The best CNC head porting shop???

Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/22/14 10:37 PM

Quote:

What shop has it figured out and is the best at CNC porting heads?
Is it a different shop for BB heads than it is for SB heads?

Depends on exactly what head. I don't know of a shop that has programs for every available BB and SB head. Modern Cylinder Head here in Michigan is a good source for a variety of heads.

So then what shop is the best at what head configuration?

Posted By: Sammy

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/22/14 11:20 PM

Modern Cylinder Head gets my business.

Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/22/14 11:28 PM

Brett Miller for any small block w series head.

Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/22/14 11:33 PM

Quote:

Modern Cylinder Head gets my business.

What type of heads do you have them do?

Posted By: 70 vcodecuda

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/22/14 11:47 PM

modern did my stealth heads great service and awesome work

Posted By: cudatom

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 12:12 AM

Modern Cylinder Head did my Indy SR's

Posted By: BPE

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 12:32 AM

Quote:

Brett Miller for any small block w series head.

Rod

Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 12:33 AM

Who does Al Alguire's and Monte Smith's cylinder heads?

Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 12:36 AM

I know a few people around here use Fastlane Machine

Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 12:55 AM

Quote:

Who does Al Alguire's and Monte Smith's cylinder heads?

I believe Monte uses Charlie Buck.

Posted By: AndyF

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 01:13 AM

I doubt that anyone knows the answer to that question since it would take a bunch of money and even more time to figure out.

Guys like Dwayne Porter see a lot of heads from different shops so he could probably tell you which heads to buy and which to avoid.

I also think there is a lot of specialization between the shops. Chapman was the place for the Stage VI heads but who knows how good their Indy program was. Maybe Best Machine has the best program for B1 heads but they might not have the best W8 or 5.7 program.

Bottom line is that nobody has enough money in this business to be the best at every single flavor of Mopar head.

Posted By: 496 A-body

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 01:14 AM

Quote:

Brett Miller for any small block w series head.

Does that include W2s?

Posted By: Hemi Allstate

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 01:17 AM

Modern Cylinder for my Stage V Hemi heads.

Mark

Posted By: AndyF

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 01:25 AM

FHO has a pretty good Hemi program.

Posted By: AndyF

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 01:27 AM

Quote:

I know a few people around here use Fastlane Machine

Fastlane is a couple of guys who used to work at Chapman. I believe they have the Chapman programs so if anyone wants some Stage VI heads done right that is the place to go.

I've had Fastlane do repair work on aluminum heads. They do super nice work and they charge a very fair price. I think they are the place to go for guys in the NW.

Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 01:55 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Brett Miller for any small block w series head.

Does that include W2s?

Yes very good with w2s. Just but a guy in the winners circle at Bedford this year with some w2s.

Posted By: Anonymous

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 02:16 AM

Quote:

FHO has a pretty good Hemi program.

They did my stage V big valve hemi heads.

Posted By: HEMIDARTS

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 02:23 AM

Modern Cylinder is still great!!

Posted By: Stroker Scamp

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 02:39 AM

Modern did my SB CNC'd Eddy's

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 08:14 AM

I don't use CNC ported heads. All my stuff has been hand ported. I have a couple people I use.

Well the Predator was CNC'ed originally as that is how they came. But they have been worked over by hand and picked up a bit. Actually I guess the new car has CNC ported stuff too from Muscle Motors, 440-1's to be exact but they came with the dragster.

Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 12:06 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I know a few people around here use Fastlane Machine

Fastlane is a couple of guys who used to work at Chapman. I believe they have the Chapman programs so if anyone wants some Stage VI heads done right that is the place to go.

I've had Fastlane do repair work on aluminum heads. They do super nice work and they charge a very fair price. I think they are the place to go for guys in the NW.

Thank you AndyF
Yeah there isn't much here in the NW. Everything seems to be back east.
I have heard Tom Hemphill is very good too. But I don't think he CNC ports heads.

Posted By: Chris'sBarracuda

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 01:30 PM

www.cferacing.com.

Chris..

Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 01:47 PM

Quote:

www.cferacing.com.

Chris..

Bring $$$$$$$ and the bring some extra $$$$$$ and when there done take them some more $$$$$$$ lol

Slawko is very good also, just ask guppy!

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 02:39 PM

For a hemi I used Modern Cylinder Head (they cnc'd mine). FHO does really good work too. Barton does good work, but I'm not sure if they CNC them or not.

My Indy wedge heads I sent to Dwayne Porter. He does them by hand and does great work.

I know Modern also CNC's pretty much any wedge head too and I've always heard good things about the results.

Still don't understand why some people just have to have their heads done on a CNC machine. A GOOD head porter that does them by hand is just as good. The CNC program used is no better than the hand ported head that was digitized to make it anyway.

Posted By: d7cook

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 02:43 PM

So far I've had Modern do Buick Edelbrock Performers, Mopar Performers and Victors and I've been pleased. They just did a set of Stage V hemi heads but I don't have them yet.

Anymore I could not image going the hand porting route ever again. They go straight from the box to the porter.

Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 04:05 PM

Quote:

For a hemi I used Modern Cylinder Head (they cnc'd mine). FHO does really good work too. Barton does good work, but I'm not sure if they CNC them or not.

My Indy wedge heads I sent to Dwayne Porter. He does them by hand and does great work.

I know Modern also CNC's pretty much any wedge head too and I've always heard good things about the results.

Still don't understand why some people just have to have their heads done on a CNC machine. A GOOD head porter that does them by hand is just as good. The CNC program used is no better than the hand ported head that was digitized to make it anyway.

I'm a machinist and programmer for over 20 years now( aerospace and medical/ not engine ).
The positional accuracy and repeat-ability from a CNC is EXTREMELY hard to beat. I can see someone going in after the CNC and doing some minor touch ups only.

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 04:22 PM

Quote:

Quote:

For a hemi I used Modern Cylinder Head (they cnc'd mine). FHO does really good work too. Barton does good work, but I'm not sure if they CNC them or not.

My Indy wedge heads I sent to Dwayne Porter. He does them by hand and does great work.

I know Modern also CNC's pretty much any wedge head too and I've always heard good things about the results.

Still don't understand why some people just have to have their heads done on a CNC machine. A GOOD head porter that does them by hand is just as good. The CNC program used is no better than the hand ported head that was digitized to make it anyway.

I'm a machinist and programmer for over 20 years now( aerospace and medical/ not engine ).
The positional accuracy and repeat-ability from a CNC is EXTREMELY hard to beat. I can see someone going in after the CNC and doing some minor touch ups only.

That's true, but a good hand porter will make sure every port is as close as possible. Having heads CNC'd is cheaper sometimes, depending on who you go to, that's the only real plus to me.
My point is about the people who immediately cross a porting business off their list to potentially do business with simply b/c they don't CNC them.

Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 04:56 PM

(My point is about the people who immediately cross a porting business off their list to potentially do business with simply b/c they don't CNC them.)

I see your point

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 06:39 PM

IMO a god head porter can get the most out of any individual head IMO. As pointed out where do you think the original port design for the CNC was digitized from?? CNC work is fine for mass produced stuff. But ask how many with CNC'ed Indy or b1 stuff have epoxy in them due to core differentiations? One size fits all is rarely what I am looking for in life, just saying.

Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 06:45 PM

Don't get me wrong here. I'm not trying to take anything away from the guys that port heads by hand. That's true art and patients.
I feel that we need to be using technology to our advantage. Stop being afraid of it. Technology helps make power. I feel there is a lot of power to be found yet.

Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 06:49 PM

Quote:

IMO a god head porter can get the most out of any individual head IMO. As pointed out where do you think the original port design for the CNC was digitized from?? CNC work is fine for mass produced stuff. But ask how many with CNC'ed Indy or b1 stuff have epoxy in them due to core differentiations? One size fits all is rarely what I am looking for in life, just saying.

True. But with the designing and CAD software's out there, custom CNC porting per an individual head is certainly doable.

Posted By: Al_Alguire

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 06:52 PM

Unfortunately castings are not all created the same. As I say CNC work is great on a large scale. Makes those cookie cutter crate motors a breeze for repeatability. I agree at the very least have the heads worked over by a true professional after the CNC work. My Predators are a good example. OK from CNC work better after a Pro got ahold of them.

Posted By: 496 A-body

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 06:57 PM

Quote:

Quote:

IMO a god head porter can get the most out of any individual head IMO. As pointed out where do you think the original port design for the CNC was digitized from?? CNC work is fine for mass produced stuff. But ask how many with CNC'ed Indy or b1 stuff have epoxy in them due to core differentiations? One size fits all is rarely what I am looking for in life, just saying.

True. But with the designing and CAD software's out there, custom CNC porting per an individual head is certainly doable.

The guy I use does hand porting and also does aluminum head repair. Last time I went there he had CNC'd B1s to repair, core shift was bad enough that that the CNC program broke through in a spot. Wouldn't have happened if a competent hand porter did the port work.

Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 07:23 PM

I've heard several times of the guys that port by hand breaking thru as well.

The guys that CNC port heads should have equipment at their facility that can sonic check or x-ray heads prior to machining as an extra precaution.

Posted By: BradH

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 08:02 PM

Quote:

I've heard several times of the guys that port by hand breaking thru as well.

The guys that CNC port heads should have equipment at their facility that can sonic check or x-ray heads prior to machining as an extra precaution.

Based on some spots where the rocker shaft hold-down bolt threads are showing through on my CNC-ported heads, I'd say don't bet on it.

Sh!t happens, either when grinding by hand or w/ a CNC program on a casting w/ more core shift than anticipated.

Don't forget that just because a port design is available in CNC doesn't mean it's a GOOD port design, only a more easily repeatable one.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 08:04 PM

Most CNC programs don't evolve as quickly as port designs do. Meaning that "trick" CNC porting job you get, may be a 5 year old program...................BUT, there is nothing wrong with that. I still buy CNC ported heads and then send them to "my guy" to fix them. The added cost of the CNC porting is usually less than having bare castings done completely by hand.

Monte

Posted By: dannysbee

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 08:18 PM

Cnc heads are only as good as the set of hand ported heads that are digitized for the programming of the cnc machine.

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 08:22 PM

Hand porting and porters is becoming a "lost art". CNC programers copy and use a hand ported head as a blueprint good or bad. I reworked a set of AFR cnc'd chevy heads that weren't worth crap and WAY off their advertized flow numbers. Hand porting is NOT easy work.

Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 08:23 PM

Quote:

Most CNC programs don't evolve as quickly as port designs do. Meaning that "trick" CNC porting job you get, may be a 5 year old program...................BUT, there is nothing wrong with that. I still buy CNC ported heads and then send them to "my guy" to fix them. The added cost of the CNC porting is usually less than having bare castings done completely by hand.

Monte

I love my job. I love technology period. In our "racing life" we don't use it to its potential IMO.
That's why I started this post was to find out who is leading the way on the CNC side of things.

Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 09:32 PM

Quote:

Hand porting and porters is becoming a "lost art". CNC programers copy and use a hand ported head as a blueprint good or bad. I reworked a set of AFR cnc'd chevy heads that weren't worth crap and WAY off their advertized flow numbers. Hand porting is NOT easy work.

yes you can start with ports on a head that have been digitized. Then use that digitized model as your "blueprint".
A good machinist/programmer

will go in and alter that model to make it better. Then keeps changing it as the data comes in and logs the data to what works and doesn't to better the head.

Posted By: Sammy

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 09:42 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Modern Cylinder Head gets my business.

What type of heads do you have them do?

My W8 small block heads.

Posted By: Sammy

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 09:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

FHO has a pretty good Hemi program.

They did my stage V big valve hemi heads.

I bet you paid over $2500.00 to get those heads ported from FHO?
Compare that to Modern Cylinder Head.

Posted By: 496 A-body

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 10:01 PM

Quote:

yes you can start with ports on a head that have been digitized. Then use that digitized model as your "blueprint".
A good machinist/programmer will go in and alter that model to make it better. Then keeps changing it as the data comes in and logs the data to what works and doesn't to better the head.

My exposure to digitized/3D scanned parts begins as a point cloud file that is then converted to surfaces. My life would be much easier if I had CNC machinists that were skilled enough to modify surface data. Guys like you are few and far between.

Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 10:18 PM

Quote:

Quote:

yes you can start with ports on a head that have been digitized. Then use that digitized model as your "blueprint".
A good machinist/programmer will go in and alter that model to make it better. Then keeps changing it as the data comes in and logs the data to what works and doesn't to better the head.

My exposure to digitized/3D scanned parts begins as a point cloud file that is then converted to surfaces. My life would be much easier if I had CNC machinists that were skilled enough to modify surface data. Guys like you are few and far between.

I just assumed that any shop that was CNC porting heads knew how to do all this stuff. Then the shops that weren't making the necessary adjustments to better their product, were in it for the quantity not the quality.
That's another reason I started this post. I wanted to be able to weed those shops out from my selection.

Posted By: pittsburghracer

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 10:21 PM

I don't care how good of a programer you may or may not be nothing replaces flow bench and track testing.

Posted By: tboomer

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 10:31 PM

I am quite happy with my Victors that were done by Roger(Radar)Lechtenberg. He did mine by hand. His flow bench is pretty tight. He learned the trade from Gary Ostrich. He has been going ever since. I have seen him and a John Deere engineer carve a cylinder head from a block of aluminum. Do a google search on him. He was also in on the design of a BB mopar head. Never saw a dime from that.

Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 10:48 PM

Quote:

I don't care how good of a programer you may or may not be nothing replaces flow bench and track testing.

totally

But with the proper feedback and the right machinist and or programmer it would be darn close right off the machine.

Posted By: BradH

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 11:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I don't care how good of a programer you may or may not be nothing replaces flow bench and track testing.

totally

But with the proper feedback and the right machinist and or programmer it would be darn close right off the machine.

We get it: you REALLY like CNC porting.

You don't seem to get it: CNC ain't sh!t if the original hand-carved port isn't right.

It's funny to hear over on SpeedTalk how the guys that do port development go to PRI, etc., and see all these pretty CNC-ported heads that have crappy port & chamber designs... but they LOOK good!

Posted By: 496 A-body

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 11:20 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I don't care how good of a programer you may or may not be nothing replaces flow bench and track testing.

totally

But with the proper feedback and the right machinist and or programmer it would be darn close right off the machine.

Are you using a CAD or CAM software for surface modification? If CAM which one? Just curious how you do surfaces with the majority of them (especially a port) being not true geometry.
As far as most CNC porting shops, the way I understand it is they take one hand ported intake and exhaust port (could be great, could be crap)have it scanned and then pattern and mirror it for the head. Doubt they have a CAD user who can manipulate the model to counteract core shift. Maybe Modern can chime in on this.

Posted By: d7cook

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 11:21 PM

IMHO You have to pick what's right for you. There's no one size fits all.

Use the heads out of the box which many do.

Have a guy spend a few hours on the as cast ports. Usually good gains to be had there.

CNC port at a reputable shop. Good value really since the guides, deck, chambers valve job and ports are all done at the same time. That $1000 for a CNC port job is really $1000 for head to have everything corrected plus ported.

CNC port and hand finish if you're going all out.

My experience with the 4 sets of CNC heads I've had done so far is that they push the limits of the casting and fix where the limit was exceeded. My Buick heads had tubes in half the push rod holes because they broke through. My edelbrock heads went into the rocker studs. I was talking to the guy who did my Buick engines last weekend and he ceramic seals every set of heads he has CNC'd. Insurance against leaks knowing the casting limits are getting pushed.

Posted By: AndyF

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/23/14 11:40 PM

That is why my answer back on page 1 was to talk to Dwayne. He gets a lot of heads in his shop and probably has seen most everything. If anyone would know which CNC programs are working he would.

Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/24/14 12:02 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I don't care how good of a programer you may or may not be nothing replaces flow bench and track testing.

totally

But with the proper feedback and the right machinist and or programmer it would be darn close right off the machine.

Are you using a CAD or CAM software for surface modification? If CAM which one? Just curious how you do surfaces with the majority of them (especially a port) being not true geometry.
As far as most CNC porting shops, the way I understand it is they take one hand ported intake and exhaust port (could be great, could be crap)have it scanned and then pattern and mirror it for the head. Doubt they have a CAD user who can manipulate the model to counteract core shift. Maybe Modern can chime in on this.

I personally own and use my software's at the place I work at. They are SolidWorks and CamWorks. I feel they are great softwares together. FWIW, CP Pistons also uses CamWorks for their stuff too.
But also to counteract core shift, you need to know if it is shifted in the first place and how much and which way. If you're going full out on the porting, the head needs to be sonic checked or x-rayed first. Not just bolt the head down and push the cycle start button. IMO.
Yes, you do need to be able to counteract core shift by manipulating the solid model a bit. Also just MO.
But according to other people on this post, button pusher CNC guys like myself, aren't smart enough to fix a bad flowing port. Only a guy with a fast spinning piece of sandpaper on the end of a stick is. That's other peoples opinion

Posted By: BradH

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/24/14 12:16 AM

Quote:

... But according to other people on this post, button pusher CNC guys like myself, aren't smart enough to fix a bad flowing port. Only a guy with a fast spinning piece of sandpaper on the end of a stick is. That's other peoples opinion

If you have a flow bench, the proper tools to map the velocity changes that go along with subtle changes to the port, the knowledge of how & where to change the port to address deficiencies in the velocity profile & flow patterns AND the ability to translate those changes to the code to revise the tool path w/o having to physically change the original port and re-digitize it, then you're good to go!

I'll have to ask Chad Speier and Curtis Boggs how they like being referred to as "a guy with a fast spinning piece of sandpaper on the end of a stick".

Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/24/14 12:41 AM

Quote:

Quote:

... But according to other people on this post, button pusher CNC guys like myself, aren't smart enough to fix a bad flowing port. Only a guy with a fast spinning piece of sandpaper on the end of a stick is. That's other peoples opinion

If you have a flow bench, the proper tools to map the velocity changes that go along with subtle changes to the port, the knowledge of how & where to change the port to address deficiencies in the velocity profile & flow patterns AND the ability to translate those changes to the code to revise the tool path w/o having to physically change the original port and re-digitize it, then you're good to go!

I'll have to ask Chad Speier and Curtis Boggs how they like being referred to as "a guy with a fast spinning piece of sandpaper on the end of a stick".

That's why I stated earlier about getting proper feedback and tracking data. That all goes under the proper tools. A good programmer just doesn't go in and change a program just to change it. They need feedback and justification and they jump right on it. You and I are saying the same things I feel. Just seeing it differently I guess.

Posted By: 1967dartgt

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/24/14 02:05 AM

So would you replace my heads when the change you made didn't work? Or fix them? I pay for a cnc port because it is proven on the flow bench. And if it isn't hand touched up you have a bad head guy.

Posted By: hemi-itis

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/24/14 03:18 AM

Did Shady Dell ever get a cnc machine??

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/24/14 06:51 AM

CNC ported heads are still the way to go, because it saves SO MUCH hand work. Most Pro-Stock engine builders order CNC ported castings from CFE by the pallet and then put THEIR touches on it. I have a friend who does Pro-Stock heads and he said he may have 8 hrs in a set of ready to go PS heads now, where he used to spend a week when he started with as cast stuff.

But as stated before, CNC heads should still he touched up by hand for best performance. As an example, I just bought a brand new set of 14* CNC ported Big Chiefs from one of the most well known head shops out there. And even though port and chamber designs have come a long way in the past few years, these heads were identical to the 14* heads I bought from the same company about 6 years ago. That's what I meant about a LOT of companies don't update their programs on a regular basis.

Monte

Posted By: GTS340

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/24/14 11:52 AM

Anyone ever use this place? Wondering how their program is for max wedged BB RPM heads.

http://www.rmcompetition.com/cylinder-heads-.html

Posted By: an8sec70cuda

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/24/14 02:02 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

I don't care how good of a programer you may or may not be nothing replaces flow bench and track testing.

totally

But with the proper feedback and the right machinist and or programmer it would be darn close right off the machine.

We get it: you REALLY like CNC porting.

You don't seem to get it: CNC aint sh!t if the original hand-carved port isn't right.

It's funny to hear over on SpeedTalk how the guys that do port development go to PRI, etc., and see all these pretty CNC-ported heads that have crappy port & chamber designs... but they LOOK good!

Posted By: RAMM

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/24/14 02:16 PM

Quote:

Anyone ever use this place? Wondering how their program is for max wedged BB RPM heads.

http://www.rmcompetition.com/cylinder-heads-.html

Pretty sure Randy uses Modern. J.Rob

Posted By: GTS340

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/24/14 02:30 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Anyone ever use this place? Wondering how their program is for max wedged BB RPM heads.

http://www.rmcompetition.com/cylinder-heads-.html

Pretty sure Randy uses Modern. J.Rob

The website says they developed ports for...so is Moderns program based on a port RM developed?

Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/24/14 02:59 PM

Quote:

CNC ported heads are still the way to go, because it saves SO MUCH hand work. Most Pro-Stock engine builders order CNC ported castings from CFE by the pallet and then put THEIR touches on it. I have a friend who does Pro-Stock heads and he said he may have 8 hrs in a set of ready to go PS heads now, where he used to spend a week when he started with as cast stuff.

But as stated before, CNC heads should still he touched up by hand for best performance. As an example, I just bought a brand new set of 14* CNC ported Big Chiefs from one of the most well known head shops out there. And even though port and chamber designs have come a long way in the past few years, these heads were identical to the 14* heads I bought from the same company about 6 years ago. That's what I meant about a LOT of companies don't update their programs on a regular basis.

Monte

Hey Monty if you have Mopar heads CNC'd, who do you use?

Posted By: sc301v

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/24/14 03:08 PM

Ran a set of 325cc 440-1 heads cnc'd for an entire season.. Car ran average of 4.72..Took the heads off last winter and did some hand porting and a little reshaping of the bends and combustion chamber and as of right now the average ET is 4.67..And that was me doing it by myself without a bunch of fancy equipment..Just a die grinder and sandpaper..So i'm sure a shop with a more knowledge can make a cnc'd set much better by hand. Just saves alot of time not starting from scratch.

Posted By: Adrielp

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/24/14 04:17 PM

As stated, CNC is just an efficient tool that can help speed up the process of porting but just like any other tool it can be misused. Same goes for hand porting as well. I think it pretty clear from what is being said that using a combination of both will yield the best results since no two combinations are the same. Neither process should be villainized.

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/24/14 06:27 PM

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CNC ported heads are still the way to go, because it saves SO MUCH hand work. Most Pro-Stock engine builders order CNC ported castings from CFE by the pallet and then put THEIR touches on it. I have a friend who does Pro-Stock heads and he said he may have 8 hrs in a set of ready to go PS heads now, where he used to spend a week when he started with as cast stuff.

But as stated before, CNC heads should still he touched up by hand for best performance. As an example, I just bought a brand new set of 14* CNC ported Big Chiefs from one of the most well known head shops out there. And even though port and chamber designs have come a long way in the past few years, these heads were identical to the 14* heads I bought from the same company about 6 years ago. That's what I meant about a LOT of companies don't update their programs on a regular basis.

Monte

Hey Monty if you have Mopar heads CNC'd, who do you use?

Whoever I buy them from. If I buy INDYs I get the CNC version, if I buy B-1s from Brodix, I get the CNC version. Really doesn't matter, because I know they are going to get worked on more anyway.

Monte

Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/24/14 06:36 PM

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CNC ported heads are still the way to go, because it saves SO MUCH hand work. Most Pro-Stock engine builders order CNC ported castings from CFE by the pallet and then put THEIR touches on it. I have a friend who does Pro-Stock heads and he said he may have 8 hrs in a set of ready to go PS heads now, where he used to spend a week when he started with as cast stuff.

But as stated before, CNC heads should still he touched up by hand for best performance. As an example, I just bought a brand new set of 14* CNC ported Big Chiefs from one of the most well known head shops out there. And even though port and chamber designs have come a long way in the past few years, these heads were identical to the 14* heads I bought from the same company about 6 years ago. That's what I meant about a LOT of companies don't update their programs on a regular basis.

Monte

Hey Monty if you have Mopar heads CNC'd, who do you use?

Whoever I buy them from. If I buy INDYs I get the CNC version, if I buy B-1s from Brodix, I get the CNC version. Really doesn't matter, because I know they are going to get worked on more anyway.

Monte

Who do you feel does a better CNC job on their deal?
Do you get your B-1's direct from Brodix or Koffel's?

Posted By: LA360

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/25/14 04:07 AM

There are definitely some great porters mentioned, but it's all horses for courses. Many custom porters are going with CNC porting now to save time and make their business more profitable. If I was looking at spending my $$$ with a porting shop, I would be looking at what kind of work comes out of there. At the track, those setting records are using whom?
CNC shops like CFE, MBE, Slawko and Curtis Boggs @ RFD

Old school hand porting? Larry Meaux

Brett's heads have been performing really well, I believe he does the port by hand and has Denis @ Air Flow Development machine them for him.

As has been ported out, most CNC stuff is generic, to meet the requirements of many different customers. In most cases, those seeking more will have them modified afterwards.

Depending on the software used and how the port is digitised will dictate how the surface is generated. I know digitizing off the machine generates a series of points at a series of depths. In something like Mastercam, those points are using to generate a curve, and from those curves a surface is lofted. The surface is copied and offset as a means of tool control. Making changes to the shape requires modifying or re-creating the curve/spline and re-creating the surface. In something like Solidworks it would be easier as it is a parametric modelling software, so dimensions of the curves could be easily changed, and the surface would be updated. If you were using a CAM software that was integrated into Solidworks, it would usually update the tool path as well.

Posted By: fishy340

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 10/25/14 06:15 AM

Cnc is just a digitized copy someone's work,it sounds like some think a computer does it all by itself.
Cretain companies have a better program for certain heads.
Mopar don't have a big following so it's harder to find.

Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 11/19/14 09:03 PM

Sounds like a good premise to a "Masters challenge" kind of question, give all the SB gurus a set of w2, tell them to do their magic and stick them on a 408 one after the other and see whos make the most giddy up!

Then we can do a cam challenge where all the top cam guys pick the best cam for a motor and see who can get the most out of a cam recommendation.

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 11/19/14 09:11 PM

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Sounds like a good premise to a "Masters challenge" kind of question, give all the SB gurus a set of w2, tell them to do their magic and stick them on a 408 one after the other and see whos make the most giddy up!

Then we can do a cam challenge where all the top cam guys pick the best cam for a motor and see who can get the most out of a cam recommendation.

Sounds like FUN!

Posted By: HotRodDave

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 11/19/14 09:17 PM

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Sounds like a good premise to a "Masters challenge" kind of question, give all the SB gurus a set of w2, tell them to do their magic and stick them on a 408 one after the other and see whos make the most giddy up!

Then we can do a cam challenge where all the top cam guys pick the best cam for a motor and see who can get the most out of a cam recommendation.

Sounds like FUN!

Happy Birthday! I would like to see your stuff in that test

Posted By: Monte_Smith

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 11/19/14 09:24 PM

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CNC ported heads are still the way to go, because it saves SO MUCH hand work. Most Pro-Stock engine builders order CNC ported castings from CFE by the pallet and then put THEIR touches on it. I have a friend who does Pro-Stock heads and he said he may have 8 hrs in a set of ready to go PS heads now, where he used to spend a week when he started with as cast stuff.

But as stated before, CNC heads should still he touched up by hand for best performance. As an example, I just bought a brand new set of 14* CNC ported Big Chiefs from one of the most well known head shops out there. And even though port and chamber designs have come a long way in the past few years, these heads were identical to the 14* heads I bought from the same company about 6 years ago. That's what I meant about a LOT of companies don't update their programs on a regular basis.

Monte

Hey Monty if you have Mopar heads CNC'd, who do you use?

Whoever I buy them from. If I buy INDYs I get the CNC version, if I buy B-1s from Brodix, I get the CNC version. Really doesn't matter, because I know they are going to get worked on more anyway.

Monte

Who do you feel does a better CNC job on their deal?
Do you get your B-1's direct from Brodix or Koffel's?

A better job?.........I can't answer that, because I don't run either as received on a race motor, plus they are entirely different heads. So not sure "better" is a relative question. Guess it would depend on whos program has been updated with recent findings, or whos program is 10 years old

Monte

Posted By: Brian Hafliger

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 11/20/14 08:56 AM

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Sounds like a good premise to a "Masters challenge" kind of question, give all the SB gurus a set of w2, tell them to do their magic and stick them on a 408 one after the other and see whos make the most giddy up!

Then we can do a cam challenge where all the top cam guys pick the best cam for a motor and see who can get the most out of a cam recommendation.

Sounds like FUN!

Happy Birthday! I would like to see your stuff in that test

I'll put my $hit up against anyone's

Posted By: cedarmachine

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 11/20/14 09:26 AM

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www.cferacing.com.

Chris..

My first call for CNC work too. They have a great B1 program. Developed through the old Koffels pro stock R&D. Still works great today.

I've always had great results with Carl. As mentioned though, we have most heads hand ported. I use Advanced Performance for anything that doesn't get done in-house. These days, that's almost none.

Posted By: 1320Dart

Re: The best CNC head porting shop??? - 11/20/14 01:08 PM

I didn't see anything on their site about B-1 stuff. That must be something you have to call about?

The best CNC head porting shop???