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440 Fluctuating Idle Speed #1644330
07/08/14 11:38 PM
07/08/14 11:38 PM
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Arkansas
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Nimbus426 Offline OP
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Hey guys, I have a '73 model 440 that suddenly wants to drop from around 1200 rpm to about 500 rpm while idling and then return back to 1200 and then drop again. If I put it in drive the rpm will drop all the way down to about 300. I tried putting new plugs and wires in. Now it just does it more rapidly. I used the Champion Copper Plus RJ12YC plugs that did seem a little shorter than the Autolites that I took out, but they were the recommended plugs from Auto Zone. I've never had this problem before. I put a light on the engine and got it adjusted where it sounds pretty smooth and then the rpm will just plummet. I thought maybe the fuel filter, but it is fairly new. I haven't tried cleaning the carb. Any thoughts would be appreciated. I'm still a rookie when it comes to engines just fair warning
Thanks!


-ERIC
Re: 440 Fluctuating Idle Speed [Re: Nimbus426] #1644331
07/08/14 11:47 PM
07/08/14 11:47 PM
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IL, Aurora
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ademon Offline
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What carb, where is the timing at?? I would up the initial timing then lower the idle screw for starters. Could be another problem like jumped timing chain? Need more info

Re: 440 Fluctuating Idle Speed [Re: Nimbus426] #1644332
07/09/14 12:53 AM
07/09/14 12:53 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Take out the idle mixture screws (count the # of turns to easily return them to their orig position) and shoot a 3 second blast of starting fluid into each hole (need the thin red straw to get it in there good) then replace the screws. If that ain't it then I would go thru the carb


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 440 Fluctuating Idle Speed [Re: RapidRobert] #1644333
07/10/14 10:50 PM
07/10/14 10:50 PM
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Nimbus426 Offline OP
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Thanks for your replies. While the engine was running I pulled a spark plug wire and nothing happened. I pulled another one and nothing happened. Then I pulled one more and the RPMs dropped. So I now know that at least two of my plugs/wires aren't sparking. I tried putting a different plug in but it made no difference. So it's either the wires (which are brand new) or maybe the distributor cap (which is only a few months old). So confused..


-ERIC
Re: 440 Fluctuating Idle Speed [Re: Nimbus426] #1644334
07/10/14 11:03 PM
07/10/14 11:03 PM
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Pendleton NY
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terzmo Offline
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I'd spray the carb base with carb cleaner to see if it smoothes out...would show a leak

Re: 440 Fluctuating Idle Speed [Re: Nimbus426] #1644335
07/10/14 11:15 PM
07/10/14 11:15 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Hook your timing light clamp to both of the offending plug wires (1 at a time) see if the light flashes. Next time I'd suggest grounding plug wires rather than pullling them off as electronics do not like open circuits & grounding/opening the circuit will disable it effectively the same (to check the RPM drop)


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 440 Fluctuating Idle Speed [Re: RapidRobert] #1644336
07/11/14 12:57 AM
07/11/14 12:57 AM
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Tempe, AZ
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loco340cuda Offline
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Are you running vacuum advance on the distributor? If so, disconnect it and plug the carb side connection. Reset the idle speed and see if the fluctuating idle goes away.


Last edited by loco340cuda; 07/11/14 01:00 AM.

70 Cuda 340 4 speed - now stroked to 416ci (SOLD)
2017 Mustang Shelby GT350
Re: 440 Fluctuating Idle Speed [Re: loco340cuda] #1644337
07/11/14 03:03 PM
07/11/14 03:03 PM
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Niwot, CO Formerly denn...
dynorad Offline
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Never mind.I read the rest of the posts and changed my mind.
find the cause of the dead cylinders. Intermittant wire? You might try swapping wires/ or plugs to see if the problem follows the wire. Look inside the cap. Check for burned wire.

Last edited by dynorad; 07/11/14 03:08 PM.
Re: 440 Fluctuating Idle Speed [Re: loco340cuda] #1644338
07/12/14 01:49 AM
07/12/14 01:49 AM
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Tempe, AZ
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loco340cuda Offline
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Quote:

Are you running vacuum advance on the distributor? If so, disconnect it and plug the carb side connection. Reset the idle speed and see if the fluctuating idle goes away.






disregard the above, I missed your post where you mentioned cylinders not firing.


70 Cuda 340 4 speed - now stroked to 416ci (SOLD)
2017 Mustang Shelby GT350
Re: 440 Fluctuating Idle Speed [Re: Nimbus426] #1644339
07/12/14 01:55 AM
07/12/14 01:55 AM
Joined: Mar 2003
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Memphis
HemiRick Offline
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Clean the idle circuits as described above, one side of the carb is trying to have clogged idle circuit. Rebuild it if this doesnt work.


Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
Re: 440 Fluctuating Idle Speed [Re: HemiRick] #1644340
07/12/14 04:21 AM
07/12/14 04:21 AM
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Arkansas
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Nimbus426 Offline OP
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Thank you all again for your comments. I think the carb is fine because I believe it is an electrical issue. At least two spark plugs are not firing. But I will probably give the carb a good clean anyway. It can't hurt anything.
I had my ignition coil tested and the primary winding was in good shape but the secondary was week so I purchased a new coil and installed it but the idle is still fluctuating. It will idle normal for a few seconds, then drop rpm for a few seconds. Normal, then drop. It's consistent. So I now have a new coil, new plugs, new wires, new distributor, and a new cap & rotor.
The car ran perfect before I took it to my buddy's shop to get some body work done. I drove it home which was a good 25 minute drive and it handled it fine until I pulled into the driveway and it stalled out on me. Hasn't ran the same since. I had been tinkering with the timing and the air/fuel mixture off and on for a couple of months but the fluctuating idle started happening just recently.
Thanks again for the help! I feel like I'm narrowing it down. It's only a matter of time before it hits the road again


-ERIC
Re: 440 Fluctuating Idle Speed [Re: Nimbus426] #1644341
07/12/14 10:54 AM
07/12/14 10:54 AM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Can I persuade you to shoot some starting fluid in the idle mixture screw ports


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 440 Fluctuating Idle Speed [Re: RapidRobert] #1644342
07/12/14 05:49 PM
07/12/14 05:49 PM
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Nimbus426 Offline OP
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Quote:

Can I persuade you to shoot some starting fluid in the idle mixture screw ports




Yes I will give that a try. But here is an update on where the engine stands. I put on the new coil last night and it didn't seem to make any difference. This afternoon I gave it another start and it's firing on all cylinders so I put a light on it and got it running pretty smooth but the rpms still dropped a little far when I put it in gear, down to about 500-600rpm. I decided to go for a spin around the block to see how the engine responded. As I was pulling out of the driveway I feathered the gas petal and took my foot off and it kept giving gas while the rpms went up from about 1000 to about 1200. I had to keep my foot hard on the break to keep from running into something. It would give gas for about 3 seconds and then go back down. So now I guess it isn't a spark issue. It seems like the carb is giving too much fuel now.


-ERIC
Re: 440 Fluctuating Idle Speed [Re: Nimbus426] #1644343
07/13/14 12:04 AM
07/13/14 12:04 AM
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RapidRobert Offline
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Make sure the throttle cable and the carb throttle blades/linkage/fast idle linkage ain't sticking & if good there then I'd open the carb


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 440 Fluctuating Idle Speed [Re: Nimbus426] #1644344
07/13/14 02:00 AM
07/13/14 02:00 AM
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Prospect, PA
BSB67 Offline
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Sounds like a vacuum leak

Re: 440 Fluctuating Idle Speed [Re: BSB67] #1644345
07/13/14 04:55 AM
07/13/14 04:55 AM
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Arkansas
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Nimbus426 Offline OP
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Quote:

Sounds like a vacuum leak




I'm pretty sure there is a vacuum leak somewhere. There is an airy noise coming from the engine but I can't determine where it's coming from. There were some open ports on the carb that I put caps on but there is still a noise that sounds like sucking air. I have a vacuum gauge but I don't know where to hook it up. There is a port coming out of the front of the engine next to the distributor that looks like it could be the spot to hook up the vacuum gauge but there are three ports coming off of it and they're all open. I'm not sure if those are supposed to be plugged up or not. Also the pcv valve is missing. How necessary is it to have one? Thanks again for all of the help!


-ERIC
Re: 440 Fluctuating Idle Speed [Re: Nimbus426] #1644346
07/13/14 05:21 AM
07/13/14 05:21 AM
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Arkansas
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Nimbus426 Offline OP
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Here is a picture of the port I was mentioning above. Is this where I hook up the vacuum gauge? The gauge only has one line and there's three ports. And is this thing supposed to be plugged? Thanks


-ERIC
Re: 440 Fluctuating Idle Speed [Re: Nimbus426] #1644347
07/13/14 06:16 AM
07/13/14 06:16 AM
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Norway
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General 68 Offline
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Hi. Seems like you just found a huge vacuumn leak. All those ports is supposed to be plugged. Connect your vacuumn gauge to one of the ports. Remember to plug that port again when you are done. There should be no unplugged ports on your carburetaor or intake. Also check all hoses for any vacuumn leak. You can run it without pcv but your system might be set up for the controlled vacuumn leak the pcv provides. I am not 100% sure about this so hopefully someone else will shime in. Lars

Re: 440 Fluctuating Idle Speed [Re: General 68] #1644348
07/13/14 05:45 PM
07/13/14 05:45 PM
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Arkansas
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Nimbus426 Offline OP
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Thank you Lars. I will plug two of them up and hook up my vacuum gauge. That should make adjusting the mixture screws a lot easier. I'll be sure to plug it back up when I'm done. I will see about getting a pcv valve and see if that helps the performance any.


-ERIC
Re: 440 Fluctuating Idle Speed [Re: Nimbus426] #1644349
07/13/14 06:55 PM
07/13/14 06:55 PM
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Norway
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Good. But I looked at the picture again and have to ask if the ports tree in the picture is bolted into the water pump housing. A little hard to tell from the picture. There is no vacuum source in the wp housing so that would have been strange, if not someone used a blocked vacuum tree to blend off a port in the wp housing?? Do you have a picture showing more of the surrendings?

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