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wheelstands and 60' times
#1551227
12/21/13 09:57 PM
12/21/13 09:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 866
Winnipeg ,Mb. CA.
chryco
OP
super stock
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OP
super stock
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 866
Winnipeg ,Mb. CA.
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Do wheelstands effect 60' times ? Better to set up high or low. My car's currently 60ing at 1.37 and the bars are set low with about 4 - 5" under the wheels. thx chryco 
Last edited by chryco; 12/22/13 12:52 PM.
Gas is fer washin' parts ....Alky`s fer drinkin' ...Nitro`s fer Racin'!
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: chryco]
#1551228
12/21/13 10:10 PM
12/21/13 10:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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All you can do is try it out and see what happens. Go up about a foot and see what the slip says. My car responds best to about a two foot wheel stand. Pro Stocks, on the other hand, need less  Isn't the track a little slippery this time of year? I grew up in the Grand Forks area, never had good traction from December till April!
Last edited by gregsdart; 12/21/13 10:13 PM.
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: ProSport]
#1551231
12/21/13 11:37 PM
12/21/13 11:37 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,422
Pittsburgh PA
Eric
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,422
Pittsburgh PA
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They do when the rear tires are tripping the beams...  ...this one went out 120ft. Normally I'm 1.24 or so...it was a 1.33 60ft.
5.53 @ 125 1/8th on the launch control..more left in her!
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: dvw]
#1551235
12/22/13 01:21 AM
12/22/13 01:21 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,223
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,223
Bend,OR USA
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This car is lightweight, 2750 lbs. with me in it, it is nose heavy, over 55% on the nose and doesn't have a lot of power either 676 HP. It does 60 ft well, 1.27, with the chassis barely lifting the front tires  Powerglide with 5.86 rear gears in this run  I have to throttle stop it down to 10.00 and under 135 MPh t allow me to drive it legaly 
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: Brian Hafliger]
#1551237
12/22/13 03:18 AM
12/22/13 03:18 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
I know that others will disagree but with my car bigger wheelstands equal better 60 ft! Don't know exactly why but that is just my experience!! 
Mike 
My car does this too!
I can tell you why, if your car is better in the 60' with the wheels up in the air you need the extra rotation to plant the tires and make it hook.
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: Quicktree]
#1551238
12/22/13 11:45 AM
12/22/13 11:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,924
A shed in England
Tig
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,924
A shed in England
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Bigger wheelstands like this one below, slow down mine around .3 in the 1/4. Best Et's and 60ft's come from touching down just before 60ft. 
'74 Challenger..9.46 @ 145.9 1/4, 6.001 @ 118 1/8 so far. 4023lb !!! # N/A, Marsh performance 655ci, Indy Maxx, T/R, Indy 600-13 X's, Street legal, pump gas, full interior, Cal-Tracs, mufflers, 3:73's and real 10.5 radials.
9.51 @ 142.4 1/4, 6.003 @ 114 1/8 with our old mule KB, 572-13, 580 wedge.
RHD '68 Barracuda Fastback 323ci street/strip. Best ET 13.88 @ 99.03
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: chryco]
#1551240
12/22/13 01:58 PM
12/22/13 01:58 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,010
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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I see it as a situation of how quick total weight transfer can occur. A slow stocker doesn't have the power to weight to transfer quick enough to not have to use artificial weight transfer, like rear suspension reaction , soft front springs and travel. The more powerful the car, and the sharper the setup, (CG, suspension, applied power at the hit)the quicker all the weight gets on the rear, and the lower the wheelstand needs to be. If you watch a video of Billy Gliddens Mustang, you will see a car that has a better setup than most of the class he runs in. The car flat leaves with the fronts just off the ground, where others are pulling wheelstands to achieve the same thing, but not getting down track as fast. I suspect he learned a lot from another Glidden.
Last edited by gregsdart; 12/22/13 01:59 PM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: gregsdart]
#1551241
12/22/13 06:45 PM
12/22/13 06:45 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,267
North, Alabama
D-50
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,267
North, Alabama
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When you leave and the front tires go straight up does that effect your reaction time. Mine pulls them straight up at the hit and I have been having a problem red lighting. Thanks...
1.33 60 ft,6.21 at 110.59 in the 1/8, pump gas small block,2950lbs,drag radials,mufflers and driven to track ...
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: dartman366]
#1551248
12/23/13 03:40 PM
12/23/13 03:40 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 577
Arkansas
Adrielp
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 577
Arkansas
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I think longer wheelstands result in the best ET's if the weight distribution can be made suitable for great traction. I know for most cars that happen to be nose heavy, longer wheelstands will result in tire spin because the chassis isn't planting the tires well, such is the reason so many super stockers let those front wheels fly high. If you can get the weight distributed well, I think you end up with a long straight line wheelstand similar to Scott Gove's SS/AM car. That car has some of the prettiest yet effective wheelstands that you will ever see. Our quickest sixty letting out was 1.35 but my dad isn't comfortable seeing nothing but blue so he got out of it. We're gonna get some DADJ shocks up front before we get that aggressive again.
Adriel Paradise
Substation Design Engineer III
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: chryco]
#1551250
12/24/13 04:53 AM
12/24/13 04:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,372
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,372
Las Vegas
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I woudl think it would depend on the car honestly. Lower powered, tire limited cars may likely run quicker with more wheelie. Bigger power big tire cars will usually ET better with les wheelie. But it still depends on the car IMO. AS little wheelie as possible to net the quickest ET for your combo is what you want. There are very few universal truths in racing.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#1551251
12/24/13 11:23 AM
12/24/13 11:23 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 251
Saskatchewan (SK)
79410aspenrt
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 251
Saskatchewan (SK)
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I have enough power and torque to lift my wheels but it doesn't. I 60' 1.55, run high 10's, have caltracs, mono springs, adjustable shocks, and 90/10 shocks up front.
my car is 3800 lbs. I thought with this 440'' small block that I would have my front wheels lift a bit but it doesn't.
what makes them lift?
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: 79410aspenrt]
#1551252
12/24/13 12:38 PM
12/24/13 12:38 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
I have enough power and torque to lift my wheels but it doesn't. I 60' 1.55, run high 10's, have caltracs, mono springs, adjustable shocks, and 90/10 shocks up front.
my car is 3800 lbs. I thought with this 440'' small block that I would have my front wheels lift a bit but it doesn't.
what makes them lift?
leverage and torque... different style suspensions
will do it easier on certain set ups... with the 4-link
in my car I can adjust it right out or pull large
wheelies.. mine 60' the best with about 18" up to
about 26" up... that results in a 1.19 60' with good
rubber... here is a pic of the low and the high stands
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1551253
12/24/13 01:06 PM
12/24/13 01:06 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131
New Lenox IL
cudadon
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131
New Lenox IL
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Quote:
Too much emphasis is put on 60fts.........330 times is what matters. Even if keeping the front down costs you a couple numbers, which scenario you think is better to 330. The wheels a few inches off the ground or trying to push something way down the track with the nose 5 feet in the air.
Monte
 My 60 can vary .02-.03 but the 1/4 mile may be dead on
!
If we chase the setup to get 60s the same the ET will vary. Makes it hard to predict my next ET. 
If the other split times are close to the baseline, I believe the 60 is almost meaningless!
Merry Christmas everybody! 
Don
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: cudadon]
#1551254
12/24/13 01:14 PM
12/24/13 01:14 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Too much emphasis is put on 60fts.........330 times is what matters. Even if keeping the front down costs you a couple numbers, which scenario you think is better to 330. The wheels a few inches off the ground or trying to push something way down the track with the nose 5 feet in the air.
Monte
My 60 can vary .02-.03 but the 1/4 mile may be dead on
!
If we chase the setup to get 60s the same the ET will vary. Makes it hard to predict my next ET.
If the other split times are close to the baseline, I believe the 60 is almost meaningless!
Merry Christmas everybody!
Don
I disagree with you and Monte on this... 60' tells
me how efficient the chassis is reacting... you spend
more time in the low/slow end of the track... some
years back I knocked of .5 in the 1/4 just working
on the 60' to make it efficient
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1551255
12/24/13 01:27 PM
12/24/13 01:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131
New Lenox IL
cudadon
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131
New Lenox IL
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Mike I see your point. In my case I believe we have the chassis pretty well sorted out. My Barracuda does better at the front of the track compared to the top end for the ET it runs. 1.24-1.27 60' 9.13 @ 145-6 mph. A lot of 60 variences can be in the individuals staging process. Don
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1551256
12/24/13 04:04 PM
12/24/13 04:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Too much emphasis is put on 60fts.........330 times is what matters. Even if keeping the front down costs you a couple numbers, which scenario you think is better to 330. The wheels a few inches off the ground or trying to push something way down the track with the nose 5 feet in the air.
Monte
My 60 can vary .02-.03 but the 1/4 mile may be dead on
!
If we chase the setup to get 60s the same the ET will vary. Makes it hard to predict my next ET.
If the other split times are close to the baseline, I believe the 60 is almost meaningless!
Merry Christmas everybody!
Don
I disagree with you and Monte on this... 60' tells
me how efficient the chassis is reacting... you spend
more time in the low/slow end of the track... some
years back I knocked of .5 in the 1/4 just working
on the 60' to make it efficient
Would you rather have a better 330 or better 60ft?. Better 60 does NOT always yield the best 330 foot. I will take a better more consistent 330 every time. WAY too many variables in the 60ft. If you set the car up for the BEST possible 60ft it can achieve and shoot for THAT number. You are 100% reliant on he track being the SAME every me you roll into the box. What are the chances of that?
Tells you how the chassis is reacting? How is that?. If you don't touch the car round to round, the 60ft only tells you the condition of the race track from the last round. If you don't touch the bars, the chip, the tire, ect, how does the car react diff?
Monte
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: chryco]
#1551257
12/24/13 04:20 PM
12/24/13 04:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 23
Colorado
HCPBill
member
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member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 23
Colorado
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If you want a good benchmark to shoot for- compare your car to the NHRA & IHRA Stock & SuperStock racers. Keep in mind that in class racing these cars are typically much heavier than most bracket cars and the Stock classes are footbrake only. The guys and gals who qualify in the top 16 of the National and Divisional races are the best ones to seek out. You will be surprised at how well these cars 60ft. Look at the classification sticker on the side window and the minimum weight is listed there.
Bill
27 years in NHRA Super Stock racing driving the "High Country Plymouth" 'Cuda SS/FA 440+6
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: HCPBill]
#1551258
12/24/13 04:28 PM
12/24/13 04:28 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,848
MI, usa
dvw
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,848
MI, usa
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If you don't touch the car round to round, the 60ft only tells you the condition of the race track from the last round. If you don't touch the bars, the chip, the tire, ect, how does the car react diff?
Monte
These are my thoughts exactly. Some guys quest for ultimate 60ft, some for ET, some for MPH. Me personally, I like to win.
Doug
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1551261
12/25/13 03:26 PM
12/25/13 03:26 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Even as a heads up guy mostly and trying to go as fast as we can go every run, the 60ft is not the number on the slip I care about very much. For what we do on small tires, power management is key. So a killer 60ft is useless if the car won't go to 100ft. I will sacrifice 60 for a manageable car that is fast to 330ft every time
Monte
I have never had any issue at the 330 and 660 marks
if I got it to 60'.... I have only had a issue of
hooking on one track... and that was on the Friday
night before the Saturday race... they didnt do anything
to the track on Friday and there seemed to be moisture
on it as well.... on Saturday it hooked just fine
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1551263
12/25/13 03:36 PM
12/25/13 03:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
Even as a heads up guy mostly and trying to go as fast as we can go every run, the 60ft is not the number on the slip I care about very much. For what we do on small tires, power management is key. So a killer 60ft is useless if the car won't go to 100ft. I will sacrifice 60 for a manageable car that is fast to 330ft every time
Monte
I have never had any issue at the 330 and 660 marks
if I got it to 60'.... I have only had a issue of
hooking on one track... and that was on the Friday
night before the Saturday race... they didnt do anything
to the track on Friday and there seemed to be moisture
on it as well.... on Saturday it hooked just fine
I have found (around here at least) that test and tune is pretty useless for trying to dial my chassis in or work on my 60ft's cause smoe of the tracks that I go to don't prep the same on TT as they do for race day and my car can tell, I just use them to work on my reactions and make sure the car is running right, too many times the car would 60ft miserable on friday TT and be killer on saturday and never change the chassis.
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1551265
12/25/13 03:57 PM
12/25/13 03:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
Quote:
Even as a heads up guy mostly and trying to go as fast as we can go every run, the 60ft is not the number on the slip I care about very much. For what we do on small tires, power management is key. So a killer 60ft is useless if the car won't go to 100ft. I will sacrifice 60 for a manageable car that is fast to 330ft every time
Monte
I have never had any issue at the 330 and 660 marks
if I got it to 60'.... I have only had a issue of
hooking on one track... and that was on the Friday
night before the Saturday race... they didnt do anything
to the track on Friday and there seemed to be moisture
on it as well.... on Saturday it hooked just fine
You have to understand here, that I RARELY work on cars you can just put on the deck, cut it loose and give em all they have at the hit. Power management is what I do a LOT of. The point I am trying to make, is I can really hop anything way up and make if 60ft like an animal.....BUT....if that power is not manageable after that, the killer 60ft number is useless. The goal is to smoothly apply the power and make the car run hard to 330.
Let me say it another way. A 1.10 60ft is great.......but if I am hitting the car really hard to do that and it goes into tire spin at 100ft, what is that great 60ft gaining me......nothing.
Now I take the same car and maybe back the 60ft off to a 1.12 or so and it goes right down.......that's better, correct?
The point here is that the fastest 60ft is not the way everyone should tune their cars. Might be best method for a lightweight P-body with not a ton of torque, but others results will differ.
Monte
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1551266
12/25/13 04:04 PM
12/25/13 04:04 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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You have to understand here, that I RARELY work on cars you can just put on the deck, cut it loose and give em all they have at the hit. Power management is what I do a LOT of. The point I am trying to make, is I can really hop anything way up and make if 60ft like an animal.....BUT....if that power is not manageable after that, the killer 60ft number is useless. The goal is to smoothly apply the power and make the car run hard to 330. Let me say it another way. A 1.10 60ft is great.......but if I am hitting the car really hard to do that and it goes into tire spin at 100ft, what is that great 60ft gaining me......nothing. Now I take the same car and maybe back the 60ft off to a 1.12 or so and it goes right down.......that's better, correct? The point here is that the fastest 60ft is not the way everyone should tune their cars. Might be best method for a lightweight P-body with not a ton of torque, but others results will differ. Monte
I understand what you are saying about a big power
car that will spin the tires down track such as a
turbo car... I was referring to us N/A type cars
and MOST of the cars on here are just N/A cars
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1551268
12/25/13 04:22 PM
12/25/13 04:22 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Applies to N/A cars as well. Several guys on this board have cars with small tires and big motors, that you just can't deck and let them eat, without a bit of power management. You are still thinking of what works best in YOUR box, there are other boxes out there.......LOL!!
Monte
True
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1551269
12/25/13 11:44 PM
12/25/13 11:44 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,848
MI, usa
dvw
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,848
MI, usa
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Currently mine falls in to even a different box. It doesn't seem to spin,even on T/T. So the larger wheelie slows me down. That being said mine is lame down low. Last pass at T/T. It has 60ft 1.32 so yes the track affected it a little. 1.345 3.843 5.926@117.759.257@147.61Doug
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: hemi-itis]
#1551271
12/26/13 02:44 AM
12/26/13 02:44 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
Does this apply to all suspensions?Leaf,4 bar or ladder?If not please break it down 
Pretty much ANY suspension, be it leafs, ladder bars or 4 links, do the SAME thing when you drop the button and that is stretch the shocks, at least momentarily. What they do after that, depends on the leverage point of the chassis, the instant center. The only setup that has an adjustable instant center is a 4 link. Depending on where you have it set, the IC of a 4 link car will cause the car to squat, separate, or stay neutral after the hit. Most leaf and ladder bar cars continue to separate after the hit.
So yes, all suspensions work the same. They all supply "hit" to the tire and leverage downtrack depending on settings
Monte
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: cudadon]
#1551272
12/26/13 01:57 PM
12/26/13 01:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131
New Lenox IL
cudadon
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131
New Lenox IL
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Quote:
Mike I see your point. In my case I believe we have the chassis pretty well sorted out.
My Barracuda does better at the front of the track compared to the top end for the ET it runs.
1.24-1.27 60' 9.13 @ 145-6 mph.
A lot of 60 variences can be in the individuals staging process.
Don
My 1/8 mile times;
60 = 1.248
330= 3.708
660= 5.782
mph= 118.03
Don
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^^
