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Re: The best CNC head porting shop???
[Re: BradH]
#1689188
10/24/14 10:02 AM
10/24/14 10:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,363
Marion, South Carolina [><]
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I don't care how good of a programer you may or may not be nothing replaces flow bench and track testing. 
 totally
But with the proper feedback and the right machinist and or programmer it would be darn close right off the machine.
We get it: you REALLY like CNC porting.
You don't seem to get it: CNC aint sh!t if the original hand-carved port isn't right.
It's funny to hear over on SpeedTalk how the guys that do port development go to PRI, etc., and see all these pretty CNC-ported heads that have crappy port & chamber designs... but they LOOK good! 
CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
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Re: The best CNC head porting shop???
[Re: RAMM]
#1689190
10/24/14 10:30 AM
10/24/14 10:30 AM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 403
Romulus, MI
GTS340
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 403
Romulus, MI
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Anyone ever use this place? Wondering how their program is for max wedged BB RPM heads.
http://www.rmcompetition.com/cylinder-heads-.html
Pretty sure Randy uses Modern. J.Rob
The website says they developed ports for...so is Moderns program based on a port RM developed?
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Re: The best CNC head porting shop???
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1689191
10/24/14 10:59 AM
10/24/14 10:59 AM
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
1320Dart
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
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CNC ported heads are still the way to go, because it saves SO MUCH hand work. Most Pro-Stock engine builders order CNC ported castings from CFE by the pallet and then put THEIR touches on it. I have a friend who does Pro-Stock heads and he said he may have 8 hrs in a set of ready to go PS heads now, where he used to spend a week when he started with as cast stuff.
But as stated before, CNC heads should still he touched up by hand for best performance. As an example, I just bought a brand new set of 14* CNC ported Big Chiefs from one of the most well known head shops out there. And even though port and chamber designs have come a long way in the past few years, these heads were identical to the 14* heads I bought from the same company about 6 years ago. That's what I meant about a LOT of companies don't update their programs on a regular basis.
Monte
Hey Monty if you have Mopar heads CNC'd, who do you use?
Greg ----------------------------------------------------------------- Cost is irrelevant, making memories is far more valuable! 
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Re: The best CNC head porting shop???
[Re: 1320Dart]
#1689193
10/24/14 12:17 PM
10/24/14 12:17 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 577
Arkansas
Adrielp
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 577
Arkansas
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As stated, CNC is just an efficient tool that can help speed up the process of porting but just like any other tool it can be misused. Same goes for hand porting as well. I think it pretty clear from what is being said that using a combination of both will yield the best results since no two combinations are the same. Neither process should be villainized.
Adriel Paradise
Substation Design Engineer III
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Re: The best CNC head porting shop???
[Re: 1320Dart]
#1689194
10/24/14 02:27 PM
10/24/14 02:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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CNC ported heads are still the way to go, because it saves SO MUCH hand work. Most Pro-Stock engine builders order CNC ported castings from CFE by the pallet and then put THEIR touches on it. I have a friend who does Pro-Stock heads and he said he may have 8 hrs in a set of ready to go PS heads now, where he used to spend a week when he started with as cast stuff.
But as stated before, CNC heads should still he touched up by hand for best performance. As an example, I just bought a brand new set of 14* CNC ported Big Chiefs from one of the most well known head shops out there. And even though port and chamber designs have come a long way in the past few years, these heads were identical to the 14* heads I bought from the same company about 6 years ago. That's what I meant about a LOT of companies don't update their programs on a regular basis.
Monte
Hey Monty if you have Mopar heads CNC'd, who do you use?
Whoever I buy them from. If I buy INDYs I get the CNC version, if I buy B-1s from Brodix, I get the CNC version. Really doesn't matter, because I know they are going to get worked on more anyway.
Monte
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Re: The best CNC head porting shop???
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1689195
10/24/14 02:36 PM
10/24/14 02:36 PM
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
1320Dart
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
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Quote:
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CNC ported heads are still the way to go, because it saves SO MUCH hand work. Most Pro-Stock engine builders order CNC ported castings from CFE by the pallet and then put THEIR touches on it. I have a friend who does Pro-Stock heads and he said he may have 8 hrs in a set of ready to go PS heads now, where he used to spend a week when he started with as cast stuff.
But as stated before, CNC heads should still he touched up by hand for best performance. As an example, I just bought a brand new set of 14* CNC ported Big Chiefs from one of the most well known head shops out there. And even though port and chamber designs have come a long way in the past few years, these heads were identical to the 14* heads I bought from the same company about 6 years ago. That's what I meant about a LOT of companies don't update their programs on a regular basis.
Monte
Hey Monty if you have Mopar heads CNC'd, who do you use?
Whoever I buy them from. If I buy INDYs I get the CNC version, if I buy B-1s from Brodix, I get the CNC version. Really doesn't matter, because I know they are going to get worked on more anyway.
Monte
Who do you feel does a better CNC job on their deal?
Do you get your B-1's direct from Brodix or Koffel's?
Greg ----------------------------------------------------------------- Cost is irrelevant, making memories is far more valuable!
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Re: The best CNC head porting shop???
[Re: 1320Dart]
#1689196
10/25/14 12:07 AM
10/25/14 12:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,142
Melbourne , Australia
LA360
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,142
Melbourne , Australia
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There are definitely some great porters mentioned, but it's all horses for courses. Many custom porters are going with CNC porting now to save time and make their business more profitable. If I was looking at spending my $$$ with a porting shop, I would be looking at what kind of work comes out of there. At the track, those setting records are using whom?
CNC shops like CFE, MBE, Slawko and Curtis Boggs @ RFD
Old school hand porting? Larry Meaux
Brett's heads have been performing really well, I believe he does the port by hand and has Denis @ Air Flow Development machine them for him.
As has been ported out, most CNC stuff is generic, to meet the requirements of many different customers. In most cases, those seeking more will have them modified afterwards.
Depending on the software used and how the port is digitised will dictate how the surface is generated. I know digitizing off the machine generates a series of points at a series of depths. In something like Mastercam, those points are using to generate a curve, and from those curves a surface is lofted. The surface is copied and offset as a means of tool control. Making changes to the shape requires modifying or re-creating the curve/spline and re-creating the surface. In something like Solidworks it would be easier as it is a parametric modelling software, so dimensions of the curves could be easily changed, and the surface would be updated. If you were using a CAM software that was integrated into Solidworks, it would usually update the tool path as well.
Alan Jones
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Re: The best CNC head porting shop???
[Re: 1320Dart]
#1689198
11/19/14 05:03 PM
11/19/14 05:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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Sounds like a good premise to a "Masters challenge" kind of question, give all the SB gurus a set of w2, tell them to do their magic and stick them on a 408 one after the other and see whos make the most giddy up!
Then we can do a cam challenge where all the top cam guys pick the best cam for a motor and see who can get the most out of a cam recommendation.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: The best CNC head porting shop???
[Re: 1320Dart]
#1689201
11/19/14 05:24 PM
11/19/14 05:24 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
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CNC ported heads are still the way to go, because it saves SO MUCH hand work. Most Pro-Stock engine builders order CNC ported castings from CFE by the pallet and then put THEIR touches on it. I have a friend who does Pro-Stock heads and he said he may have 8 hrs in a set of ready to go PS heads now, where he used to spend a week when he started with as cast stuff.
But as stated before, CNC heads should still he touched up by hand for best performance. As an example, I just bought a brand new set of 14* CNC ported Big Chiefs from one of the most well known head shops out there. And even though port and chamber designs have come a long way in the past few years, these heads were identical to the 14* heads I bought from the same company about 6 years ago. That's what I meant about a LOT of companies don't update their programs on a regular basis.
Monte
Hey Monty if you have Mopar heads CNC'd, who do you use?
Whoever I buy them from. If I buy INDYs I get the CNC version, if I buy B-1s from Brodix, I get the CNC version. Really doesn't matter, because I know they are going to get worked on more anyway.
Monte
Who do you feel does a better CNC job on their deal?
Do you get your B-1's direct from Brodix or Koffel's?
A better job?.........I can't answer that, because I don't run either as received on a race motor, plus they are entirely different heads. So not sure "better" is a relative question. Guess it would depend on whos program has been updated with recent findings, or whos program is 10 years old
Monte
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Re: The best CNC head porting shop???
[Re: Chris'sBarracuda]
#1689203
11/20/14 05:26 AM
11/20/14 05:26 AM
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 41
Northern MN
cedarmachine
member
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member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 41
Northern MN
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www.cferacing.com. 
Chris.. 
My first call for CNC work too. They have a great B1 program. Developed through the old Koffels pro stock R&D. Still works great today.
I've always had great results with Carl. As mentioned though, we have most heads hand ported. I use Advanced Performance for anything that doesn't get done in-house. These days, that's almost none.
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Re: The best CNC head porting shop???
[Re: cedarmachine]
#1689204
11/20/14 09:08 AM
11/20/14 09:08 AM
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
1320Dart
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 503
Idaho
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I didn't see anything on their site about B-1 stuff. That must be something you have to call about? 
Greg ----------------------------------------------------------------- Cost is irrelevant, making memories is far more valuable!
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