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Re: 6-PAC SCOOP ISSUES SOLVED......................
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1552579
12/24/13 11:15 PM
12/24/13 11:15 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
408strokerdart
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,456
Out West
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Quote:
Last week I drilled and whittled some tear-drop holes(don`t ask)in the back of my scoop to release the trapped turbulent air and what a difference in plug readings and wideband numbers. I`m actually going to have to jet up and my cruise and wot #`s are rock solid............see, beer DOES give us inspiration.............No, I don`t have any pics..........   
I'm sure I picked up when I went to a modern snorkel scoop over my 6-pac scoop. Nothing back to back, but you know it has to be doing funny things to the signal when the scoop is 1/2" above the carb.
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Re: 6-PAC SCOOP ISSUES SOLVED......................
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1552585
12/25/13 03:07 AM
12/25/13 03:07 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 860
lancaster,california
johnnycuda
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 860
lancaster,california
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Hey Dom,let me know when this may go down,as I live like 5 miles from the spot the OKC/Cali race went down here in Lancaster....
1970 'Cuda,Lime Light,499 Indy S/R's 10.70's @125,street driven ALOT!
1966 Barracuda 360,now a 5spd,Hemi Orange,Hot Rod Air,
New daily driver-2003 Ram 2500 Cummins 5.9
'69 Valiant 2-dr, sleeper!
New project---1938 Dodge truck, plan is a 360 with a A500, AC, Calvert rear susp., rack and pinion front with coils.
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Re: 6-PAC SCOOP ISSUES SOLVED......................
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1552587
12/25/13 07:33 AM
12/25/13 07:33 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,563
Janesville, WI
SpareParts
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,563
Janesville, WI
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Quote:
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if he has an adjustable wastegate he can wind in more power & he's got 4wd.
Not worried but I hear what your sayin..............
Lol! A guy willing to street race you for money that tells you what his car runs  subtract a second. I have a couple of friends with 4G63 powered cars, talons and an EVO. the talons each hold records and the EVO easily runs single digits on a moderate boost tune. If he catches 2nd gear clean you may have your hands full but best of luck!! Bring us some video!
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Re: 6-PAC SCOOP ISSUES SOLVED......................
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1552588
12/25/13 12:10 PM
12/25/13 12:10 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I dont care about the street racing BUT would like to see what you did... SO... get some pics Dom Merry Christmas 
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Re: 6-PAC SCOOP ISSUES SOLVED......................
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1552589
12/25/13 12:36 PM
12/25/13 12:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,918
Akron, Ohio
ProSport
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,918
Akron, Ohio
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A guy that lives a couple blocks from me has a white Talon, I think he said it was 124 cubic inches. He took it to the track and went 9.80's at 148 mph.  It's amazing what a turbo can do but to me the 4 cylinders just don't have that awesome V8 sound that I love.
1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
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Re: 6-PAC SCOOP ISSUES SOLVED......................
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1552593
12/25/13 08:04 PM
12/25/13 08:04 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,030
ohio
67mprfan
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 1,030
ohio
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Pics please I'm in the same boat Happy Holidays 
71 demon stock stroke 440/indy ez-1 running 10.10 @ 132.14 mph in the 1/4 and 6.36 @ 107.46 mph in the 1/8 not in the same weekend but It did it then I sold it.
67 Belvedere that worked it's way in the 10's
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Re: 6-PAC SCOOP ISSUES SOLVED......................
[Re: 67mprfan]
#1552594
12/25/13 08:22 PM
12/25/13 08:22 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Pics please I'm in the same boat
Happy Holidays
Part of your problem is the carb to scoop clearance...
your asking a lot to have the air turn 90* in
that short distance... you would like the air horn
below the stock hood about 3/4" then use a ideal entry
which most on here call a velocity stack for the radius
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Re: 6-PAC SCOOP ISSUES SOLVED......................
[Re: GTX MATT]
#1552597
12/25/13 10:41 PM
12/25/13 10:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,918
Akron, Ohio
ProSport
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,918
Akron, Ohio
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I always figured my 3" 6pak scoop was holding my Dart back some with the carb being super close to the top of the scoop but 9.80's in street trim was enough for me, I'm sure an aero type scoop would have allowed more air, bigger jets and lower ET's.
I had an aero scoop on my Dartsport and it MPH'd well and really responded to each jet size.
I've seen guys with several large holes in the back of their scoop, and some of the cars with double stacked scoops have the whole back of the top scoop opened up.
1970 Challenger, all aluminum 528 Hemi, HDK suspension, Tremec 5 speed manual
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Re: 6-PAC SCOOP ISSUES SOLVED......................
[Re: GTX MATT]
#1552599
12/26/13 01:02 AM
12/26/13 01:02 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,563
Janesville, WI
SpareParts
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,563
Janesville, WI
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Quote:
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if he has an adjustable wastegate he can wind in more power & he's got 4wd.
Get him to go three rounds with you, he will be broken by the end, especially if he tries to crank the boost up.
Highly unlikely. Their stock long blocks will run a ways into the 9's for at least two seasons and lots of street miles. That I can guarantee. You.
Rooting for the mopar but nothing in racing is easy
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Re: 6-PAC SCOOP ISSUES SOLVED......................
[Re: justinp61]
#1552601
12/26/13 01:14 AM
12/26/13 01:14 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
My carb is 5 or so inches from the top of my six pack scoop and I've thought about drilling a couple 1" holes in the base plate and see if it picks up any.
Why dont you guys start testing those scoops... you
all want to use them but only because they are"correct"..
tape 2" long pieces of yarn to the front outside and
front inside... tape a camera to the hood in front
of the scoop and see whats happening... the yarn is
a cheapo wind tunnel test.. we actually do the yarn
thing in the wind tunnel before smoke testing, just
to get a idea where to look
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Re: 6-PAC SCOOP ISSUES SOLVED......................
[Re: 67mprfan]
#1552604
12/26/13 02:07 AM
12/26/13 02:07 AM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
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Why dont you guys start testing those scoops... you
all want to use them but only because they are"correct"..
mine came with the car and I'm to cheap to buy a new 1 just holding off until a used 1 to pop up 
What have you done to see if you can make it better...
have you tried no hood, have you tried raising the hood..
I bought the scoop I have just to get the inlet up
into the clean air flow... do I need it that high..
no I could get away with 3" lower but the more distance
between the carb and scoop only help.. but I also
use the string theory(string from the front of the
hood to the roof line) and have the bottom of the inlet
at or above the string
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Re: 6-PAC SCOOP ISSUES SOLVED......................
[Re: GTX MATT]
#1552608
12/26/13 03:09 AM
12/26/13 03:09 AM
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Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,563
Janesville, WI
SpareParts
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 1,563
Janesville, WI
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Quote:
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if he has an adjustable wastegate he can wind in more power & he's got 4wd.
Get him to go three rounds with you, he will be broken by the end, especially if he tries to crank the boost up.
Highly unlikely. Their stock long blocks will run a ways into the 9's for at least two seasons and lots of street miles. That I can guarantee. You.
Rooting for the mopar but nothing in racing is easy
Besides the fact that the stock long blocks have cast rods and pistons, and the cranks would hit the pavement, even if that were true their drivetrains won't last that many passes in the 9s.
Like I said I am rooting mopar, fact is the 4G63 crank is proven well into the 8's, the rest of it will go into the 9's reliably. Where you will see issues is the transfer case (in a talon) but the EVO has a much stronger T case. I'm not thrilled about it either but it's what it is.
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Re: 6-PAC SCOOP ISSUES SOLVED......................
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1552609
12/26/13 03:41 AM
12/26/13 03:41 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 778
Sherwood park, Alberta.
go green
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 778
Sherwood park, Alberta.
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Quote:
Most 6 pack scoops, HEMI scoops and WO/RO scoops are strictly for carb clearance, nothing aero about them. They are actually horrendous as far as drawing air. I would wager that 95% of the guys that use these unsealed and the carb actually protrudes up INTO the scoop, would be just as fast or faster with the opening blanked off and let the carb get underhood air. The underhood air, while hot, would be less turbulent.
FUNCTIONAL scoops are extremely rare
Monte
This right here ^^^^
The six pack scoop gets worse as speed increases , the frontal area on stock vehicles causes a low pressure area from deflecting air off of the grill causing a dead spot and lift zone area right around the scoop. By drilling holes in the back of the scoop you are actually letting air in not out from the high pressure area around the front windshield , this is the thought process around the cowl hood .
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Re: 6-PAC SCOOP ISSUES SOLVED......................
[Re: go green]
#1552613
12/26/13 02:12 PM
12/26/13 02:12 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Most 6 pack scoops, HEMI scoops and WO/RO scoops are strictly for carb clearance, nothing aero about them. They are actually horrendous as far as drawing air. I would wager that 95% of the guys that use these unsealed and the carb actually protrudes up INTO the scoop, would be just as fast or faster with the opening blanked off and let the carb get underhood air. The underhood air, while hot, would be less turbulent.
FUNCTIONAL scoops are extremely rare
Monte
This right here ^^^^
The six pack scoop gets worse as speed increases , the frontal area on stock vehicles causes a low pressure area from deflecting air off of the grill causing a dead spot and lift zone area right around the scoop. By drilling holes in the back of the scoop you are actually letting air in not out from the high pressure area around the front windshield , this is the thought process around the cowl hood .
 some of the guys are thinking backwards on
what is really happening with the holes
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Re: 6-PAC SCOOP ISSUES SOLVED......................
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1552615
12/26/13 03:04 PM
12/26/13 03:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
Not my case..............I attached yarn to my hood and it`s being pulled in so it`s taking air in the ft. plus now it`s not trying to rip itself off as bad at speed. 
If you can get your hands on an old Direct Connection manual, read the section on hood scoops. It explains perfectly what is happening and why most factory scoops are useless.
As for the yarn trick....unless you put it RIGHT at the opening of the scoop and filmed it during a pass, you still don't know. And even if it DOES pull the yarn in, doesn't mean a whole lot. As was mentioned above, the holes in the rear of the scoop are now allowing some air to the carb. THAT is what helped it. Aside from high in the air, the low pressure area at the base of the windshield is the BEST place to draw air and now you are doing that with the rear holes
All this same stuff you guys are talking about right now was PROVEN way back in the 70s by the Chrysler engineering team. The front end of a 70 Dart is still like it was in.......well, the 70s and the aero hasn't changed. Stock scoops suck(not air though), period, end of story.
Monte
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Re: 6-PAC SCOOP ISSUES SOLVED......................
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1552616
12/26/13 03:20 PM
12/26/13 03:20 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
Thumperdart
OP
I Live Here
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OP
I Live Here
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 19,318
State of confusion
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Quote:
Quote:
Not my case..............I attached yarn to my hood and it`s being pulled in so it`s taking air in the ft. plus now it`s not trying to rip itself off as bad at speed.
If you can get your hands on an old Direct Connection manual, read the section on hood scoops. It explains perfectly what is happening and why most factory scoops are useless.
As for the yarn trick....unless you put it RIGHT at the opening of the scoop and filmed it during a pass, you still don't know. And even if it DOES pull the yarn in, doesn't mean a whole lot. As was mentioned above, the holes in the rear of the scoop are now allowing some air to the carb. THAT is what helped it. Aside from high in the air, the low pressure area at the base of the windshield is the BEST place to draw air and now you are doing that with the rear holes
All this same stuff you guys are talking about right now was PROVEN way back in the 70s by the Chrysler engineering team. The front end of a 70 Dart is still like it was in.......well, the 70s and the aero hasn't changed. Stock scoops suck(not air though), period, end of story.
Monte
If that`s the case about pullin air from the windshield(which I find hard to believe)then how come all of the talk about a cowl having to be as close as possible when the back of my scoop is miles away? 
72 Dart 470 n/a BB stroker street car `THUMPER`...Check me out on FB Dominic Thumper for videos and lots of carb pics......760-900-3895.....
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Re: 6-PAC SCOOP ISSUES SOLVED......................
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1552617
12/26/13 03:30 PM
12/26/13 03:30 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Not my case..............I attached yarn to my hood and it`s being pulled in so it`s taking air in the ft. plus now it`s not trying to rip itself off as bad at speed.
If you can get your hands on an old Direct Connection manual, read the section on hood scoops. It explains perfectly what is happening and why most factory scoops are useless.
As for the yarn trick....unless you put it RIGHT at the opening of the scoop and filmed it during a pass, you still don't know. And even if it DOES pull the yarn in, doesn't mean a whole lot. As was mentioned above, the holes in the rear of the scoop are now allowing some air to the carb. THAT is what helped it. Aside from high in the air, the low pressure area at the base of the windshield is the BEST place to draw air and now you are doing that with the rear holes
All this same stuff you guys are talking about right now was PROVEN way back in the 70s by the Chrysler engineering team. The front end of a 70 Dart is still like it was in.......well, the 70s and the aero hasn't changed. Stock scoops suck(not air though), period, end of story.
Monte
If that`s the case about pullin air from the windshield(which I find hard to believe)then how come all of the talk about a cowl having to be as close as possible when the back of my scoop is miles away?
Its just a matter of how much pressure is at any
given point... I'm sure there is more pressure at
or real close to the windshield vs 8"-10" forward
of it... put a hose to a inches of water gauge and
move the end of the hose to different points to see
what kind of pressure is in different spots(make sure
the end of the hose is angled the same... then even
aim the hose inlet in different directions to see if
it changes)
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Re: 6-PAC SCOOP ISSUES SOLVED......................
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1552619
12/26/13 04:02 PM
12/26/13 04:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
moparniac
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,295
U.S.
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I'm in the 95% monte posted about :0)
Mopar Performance
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Re: 6-PAC SCOOP ISSUES SOLVED......................
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1552620
12/26/13 04:14 PM
12/26/13 04:14 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
I`m goin to mount a go-pro camera in there soon and I`ll have a video and pics later and if this isn`t the solution, I have another hood and it will get a cowl......... 
Nobody is trying to rain on your parade here or trying to say you are doing something wrong. We are only saying that all this stuff you are trying to figure out, has already been figured out. If you had ever seen a car in a wind tunnel with a smoke wand going, you would easily understand why the holes in the back of the scoop helped
Monte
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Re: 6-PAC SCOOP ISSUES SOLVED......................
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1552624
12/26/13 06:02 PM
12/26/13 06:02 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
I`m goin to mount a go-pro camera in there soon and I`ll have a video and pics later and if this isn`t the solution, I have another hood and it will get a cowl.........
Nobody is trying to rain on your parade here or trying to say you are doing something wrong. We are only saying that all this stuff you are trying to figure out, has already been figured out. If you had ever seen a car in a wind tunnel with a smoke wand going, you would easily understand why the holes in the back of the scoop helped
Monte
yep I figured that out 30 yeqars ago, Thumper you are slow
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Re: 6-PAC SCOOP ISSUES SOLVED......................
[Re: John Burdine]
#1552628
12/27/13 12:15 AM
12/27/13 12:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 437
south central pa
bdaz smblk
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 437
south central pa
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John put one of the high demon scoops on your car.I bought one of the aar 4" ones and added another 2" to mine it seems to work fine and all my chevy friend even said it looks better than the cowl hood.
3120lb, small block, 10.5" tire, NA, through exhaust, full int, WITH 83/4 REAR, 9.0 at 150mph
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Re: 6-PAC SCOOP ISSUES SOLVED......................
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1552630
12/27/13 12:25 AM
12/27/13 12:25 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 437
south central pa
bdaz smblk
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 437
south central pa
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I'm too dumb to post pics.But you can pm me your cell number or something and I will send them too you.
3120lb, small block, 10.5" tire, NA, through exhaust, full int, WITH 83/4 REAR, 9.0 at 150mph
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Re: 6-PAC SCOOP ISSUES SOLVED......................
[Re: bdaz smblk]
#1552636
12/27/13 12:49 AM
12/27/13 12:49 AM
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
1967dartgt
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,978
Hilltown Pa
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me too!!
That makes me feel alittle better haha.It's pretty bad my 11 and 8 year old are better on a computer then me.lol
You have a PM!!
Now my stupid phone don't want to send them too you.
Lol can we get your son in here to show you how to do it.
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