Moparts

"Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG!

Posted By: BradH

"Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/02/14 06:29 PM

Not just on here, but other places, too. Folks say they don't worry about using a performance oil with a high zinc level because they think running roller lifters means that doesn't matter.

Well, I noticed something on Jesel's FAQ page that should change that opinion. They say "We recommend soaking the lifters in mineral based oil prior to installation as well as pre-lubing the engine prior to startup. After initial engine break-in, if you are going to use synthetic based oil, we highly recommend oils containing high zinc content formulated for racing applications. Synthetic oils formulated for street use are not recommended due to a lack of zinc content."

Flat tappet cam or not, if you built it to run hard, I think you better run an oil that can handle the wear and tear.
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/02/14 06:43 PM

I have been preaching this for years. Flat tappets are not the only high pressure area to worry about. Wrist pins and any valve train component needs a high quality lube.
Keith
Posted By: sixpackgut

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/02/14 06:52 PM

Quote:

Not just on here, but other places, too. Folks say they don't worry about using a performance oil with a high zinc level because they think running roller lifters means that doesn't matter.

Well, I noticed something on Jesel's FAQ page that should change that opinion. They say "We recommend soaking the lifters in mineral based oil prior to installation as well as pre-lubing the engine prior to startup. After initial engine break-in, if you are going to use synthetic based oil, we highly recommend oils containing high zinc content formulated for racing applications. Synthetic oils formulated for street use are not recommended due to a lack of zinc content."

Flat tappet cam or not, if you built it to run hard, I think you better run an oil that can handle the wear and tear.



I thought you are rebuilding your engine for the last ten years because you were running no oil
Posted By: BradH

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/02/14 06:58 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Not just on here, but other places, too. Folks say they don't worry about using a performance oil with a high zinc level because they think running roller lifters means that doesn't matter.

Well, I noticed something on Jesel's FAQ page that should change that opinion. They say "We recommend soaking the lifters in mineral based oil prior to installation as well as pre-lubing the engine prior to startup. After initial engine break-in, if you are going to use synthetic based oil, we highly recommend oils containing high zinc content formulated for racing applications. Synthetic oils formulated for street use are not recommended due to a lack of zinc content."

Flat tappet cam or not, if you built it to run hard, I think you better run an oil that can handle the wear and tear.



I thought you are rebuilding your engine for the last ten years because you were running no oil


First, I think it's only been six, not ten, years.

Second, since I haven't actually touched it in 8 months, I think I can adjust that value down some, too.

Third, I was running good oil when I hurt the engine, but too little of even the good stuff doesn't offset stupidy and the laws of thermal dynamics.

Such is life...
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/02/14 08:00 PM

Quote:

Not just on here, but other places, too. Folks say they don't worry about using a performance oil with a high zinc level because they think running roller lifters means that doesn't matter.

Well, I noticed something on Jesel's FAQ page that should change that opinion. They say "We recommend soaking the lifters in mineral based oil prior to installation as well as pre-lubing the engine prior to startup. After initial engine break-in, if you are going to use synthetic based oil, we highly recommend oils containing high zinc content formulated for racing applications. Synthetic oils formulated for street use are not recommended due to a lack of zinc content."

Flat tappet cam or not, if you built it to run hard, I think you better run an oil that can handle the wear and tear.



Notice the MAGIC word..Synthetic... the old dino
do-do still has some zinc just not a ton like the
PRE cat days... I dont add any zinc to any of my
rollers and run way more pressure than a lot of guys
and never have had a failure
Posted By: slammedR/T

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/02/14 08:39 PM

Rotella T is still a high zinc and phosphorus oil and the Mobil 1 synthetic 20-50 is a high zinc and phosphorus oil also. It says this right on the back of the Mobil 1 bottle and also explains any of their racing oils will have the twin checkered flag symbol letting you know this.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/02/14 08:47 PM

Quote:

Rotella T is still a high zinc and phosphorus oil and the Mobil 1 synthetic 20-50 is a high zinc and phosphorus oil also. It says this right on the back of the Mobil 1 bottle and also explains any of their racing oils will have the twin checkered flag symbol letting you know this.



I should have said Synthetic street oil... cats dont
like zinc so thats why it was highly reduced(not
eliminated).... all because of cats and emissions
Posted By: JC Childress

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/02/14 09:47 PM

I'm pretty sure that Rotella has taken the ZDDP out of their oil also. We build a ton of flat tappet engines and spend a lot of time researching oil and doing what we can to make engines live.
Posted By: dynamite

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/02/14 09:55 PM

OK so what oil should a roller motor,street/track car use /?????????
Posted By: gregsdart

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/02/14 10:27 PM

I hear there are additives that work as well or better than zinc. Also that adding zinc to a properly formulated oil can actually hurt the level of protection you would get without it. I hope Leigh chimes in, his engine builder takes care of a lot of circle track racers, and had tried many oils and found one they like that works a lot better than the "known" good oils.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/02/14 10:34 PM

Quote:

OK so what oil should a roller motor,street/track car use /?????????



My first couple of questions to the OP would be..
is this a street engine, next would be.. what rpm do
you idle at and third would would be.. are you running
the edm hole in the bottom of the lifter to feed the roller
Posted By: BradH

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/02/14 10:45 PM

Quote:

Quote:

OK so what oil should a roller motor,street/track car use /?????????



My first couple of questions to the OP would be..
is this a street engine, next would be.. what rpm do
you idle at and third would would be.. are you running
the edm hole in the bottom of the lifter to feed the roller



- Street driven, mostly to & from the tracks
- 1200 rpm idle, but I don't let it sit there for extended periods of time just waiting for the traffic light to turn green
- rollers have pressure-fed bearing feature

Oils worth considering IMO (but don't blame me if you don't like the price) are JGR "Hot Rod", Amsoil Z-Rod, Brad Penn's "racing" oil, and I'm sure there are others that are capable.
Posted By: jcc

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/02/14 10:52 PM

I know this is a racing forum, and Hyd rollers are not normally found in racing apps, but does a HYD roller get a free pass on the zinc issue? I mean OEM's are making rollers live/work?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/02/14 10:56 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

OK so what oil should a roller motor,street/track car use /?????????



My first couple of questions to the OP would be..
is this a street engine, next would be.. what rpm do
you idle at and third would would be.. are you running
the edm hole in the bottom of the lifter to feed the roller



- Street driven, mostly to & from the tracks
- 1200 rpm idle, but I don't let it sit there for extended periods of time just waiting for the traffic light to turn green
- rollers have pressure-fed bearing feature

Oils worth considering IMO (but don't blame me if you don't like the price) are JGR "Hot Rod", Amsoil Z-Rod, Brad Penn's "racing" oil, and I'm sure there are others that are capable.



When I first started running my W-9 engine I was
running synthetic race oil with added zinc but when
I changed to E-85 I switched to dyno do-do mainly
due to I didnt know how much moisture would end up
in the oil... since then I never switched back without
any issues... my previous roller engines always used
dyno do-do and again.. never a failure.. thats 19
years with rollers
Posted By: tboomer

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/02/14 11:02 PM

Welcome back Brad!
Posted By: PorkyPig

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/02/14 11:04 PM

Quote:

I know this is a racing forum, and Hyd rollers are not normally found in racing apps, but does a HYD roller get a free pass on the zinc issue? I mean OEM's are making rollers live/work?


I'd think that's an "It depends" kind of thing. OEMs run hyd rollers on pretty mild cams that have to meet certain service life requirements for a production vehicle. But once somebody swaps out that mild sh!t for something aggressive, then what happens if you still use a modern low zinc street oil?
Posted By: BradH

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/02/14 11:13 PM

Quote:

Welcome back Brad!


Brad's gone... I killed that a$$hole for taking too long to get his junk back together. - Lars Peart (a.k.a. Drummer 1-3/4)
Posted By: tboomer

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/02/14 11:24 PM

What ever...
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/02/14 11:40 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Welcome back Brad!


Brad's gone... I killed that a$$hole for taking too long to get his junk back together. - Lars Peart (a.k.a. Drummer 1-3/4)




Guess I`m not the only drummer who`s "Bumped his head".........
Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/03/14 01:55 AM

If it does not say Off Road Race oil only its not good enough for a High $$$ race engine.This is not a smart remark just common sense question.Why would you put Thousands of $$$ in a race or all out street engine and then put cheap oil in it to save a few $$$?
Posted By: jamesc

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/04/14 12:55 AM

trust me this is not a smart remark either but you don't know as much about oil as you think.

another thing to consider is that VERY, VERY few engine problems can be attributed to oil. more often than not it's oil delivery problems and/or improper assembly craftsmanship.

last i researched shell still had a decent amount of ZDDP in it.

oil quality would be low on my list of factors when diagnosing a failure
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/04/14 02:31 AM

Quote:

trust me this is not a smart remark either but you don't know as much about oil as you think.

another thing to consider is that VERY, VERY few engine problems can be attributed to oil. more often than not it's oil delivery problems and/or improper assembly craftsmanship.

last i researched shell still had a decent amount of ZDDP in it.

oil quality would be low on my list of factors when diagnosing a failure

just something else to blame a failure on. the cheapest modern day no name oil on the market will get the job done.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/04/14 02:39 AM

If it has a SAE standard to it... no problem and all
the stuff I buy does have the SAE standard on it
Posted By: BradH

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/04/14 04:39 AM

Quote:

the cheapest modern day no name oil on the market will get the job done.


Only as long as the engine is designed around the oil.

Chevy put ti rods and ultra light pistons in their modern LS7 small block because the Mobil 1 5w30 they "swear by" as their factory fill oil couldn't maintain adequate film strength in durability testing with more normal weight parts... and that's only a 500 HP (SAE net) hydraulic roller street engine.

And how quickly people seem to forget all the flat-tappet cam failures attributed to the major reduction in zinc, etc., due to the EPA mandating the reduction to save the cat converters.
Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/04/14 04:59 AM

Quote:

Quote:

the cheapest modern day no name oil on the market will get the job done.


Only as long as the engine is designed around the oil.

Chevy put ti rods and ultra light pistons in their modern LS7 small block because the Mobil 1 5w30 they "swear by" as their factory fill oil couldn't maintain adequate film strength in durability testing with more normal weight parts... and that's only a 500 HP (SAE net) hydraulic roller street engine.

And how quickly people seem to forget all the flat-tappet cam failures attributed to the major reduction in zinc, etc., due to the EPA mandating the reduction to save the cat converters.



Well I had 2 1996 vetts both 6sp with the LT4 one with minor upgrades and the other one was pushing 490hp with heavy ol steel rods and regular ol pistons and I beat the he!! out of both of them for years and the Mobil 1 did just fine.
Posted By: BradH

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/04/14 05:21 AM

Quote:

Well I had 2 1996 vetts both 6sp with the LT4 one with minor upgrades and the other one was pushing 490hp with heavy ol steel rods and regular ol pistons and I beat the he!! out of both of them for years and the Mobil 1 did just fine.


Mobil 1's formulation has changed significantly over the last 15+ years. The stuff from back then was better suited to that type of application than what's on the parts stores shelves today.
Posted By: BradH

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/04/14 05:38 AM

Ya' know, I took 3 months off from posting here and this is my first thread since May.

I decide to post this oil info from the maker of $1500+ roller lifters and half of you just want to get into a pi$$in' contest over how it's not good advice and how running Wal-Mart brand is all you need.

This place makes no sense...
Posted By: BradH

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/04/14 05:42 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Welcome back Brad!


Brad's gone... I killed that a$$hole for taking too long to get his junk back together. - Lars Peart (a.k.a. Drummer 1-3/4)




Guess I`m not the only drummer who`s "Bumped his head".........


I think I need a bigger bump to my head to make me forget this forum even exists.
Posted By: Aero426

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/04/14 05:50 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Well I had 2 1996 vetts both 6sp with the LT4 one with minor upgrades and the other one was pushing 490hp with heavy ol steel rods and regular ol pistons and I beat the he!! out of both of them for years and the Mobil 1 did just fine.


Mobil 1's formulation has changed significantly over the last 15+ years. The stuff from back then was better suited to that type of application than what's on the parts stores shelves today.



As of a couple years ago, the Mobil 1 4T bike oil was the same formulation as their 1990's "NASCAR" oil. It had the right additive package.

The 15W-50 Mobil 1 is also still suitable. It has elevated levels of ZDDP compared to other grades of Mobil 1.
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/04/14 12:23 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Welcome back Brad!


Brad's gone... I killed that a$$hole for taking too long to get his junk back together. - Lars Peart (a.k.a. Drummer 1-3/4)




Guess I`m not the only drummer who`s "Bumped his head".........


I think I need a bigger bump to my head to make me forget this forum even exists.

why because people tell you what you don't wont to hear?
Posted By: 74yellowduster

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/04/14 01:02 PM

zinc schmink

jesel probably cut some kind of marketing deal with joe gibbs or something

build it right everything checked dont just slap stuff together they are fine on most any oil that is changed regularly

you could run 1000000000 ppm zddp but if you build the engine without attention to detail it's not gonna last


here is a good read on oils this guy actually is an engineer that has TESTED and documented over 100 different motor oils how they compare for overall wear protection. the rankings start about 1/2 down the page

http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/
Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/04/14 02:51 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Well I had 2 1996 vetts both 6sp with the LT4 one with minor upgrades and the other one was pushing 490hp with heavy ol steel rods and regular ol pistons and I beat the he!! out of both of them for years and the Mobil 1 did just fine.


Mobil 1's formulation has changed significantly over the last 15+ years. The stuff from back then was better suited to that type of application than what's on the parts stores shelves today.



I don't doubt that but I didn't buy either of them until 2004 they both had less than 5k on them when I got them
and I not in a pissin match just stating facts.
is less zinc a good thing NO but as stated build the motor correctly and change oil like you should and any SAE oil will serve you well.
Posted By: dusturbd340W5

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/04/14 02:52 PM

Oh and all the lifter failures years ago was more about a huge batch of lifters that had been machined wrong and was let out in the market place than an oil problem.
Posted By: BradH

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/04/14 03:08 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Welcome back Brad!


Brad's gone... I killed that a$$hole for taking too long to get his junk back together. - Lars Peart (a.k.a. Drummer 1-3/4)




Guess I`m not the only drummer who`s "Bumped his head".........


I think I need a bigger bump to my head to make me forget this forum even exists.

why because people tell you what you don't wont to hear?


Not hardly. It's just been a reminder about how this forum has de-evolved into much less tech and much more opinion (rather than fact- or data-based) bantering and ego thumping.
Posted By: BradH

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/04/14 03:16 PM

Quote:

here is a good read on oils this guy actually is an engineer that has TESTED and documented over 100 different motor oils how they compare for overall wear protection. the rankings start about 1/2 down the page

http://540ratblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/20/motor-oil-wear-test-ranking/


Yes, the (in)famous 540Rat... whose methodology and interpretation of his data has been run though the wringer by smarter people than us over on SpeedTalk and considered "questionable" at best and downright bogus at worst.

He would never even post pictures of his test machine to dispute the claims that it was nothing more than a modern-day "one armed bandit" as used by shyster oil additive companies in the past.

I don't drink his oil testing Kool-Aid.
Posted By: BradH

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/04/14 03:21 PM

Quote:

Oh and all the lifter failures years ago was more about a huge batch of lifters that had been machined wrong and was let out in the market place than an oil problem.


That may have been PART of the issue (there was an influx of improperly machined offshore-sourced lifters as I'd been told from sources in the industry), but was certainly not the reason for "all the lifter failures years ago..."
Posted By: BradH

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/04/14 03:25 PM

Sorry for apparently wasting everyone's time on here. This forum simply isn't what it used to be from an engine tech perspective.

I'll be far more selective in what I bother to post or respond to in the future and will leave the threads to others.
Posted By: MRMOPAR622

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/04/14 05:44 PM

We buy the very best Hi $$$ parts find the Best Engine Hi $$$ Builders/Machinist to machine/build the engines to make sure everything is right.And after spending all of that $$$ we say if we use the very best parts and use the very best engine builders/machinist and we are 100% sure its built right,there is no reason to have to use the Hi $$$ oil the cheap stuff is just fine! I'm Guilty as anyone else on here of going overboard on engine builds and admit I will put my engine in the back of the truck and take it to the best people I can find matters not what they charge or how far I have to travel,but before I bring my engine back I ask these Hi $$$ engine Builders/Machinist what oil should I run and they all tell me use Off Road Race Oil Only if I want my engines to last.Wasting a few $$$ on oil is the least of my worries.
I use Lucas 50 weigh Off Road Racing oil,they keep it in stock at Advance here for all the round track racers but not on the selves you have to ask for it.I'm the one that talked the manager into stocking the Lucas oil along with help from all the round trackers.There is a lot more round track racers than Drag Racers around here and they change oil every week.

PS Them Hi $$$ engine builders tell me that 80-90% of engine failure now days is due to using the wrong motor oil.people just refuse to spend the extra $$$ and time to get it!
Posted By: slammedR/T

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/04/14 05:49 PM

Only oil mandated for use in gasoline passenger cars and trucks were required to lower ZDDP content. Your diesel and motorcycle and "off road/racing" oils are exempt from this. That is why Rotella T still ahs the zddp in it as it is a diesel oil. Also the information about content levels is available from the SAE on thier website.
Posted By: slammedR/T

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/04/14 05:51 PM

Quote:

We buy the very best Hi $$$ parts find the Best Engine Hi $$$ Builders/Machinist to machine/build the engines to make sure everything is right.And after spending all of that $$$ we say if we use the very best parts and use the very best engine builders/machinist and we are 100% sure its built right,there is no reason to have to use the Hi $$$ oil the cheap stuff is just fine! I'm Guilty as anyone else on here of going overboard on engine builds and admit I will put my engine in the back of the truck and take it to the best people I can find matters not what they charge or how far I have to travel,but before I bring my engine back I ask these Hi $$$ engine Builders/Machinist what oil should I run and they all tell me use Off Road Race Oil Only if I want my engines to last.Wasting a few $$$ on oil is the least of my worries.
I use Lucas 50 weigh Off Road Racing oil,they keep it in stock at Advance here for all the round track racers but not on the selves you have to ask for it.I'm the one that talked the manager into stocking the Lucas oil along with help from all the round trackers.There is a lot more round track racers than Drag Racers around here and they change oil every week.

PS Them Hi $$$ engine builders tell me that 80-90% of engine failure now days is due to using the wrong motor oil.people just refuse to spend the extra $$$ and time to get it!



I like that Lucas 50 weight race oil, buddy of mine runs it in his darg truck S10. It is just so hard to get it unless you order it online.
Posted By: dogdays

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/04/14 06:00 PM

RONG! Diesel oils may be exempt from that exactly, but they are still reducing the ZDDP or other additives for other reasons germane to modern emission systems on compression ignition engines.

And, for what it's worth, it's not the zinc, it's the phosphorus that harms the converters. But the molecule contains both, so reduce one and reduce the other.

R.
Posted By: Thumperdart

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/04/14 06:48 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Welcome back Brad!


Brad's gone... I killed that a$$hole for taking too long to get his junk back together. - Lars Peart (a.k.a. Drummer 1-3/4)




Guess I`m not the only drummer who`s "Bumped his head".........


I think I need a bigger bump to my head to make me forget this forum even exists.



Naw, it`s fun arguing w/people who know everything.........
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/04/14 10:20 PM

Quote:

Sorry for apparently wasting everyone's time on here. This forum simply isn't what it used to be from an engine tech perspective.

I'll be far more selective in what I bother to post or respond to in the future and will leave the threads to others.

please do because all i see is a whiner..
Posted By: camastomcat

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/05/14 12:47 AM

Sometimes I wonder how many still race here. It looks like y'all chased another one off......I'm not sure I agree with everything he said but, I'm the first one to admit I didn't have the knowledge it sounded like he had about oil. Oh....I buy the good stuff, just because.
Posted By: Darryls-Demon

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/05/14 02:15 AM

The SB that I sold not long ago had 9500 street miles on it and about 65 passes at the track.
The solid roller lifters are still going strong and I used what ever 10-30 weight synthetic oil that was on sale.
Posted By: Twostick

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/05/14 05:36 AM

Virgin Oil Analysis for Rotella T6 5w40 Syn from http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/.

Kevin

Attached picture 8261615-voa_Rotella5W-40T6.jpg
Posted By: 408cuda

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/05/14 08:04 AM

No facts to add but I would tend to agree there are plenty of other areas that can use the help still. How much is needed? I don't know. I swear years ago before anyone talked of this issue I read an article on the down sides of too much zddp. But this was centered around additives like GM EOS. Now I run this stuff Cenpeco and have mentioned it here a few times but nobody knows it exists

Fwiw I think Carl Hinkson (CNC blocks northeast) from speedtalk is a fan as well. A pretty sharp fella as I recall.

And I doubt Jesel is in bed with the oil companies! That is some conspiracy

Don't take any of it personally it's an online (fantasy world, where people don't act as they would face to face) message board. We're all here to learn right?
Posted By: Quicktree

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/05/14 12:32 PM

you can't make a post and then gripe about the response. show me the modern day oil that will cause engine failure? what brand? some people are so dam sensitive, they should stay in the house knitting or something.
Posted By: keefe

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/05/14 01:16 PM

Quote:

Ya' know, I took 3 months off from posting here and this is my first thread since May.

I decide to post this oil info from the maker of $1500+ roller lifters and half of you just want to get into a pi$$in' contest over how it's not good advice and how running Wal-Mart brand is all you need.

This place makes no sense...



...LOL
Posted By: GTX MATT

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/05/14 03:38 PM

Quote:

Chevy put ti rods and ultra light pistons in their modern LS7 small block because the Mobil 1 5w30 they "swear by" as their factory fill oil couldn't maintain adequate film strength in durability testing with more normal weight parts... and that's only a 500 HP (SAE net) hydraulic roller street engine.



For what its worth this is not the first time I've heard of issues with Mobil 1 5/30 film strength, apparently it loses film strength very quickly with use.
Posted By: BobR

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/05/14 03:45 PM

Quote:

trust me this is not a smart remark either but you don't know as much about oil as you think.

another thing to consider is that VERY, VERY few engine problems can be attributed to oil. more often than not it's oil delivery problems and/or improper assembly craftsmanship.

last i researched shell still had a decent amount of ZDDP in it.

oil quality would be low on my list of factors when diagnosing a failure



This. If you are unsure add a quart of Lucas stabilizer.
Posted By: slammedR/T

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/05/14 04:43 PM

Quote:

Virgin Oil Analysis for Rotella T6 5w40 Syn from http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/.

Kevin



I seem to remember some one on here stating that rotella T still had high levels of zinc and phosphrous??? wonder who that smart butt was???
Posted By: jcc

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/05/14 06:57 PM

However, formulations change, and that test is from 2010, and we can only guess when the tested oil was produced.
Posted By: Twostick

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/05/14 07:20 PM

Quote:

However, formulations change, and that test is from 2010, and we can only guess when the tested oil was produced.



That's why I included the link. There are hundreds of VOA's for every brand of oil you can imagine posted there.

If you really want to know what is in today's formulation, just stop by any heavy truck dealer and buy an oil sample kit, get a quart of your favorite flavor of oil and send some of it in. $20-$30.

Kevin.
Posted By: slammedR/T

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/05/14 07:55 PM

Quote:

Quote:

However, formulations change, and that test is from 2010, and we can only guess when the tested oil was produced.



That's why I included the link. There are hundreds of VOA's for every brand of oil you can imagine posted there.

If you really want to know what is in today's formulation, just stop by any heavy truck dealer and buy an oil sample kit, get a quart of your favorite flavor of oil and send some of it in. $20-$30.

Kevin.



I still got two blackstone sample bottles, I might have that done.
Posted By: 1968RR

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/06/14 01:19 AM

NAA ZDDP oil analysis results for popular brands: https://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...rt=all&vc=1
Phosphorus is what harms cats, but it is also the part of ZDDPs that provide anti-wear protection. I was told by K. Tyger (who works for Brad Penn) that ZDDP concentrations exceeding 1800 ppm can cause corrosion inhibitors to become less effective, resulting in an increase in corrosion-related issues.
Posted By: Sinitro

Re: "Don't need hi zinc oil since I run a roller" - WRONG! - 09/06/14 08:10 PM

Absolutely ironic...
Everyone is talking about the zinc..
But no mention is made about the cheaper camshaft cores made in China out of recycled materials..

Just my $0.02...
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