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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: dartman366]
#1551248
12/23/13 03:40 PM
12/23/13 03:40 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 577
Arkansas
Adrielp
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 577
Arkansas
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I think longer wheelstands result in the best ET's if the weight distribution can be made suitable for great traction. I know for most cars that happen to be nose heavy, longer wheelstands will result in tire spin because the chassis isn't planting the tires well, such is the reason so many super stockers let those front wheels fly high. If you can get the weight distributed well, I think you end up with a long straight line wheelstand similar to Scott Gove's SS/AM car. That car has some of the prettiest yet effective wheelstands that you will ever see. Our quickest sixty letting out was 1.35 but my dad isn't comfortable seeing nothing but blue so he got out of it. We're gonna get some DADJ shocks up front before we get that aggressive again.
Adriel Paradise
Substation Design Engineer III
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: chryco]
#1551250
12/24/13 04:53 AM
12/24/13 04:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,379
Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,379
Las Vegas
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I woudl think it would depend on the car honestly. Lower powered, tire limited cars may likely run quicker with more wheelie. Bigger power big tire cars will usually ET better with les wheelie. But it still depends on the car IMO. AS little wheelie as possible to net the quickest ET for your combo is what you want. There are very few universal truths in racing.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#1551251
12/24/13 11:23 AM
12/24/13 11:23 AM
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 251
Saskatchewan (SK)
79410aspenrt
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 251
Saskatchewan (SK)
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I have enough power and torque to lift my wheels but it doesn't. I 60' 1.55, run high 10's, have caltracs, mono springs, adjustable shocks, and 90/10 shocks up front.
my car is 3800 lbs. I thought with this 440'' small block that I would have my front wheels lift a bit but it doesn't.
what makes them lift?
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: 79410aspenrt]
#1551252
12/24/13 12:38 PM
12/24/13 12:38 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
I have enough power and torque to lift my wheels but it doesn't. I 60' 1.55, run high 10's, have caltracs, mono springs, adjustable shocks, and 90/10 shocks up front.
my car is 3800 lbs. I thought with this 440'' small block that I would have my front wheels lift a bit but it doesn't.
what makes them lift?
leverage and torque... different style suspensions
will do it easier on certain set ups... with the 4-link
in my car I can adjust it right out or pull large
wheelies.. mine 60' the best with about 18" up to
about 26" up... that results in a 1.19 60' with good
rubber... here is a pic of the low and the high stands
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1551253
12/24/13 01:06 PM
12/24/13 01:06 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131
New Lenox IL
cudadon
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131
New Lenox IL
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Quote:
Too much emphasis is put on 60fts.........330 times is what matters. Even if keeping the front down costs you a couple numbers, which scenario you think is better to 330. The wheels a few inches off the ground or trying to push something way down the track with the nose 5 feet in the air.
Monte
 My 60 can vary .02-.03 but the 1/4 mile may be dead on
! 
If we chase the setup to get 60s the same the ET will vary. Makes it hard to predict my next ET. 
If the other split times are close to the baseline, I believe the 60 is almost meaningless! 
Merry Christmas everybody! 
Don
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: cudadon]
#1551254
12/24/13 01:14 PM
12/24/13 01:14 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Too much emphasis is put on 60fts.........330 times is what matters. Even if keeping the front down costs you a couple numbers, which scenario you think is better to 330. The wheels a few inches off the ground or trying to push something way down the track with the nose 5 feet in the air.
Monte
My 60 can vary .02-.03 but the 1/4 mile may be dead on
!
If we chase the setup to get 60s the same the ET will vary. Makes it hard to predict my next ET.
If the other split times are close to the baseline, I believe the 60 is almost meaningless!
Merry Christmas everybody!
Don
I disagree with you and Monte on this... 60' tells
me how efficient the chassis is reacting... you spend
more time in the low/slow end of the track... some
years back I knocked of .5 in the 1/4 just working
on the 60' to make it efficient
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1551255
12/24/13 01:27 PM
12/24/13 01:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131
New Lenox IL
cudadon
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,131
New Lenox IL
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Mike I see your point. In my case I believe we have the chassis pretty well sorted out. My Barracuda does better at the front of the track compared to the top end for the ET it runs. 1.24-1.27 60' 9.13 @ 145-6 mph. A lot of 60 variences can be in the individuals staging process. Don
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1551256
12/24/13 04:04 PM
12/24/13 04:04 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Too much emphasis is put on 60fts.........330 times is what matters. Even if keeping the front down costs you a couple numbers, which scenario you think is better to 330. The wheels a few inches off the ground or trying to push something way down the track with the nose 5 feet in the air.
Monte
My 60 can vary .02-.03 but the 1/4 mile may be dead on
!
If we chase the setup to get 60s the same the ET will vary. Makes it hard to predict my next ET.
If the other split times are close to the baseline, I believe the 60 is almost meaningless!
Merry Christmas everybody!
Don
I disagree with you and Monte on this... 60' tells
me how efficient the chassis is reacting... you spend
more time in the low/slow end of the track... some
years back I knocked of .5 in the 1/4 just working
on the 60' to make it efficient
Would you rather have a better 330 or better 60ft?. Better 60 does NOT always yield the best 330 foot. I will take a better more consistent 330 every time. WAY too many variables in the 60ft. If you set the car up for the BEST possible 60ft it can achieve and shoot for THAT number. You are 100% reliant on he track being the SAME every me you roll into the box. What are the chances of that?
Tells you how the chassis is reacting? How is that?. If you don't touch the car round to round, the 60ft only tells you the condition of the race track from the last round. If you don't touch the bars, the chip, the tire, ect, how does the car react diff?
Monte
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: chryco]
#1551257
12/24/13 04:20 PM
12/24/13 04:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 23
Colorado
HCPBill
member
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member
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 23
Colorado
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If you want a good benchmark to shoot for- compare your car to the NHRA & IHRA Stock & SuperStock racers. Keep in mind that in class racing these cars are typically much heavier than most bracket cars and the Stock classes are footbrake only. The guys and gals who qualify in the top 16 of the National and Divisional races are the best ones to seek out. You will be surprised at how well these cars 60ft. Look at the classification sticker on the side window and the minimum weight is listed there.
Bill
27 years in NHRA Super Stock racing driving the "High Country Plymouth" 'Cuda SS/FA 440+6
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: HCPBill]
#1551258
12/24/13 04:28 PM
12/24/13 04:28 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,865
MI, usa
dvw
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,865
MI, usa
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If you don't touch the car round to round, the 60ft only tells you the condition of the race track from the last round. If you don't touch the bars, the chip, the tire, ect, how does the car react diff?
Monte
These are my thoughts exactly. Some guys quest for ultimate 60ft, some for ET, some for MPH. Me personally, I like to win.
Doug
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1551261
12/25/13 03:26 PM
12/25/13 03:26 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Even as a heads up guy mostly and trying to go as fast as we can go every run, the 60ft is not the number on the slip I care about very much. For what we do on small tires, power management is key. So a killer 60ft is useless if the car won't go to 100ft. I will sacrifice 60 for a manageable car that is fast to 330ft every time
Monte
I have never had any issue at the 330 and 660 marks
if I got it to 60'.... I have only had a issue of
hooking on one track... and that was on the Friday
night before the Saturday race... they didnt do anything
to the track on Friday and there seemed to be moisture
on it as well.... on Saturday it hooked just fine
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1551263
12/25/13 03:36 PM
12/25/13 03:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
dartman366
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 13,247
Mt. Vernon, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
Even as a heads up guy mostly and trying to go as fast as we can go every run, the 60ft is not the number on the slip I care about very much. For what we do on small tires, power management is key. So a killer 60ft is useless if the car won't go to 100ft. I will sacrifice 60 for a manageable car that is fast to 330ft every time
Monte
I have never had any issue at the 330 and 660 marks
if I got it to 60'.... I have only had a issue of
hooking on one track... and that was on the Friday
night before the Saturday race... they didnt do anything
to the track on Friday and there seemed to be moisture
on it as well.... on Saturday it hooked just fine
I have found (around here at least) that test and tune is pretty useless for trying to dial my chassis in or work on my 60ft's cause smoe of the tracks that I go to don't prep the same on TT as they do for race day and my car can tell, I just use them to work on my reactions and make sure the car is running right, too many times the car would 60ft miserable on friday TT and be killer on saturday and never change the chassis. 
Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1551265
12/25/13 03:57 PM
12/25/13 03:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
Quote:
Even as a heads up guy mostly and trying to go as fast as we can go every run, the 60ft is not the number on the slip I care about very much. For what we do on small tires, power management is key. So a killer 60ft is useless if the car won't go to 100ft. I will sacrifice 60 for a manageable car that is fast to 330ft every time
Monte
I have never had any issue at the 330 and 660 marks
if I got it to 60'.... I have only had a issue of
hooking on one track... and that was on the Friday
night before the Saturday race... they didnt do anything
to the track on Friday and there seemed to be moisture
on it as well.... on Saturday it hooked just fine
You have to understand here, that I RARELY work on cars you can just put on the deck, cut it loose and give em all they have at the hit. Power management is what I do a LOT of. The point I am trying to make, is I can really hop anything way up and make if 60ft like an animal.....BUT....if that power is not manageable after that, the killer 60ft number is useless. The goal is to smoothly apply the power and make the car run hard to 330.
Let me say it another way. A 1.10 60ft is great.......but if I am hitting the car really hard to do that and it goes into tire spin at 100ft, what is that great 60ft gaining me......nothing.
Now I take the same car and maybe back the 60ft off to a 1.12 or so and it goes right down.......that's better, correct?
The point here is that the fastest 60ft is not the way everyone should tune their cars. Might be best method for a lightweight P-body with not a ton of torque, but others results will differ.
Monte
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Re: wheelstands and 60' times
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1551266
12/25/13 04:04 PM
12/25/13 04:04 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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You have to understand here, that I RARELY work on cars you can just put on the deck, cut it loose and give em all they have at the hit. Power management is what I do a LOT of. The point I am trying to make, is I can really hop anything way up and make if 60ft like an animal.....BUT....if that power is not manageable after that, the killer 60ft number is useless. The goal is to smoothly apply the power and make the car run hard to 330. Let me say it another way. A 1.10 60ft is great.......but if I am hitting the car really hard to do that and it goes into tire spin at 100ft, what is that great 60ft gaining me......nothing. Now I take the same car and maybe back the 60ft off to a 1.12 or so and it goes right down.......that's better, correct? The point here is that the fastest 60ft is not the way everyone should tune their cars. Might be best method for a lightweight P-body with not a ton of torque, but others results will differ. Monte
I understand what you are saying about a big power
car that will spin the tires down track such as a
turbo car... I was referring to us N/A type cars
and MOST of the cars on here are just N/A cars
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