fish
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I would put your exhaust cutouts in before I moved the 02s, that back pressure could be causing the crazy readings.
68 Barracuda Formula S 340
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Re: O/2 sensor location,where is the sweet spot???????
[Re: hemi-itis]
#2022840
03/01/16 10:41 PM
03/01/16 10:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
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The sensor is junk. You could put it on the moon and it would still read lean. Buy a new sensor, do a clean air calibration. Don't run the engine with ratios lower than 12.0:1. Read the manufacturers mounting recommendation. Mount it in a position that is least likely to get any liquid on it.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: O/2 sensor location,where is the sweet spot???????
[Re: hemi-itis]
#2022883
03/01/16 11:44 PM
03/01/16 11:44 PM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,872 Pattison Texas
CSK
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has someone been using leaded fuel. & KILLED the o2 sensor ?
1968 Charger COLD A/C Hilborn EFI 512ci 9.7 compression, Stealth heads, 4.10 gear A518 ODtrans 4100lb,10.93 full street car trim 2020 T/A 392 Stock 11.79 @ 114.5
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Re: O/2 sensor location,where is the sweet spot???????
[Re: CSK]
#2022885
03/01/16 11:50 PM
03/01/16 11:50 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,592 Great Neck,LI,new york
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has someone been using leaded fuel. & KILLED the o2 sensor ? NO That was the last set,,,,,,,,,,
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: O/2 sensor location,where is the sweet spot???????
[Re: TRENDZ]
#2022893
03/02/16 12:04 AM
03/02/16 12:04 AM
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The sensor is junk. You could put it on the moon and it would still read lean. Buy a new sensor, do a clean air calibration. Don't run the engine with ratios lower than 12.0:1. Read the manufacturers mounting recommendation. Mount it in a position that is least likely to get any liquid on it. Put a new set on before parking it for the winter.
Last edited by hemi-itis; 03/02/16 12:23 AM.
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: O/2 sensor location,where is the sweet spot???????
[Re: sr4440]
#2022901
03/02/16 12:14 AM
03/02/16 12:14 AM
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I have put sensors all over primary pipe, collector, before the merge, after and 8 inches down stream. I have never had a problem with reading jumping around. With that being said if there is high pressure hitting the O2 sensor the reading will change. On the dyno, when we do a turbo engine, I have a pressure sensor in the exhaust manifold that allows for a correction factor to be used. this is from the Daytona sensor site, they have a chart that show the pressure relationship The Bosch LSU 4 wide-band sensor is affected by exhaust pressure as shown on the graph below. The error (%) applies to the oxygen pump cell current. Note that 1 bar corresponds to normal sea level atmospheric pressure. For most performance applications, excessive exhaust back pressure is not a concern and the resulting small error can be disregarded. At high elevations, the error is also relatively small. At 10,000 feet elevation (about .68 bar), AFR values near 13.0 will be shifted up approximately +0.15 AFR. http://www.daytona-sensors.com/tech_wego.htmlhope this helps joe What's the difference between pressure & back pressure in the 4 inch pipe??
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: O/2 sensor location,where is the sweet spot???????
[Re: Bad340fish]
#2022912
03/02/16 12:25 AM
03/02/16 12:25 AM
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Joined: Dec 2007
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I would put your exhaust cutouts in before I moved the 02s, that back pressure could be causing the crazy readings. Shopping for pipe & v bands to fab cut outs
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: O/2 sensor location,where is the sweet spot???????
[Re: hemi-itis]
#2022921
03/02/16 12:31 AM
03/02/16 12:31 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 7,506 Az
Crizila
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Could be a wiring problem - loose / bad ground can do that.
Fastest 300
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Re: O/2 sensor location,where is the sweet spot???????
[Re: Crizila]
#2022926
03/02/16 12:43 AM
03/02/16 12:43 AM
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Could be a wiring problem - loose / bad ground can do that. MMMMMMM
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: O/2 sensor location,where is the sweet spot???????
[Re: Crizila]
#2023224
03/02/16 03:50 PM
03/02/16 03:50 PM
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 715 Central TEXAS!!!!
sr4440
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Could be a wiring problem - loose / bad ground can do that. Bit confused by this, with no volts the O2 sensor (mine) will read 10.4 AFR and with full voltage (5 volts) it will read 19.5. So if it is a loose ground, I would expect a rich reading followed by a lean spike when it reconnected (maybe?). Joe
Last edited by sr4440; 03/02/16 03:53 PM.
Without Data, you’re just another guy with an opinion.
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Re: O/2 sensor location,where is the sweet spot???????
[Re: hemi-itis]
#2023238
03/02/16 04:09 PM
03/02/16 04:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
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The sensor is junk. You could put it on the moon and it would still read lean. Buy a new sensor, do a clean air calibration. Don't run the engine with ratios lower than 12.0:1. Read the manufacturers mounting recommendation. Mount it in a position that is least likely to get any liquid on it. Put a new set on before parking it for the winter. A new "set"? Do you have 2 sensors? Did you get the same results with the new sensor(s)? I assume the wb control box has a +5v out. Are you also using a shared SIGNAL ground?
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: O/2 sensor location,where is the sweet spot???????
[Re: TRENDZ]
#2023379
03/02/16 07:45 PM
03/02/16 07:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,592 Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
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The sensor is junk. You could put it on the moon and it would still read lean. Buy a new sensor, do a clean air calibration. Don't run the engine with ratios lower than 12.0:1. Read the manufacturers mounting recommendation. Mount it in a position that is least likely to get any liquid on it. Put a new set on before parking it for the winter. A new "set"? Do you have 2 sensors? Did you get the same results with the new sensor(s)? I assume the wb control box has a +5v out. Are you also using a shared SIGNAL ground? Have not been out yet with the new pair of Bosch sensors. Not sure on the shared signal ground,,,,,,,,,,
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: O/2 sensor location,where is the sweet spot???????
[Re: sr4440]
#2023380
03/02/16 07:50 PM
03/02/16 07:50 PM
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hemi-itis
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Could be a wiring problem - loose / bad ground can do that. Bit confused by this, with no volts the O2 sensor (mine) will read 10.4 AFR and with full voltage (5 volts) it will read 19.5. So if it is a loose ground, I would expect a rich reading followed by a lean spike when it reconnected (maybe?). Joe You might be in the same boat,,,,,,,,,,,
Last edited by hemi-itis; 03/02/16 07:52 PM.
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: O/2 sensor location,where is the sweet spot???????
[Re: hemi-itis]
#2024101
03/03/16 10:12 PM
03/03/16 10:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540 Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
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Really just shooting in the dark here. I cant tell scale/ value without a ref point. You say you have 2 sensors. I see the other sensor is showing close to the same value at the cursor time line. As a trend, are they both reading the same values? If so, I guess my bad sensor theory is out the window. Are your sensor outputs calibrated correctly to your logger? Many WB controllers have configurable outputs. I usually set the low voltage(rich) to .5 volts 10:1 a/f ratio. Then set my high voltage(lean) to 4.5 volts 20:1 a/f ratio. This gives wiggle room when setting the logger/ecu input values. There are very few instances when I see NO offset voltage between output and input readings on two separate devices. I check the offset amount by setting the wideband controller to send out a straight line voltage, regardless of a/f ratio. As an example... 10:1 a/f = .5 volts 20:1 a/f = .5 volts Now your wideband should be outputting .5 volts no matter what the ratio is. Check your datalog. If the voltage doesn't read .5 volts, you need to mathematically change either the output voltage, or the read value. Do the same with the high voltage... 10:1 a/f = 4.5 volts 20:1 a/f = 4.5 volts Same deal. I keep that .5 volt window on the high and low side for offset changes. If you don't need the "windows" on the high or low side, you can widen the voltage swings(.2 volts-4.8 volts) to get better resolution. The reason I asked about sensor ground commonality, is there are frequently these ground offsets. Some manufaturers dont want other devices to share, and some do.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: O/2 sensor location,where is the sweet spot???????
[Re: hemi-itis]
#2024230
03/04/16 01:43 AM
03/04/16 01:43 AM
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Posts: 12,592 Great Neck,LI,new york
hemi-itis
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At his point,I must verify the grounds for the o/2s and see it the new sensors give a better readout.I figure 2s or 3 passes to verify where I left off last.Then open the cut outs and see what happens. Took a few more pics and must figure out how I want to fab the cutouts.
HEMI-ITIS has no cure. My condition is fully BLOWN!!
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Re: O/2 sensor location,where is the sweet spot???????
[Re: hemi-itis]
#2024646
03/04/16 08:15 PM
03/04/16 08:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 8,186 Plymouth, MI
Blusmbl
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Listen to what Trendz wrote. Others have mentioned there is no way the car can run at 19:1 a/f under load, and both sensors are reading lean. There is likely a wiring problem, and you can start by checking the voltage being read at your data acquisition unit.
'18 Ford Raptor, random motorcycles, 1968 Plymouth Fury III - 11.37 @ 118
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