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Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG!
[Re: BradH]
#1666590
09/02/14 02:52 PM
09/02/14 02:52 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
sixpackgut
Drag Week Mod Champion
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Drag Week Mod Champion
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 9,225
Charleston
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Quote:
Not just on here, but other places, too. Folks say they don't worry about using a performance oil with a high zinc level because they think running roller lifters means that doesn't matter.
Well, I noticed something on Jesel's FAQ page that should change that opinion. They say "We recommend soaking the lifters in mineral based oil prior to installation as well as pre-lubing the engine prior to startup. After initial engine break-in, if you are going to use synthetic based oil, we highly recommend oils containing high zinc content formulated for racing applications. Synthetic oils formulated for street use are not recommended due to a lack of zinc content."
Flat tappet cam or not, if you built it to run hard, I think you better run an oil that can handle the wear and tear.
I thought you are rebuilding your engine for the last ten years because you were running no oil 
Gen 3 power 6.22@110, 9.85@135
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performance only racing, CRT, ultimate converter, superior design concepts, ThumperCarbs
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Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG!
[Re: sixpackgut]
#1666591
09/02/14 02:58 PM
09/02/14 02:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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OP
Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
Quote:
Not just on here, but other places, too. Folks say they don't worry about using a performance oil with a high zinc level because they think running roller lifters means that doesn't matter.
Well, I noticed something on Jesel's FAQ page that should change that opinion. They say "We recommend soaking the lifters in mineral based oil prior to installation as well as pre-lubing the engine prior to startup. After initial engine break-in, if you are going to use synthetic based oil, we highly recommend oils containing high zinc content formulated for racing applications. Synthetic oils formulated for street use are not recommended due to a lack of zinc content."
Flat tappet cam or not, if you built it to run hard, I think you better run an oil that can handle the wear and tear.
I thought you are rebuilding your engine for the last ten years because you were running no oil
First, I think it's only been six, not ten, years.
Second, since I haven't actually touched it in 8 months, I think I can adjust that value down some, too.
Third, I was running good oil when I hurt the engine, but too little of even the good stuff doesn't offset stupidy and the laws of thermal dynamics.
Such is life...
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Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG!
[Re: BradH]
#1666592
09/02/14 04:00 PM
09/02/14 04:00 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Not just on here, but other places, too. Folks say they don't worry about using a performance oil with a high zinc level because they think running roller lifters means that doesn't matter.
Well, I noticed something on Jesel's FAQ page that should change that opinion. They say "We recommend soaking the lifters in mineral based oil prior to installation as well as pre-lubing the engine prior to startup. After initial engine break-in, if you are going to use synthetic based oil, we highly recommend oils containing high zinc content formulated for racing applications. Synthetic oils formulated for street use are not recommended due to a lack of zinc content."
Flat tappet cam or not, if you built it to run hard, I think you better run an oil that can handle the wear and tear.
Notice the MAGIC word..Synthetic... the old dino
do-do still has some zinc just not a ton like the
PRE cat days... I dont add any zinc to any of my
rollers and run way more pressure than a lot of guys
and never have had a failure
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Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG!
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1666593
09/02/14 04:39 PM
09/02/14 04:39 PM
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 733
jacksonville,FLORIDA
slammedR/T
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 733
jacksonville,FLORIDA
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Rotella T is still a high zinc and phosphorus oil and the Mobil 1 synthetic 20-50 is a high zinc and phosphorus oil also. It says this right on the back of the Mobil 1 bottle and also explains any of their racing oils will have the twin checkered flag symbol letting you know this.
2000 Dakota R/T, 408 magnum, 727, Indy heads 1000cfm 4150 carb, 93 octane fuel. motor; 10.258 @ 132.78 200 shot; 9.262 @ 144.69 racemagnum
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Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG!
[Re: slammedR/T]
#1666594
09/02/14 04:47 PM
09/02/14 04:47 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Rotella T is still a high zinc and phosphorus oil and the Mobil 1 synthetic 20-50 is a high zinc and phosphorus oil also. It says this right on the back of the Mobil 1 bottle and also explains any of their racing oils will have the twin checkered flag symbol letting you know this.
I should have said Synthetic street oil... cats dont
like zinc so thats why it was highly reduced(not
eliminated).... all because of cats and emissions
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Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG!
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1666595
09/02/14 05:47 PM
09/02/14 05:47 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 411
Big Island ,VA
JC Childress
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 411
Big Island ,VA
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I'm pretty sure that Rotella has taken the ZDDP out of their oil also. We build a ton of flat tappet engines and spend a lot of time researching oil and doing what we can to make engines live.
J.C. Childress
(434) 665-9541
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Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG!
[Re: JC Childress]
#1666597
09/02/14 06:27 PM
09/02/14 06:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,991
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,991
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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I hear there are additives that work as well or better than zinc. Also that adding zinc to a properly formulated oil can actually hurt the level of protection you would get without it. I hope Leigh chimes in, his engine builder takes care of a lot of circle track racers, and had tried many oils and found one they like that works a lot better than the "known" good oils.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG!
[Re: dynamite]
#1666598
09/02/14 06:34 PM
09/02/14 06:34 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
OK so what oil should a roller motor,street/track car use /?????????
My first couple of questions to the OP would be..
is this a street engine, next would be.. what rpm do
you idle at and third would would be.. are you running
the edm hole in the bottom of the lifter to feed the roller
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Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG!
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1666599
09/02/14 06:45 PM
09/02/14 06:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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OP
Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
Quote:
OK so what oil should a roller motor,street/track car use /?????????
My first couple of questions to the OP would be..
is this a street engine, next would be.. what rpm do
you idle at and third would would be.. are you running
the edm hole in the bottom of the lifter to feed the roller
- Street driven, mostly to & from the tracks
- 1200 rpm idle, but I don't let it sit there for extended periods of time just waiting for the traffic light to turn green
- rollers have pressure-fed bearing feature
Oils worth considering IMO (but don't blame me if you don't like the price) are JGR "Hot Rod", Amsoil Z-Rod, Brad Penn's "racing" oil, and I'm sure there are others that are capable.
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Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG!
[Re: BradH]
#1666601
09/02/14 06:56 PM
09/02/14 06:56 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
OK so what oil should a roller motor,street/track car use /?????????
My first couple of questions to the OP would be..
is this a street engine, next would be.. what rpm do
you idle at and third would would be.. are you running
the edm hole in the bottom of the lifter to feed the roller
- Street driven, mostly to & from the tracks
- 1200 rpm idle, but I don't let it sit there for extended periods of time just waiting for the traffic light to turn green
- rollers have pressure-fed bearing feature
Oils worth considering IMO (but don't blame me if you don't like the price) are JGR "Hot Rod", Amsoil Z-Rod, Brad Penn's "racing" oil, and I'm sure there are others that are capable.
When I first started running my W-9 engine I was
running synthetic race oil with added zinc but when
I changed to E-85 I switched to dyno do-do mainly
due to I didnt know how much moisture would end up
in the oil... since then I never switched back without
any issues... my previous roller engines always used
dyno do-do and again.. never a failure.. thats 19
years with rollers
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Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG!
[Re: jcc]
#1666603
09/02/14 07:04 PM
09/02/14 07:04 PM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 610
long time lurker, short time p...
PorkyPig
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 610
long time lurker, short time p...
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Quote:
I know this is a racing forum, and Hyd rollers are not normally found in racing apps, but does a HYD roller get a free pass on the zinc issue? I mean OEM's are making rollers live/work?
I'd think that's an "It depends" kind of thing. OEMs run hyd rollers on pretty mild cams that have to meet certain service life requirements for a production vehicle. But once somebody swaps out that mild sh!t for something aggressive, then what happens if you still use a modern low zinc street oil?
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Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG!
[Re: tboomer]
#1666604
09/02/14 07:13 PM
09/02/14 07:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
OP
Taking time off to work on my car
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OP
Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
Welcome back Brad!
Brad's gone... I killed that a$$hole for taking too long to get his junk back together. - Lars Peart (a.k.a. Drummer 1-3/4)
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