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wheelstands and 60' times
Posted By: chryco
wheelstands and 60' times - 12/22/13 01:57 AM
Do wheelstands effect 60' times ? Better to set up high or low. My car's currently 60ing at 1.37 and the bars are set low with about 4 - 5" under the wheels.
thx chryco
Posted By: gregsdart
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/22/13 02:10 AM
All you can do is try it out and see what happens. Go up about a foot and see what the slip says. My car responds best to about a two foot wheel stand. Pro Stocks, on the other hand, need less
Isn't the track a little slippery this time of year?
I grew up in the Grand Forks area, never had good traction from December till April!
Posted By: Viper469
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/22/13 02:43 AM
Posted By: ProSport
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/22/13 03:17 AM
^^
^^
Posted By: Eric
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/22/13 03:37 AM
They do when the rear tires are tripping the beams...
...this one went out 120ft. Normally I'm 1.24 or so...it was a 1.33 60ft.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/22/13 03:51 AM
I have to watch which tires trip the lights.. if its
all of a sudden slow its usually the rear tires
Posted By: 70satelliteguy
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/22/13 03:55 AM
I know that others will disagree but with my car bigger wheelstands equal better 60 ft!
Don't know exactly why but that is just my experience!!
Mike
Posted By: dvw
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/22/13 04:00 AM
Mine is best at about 8"-12". More than that it starts to slow. However traction does not seem to be an issue with my car.
Doug
Posted By: Cab_Burge
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/22/13 05:21 AM
This car is lightweight, 2750 lbs. with me in it, it is nose heavy, over 55% on the nose and doesn't have a lot of power either 676 HP. It does 60 ft well, 1.27, with the chassis barely lifting the front tires
Powerglide with 5.86 rear gears in this run
I have to throttle stop it down to 10.00 and under 135 MPh t allow me to drive it legaly
Posted By: Brian Hafliger
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/22/13 05:38 AM
Quote:
I know that others will disagree but with my car bigger wheelstands equal better 60 ft! Don't know exactly why but that is just my experience!!
Mike
My car does this too!
Posted By: Quicktree
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/22/13 07:18 AM
Quote:
Quote:
I know that others will disagree but with my car bigger wheelstands equal better 60 ft! Don't know exactly why but that is just my experience!!
Mike
My car does this too!
I can tell you why, if your car is better in the 60' with the wheels up in the air you need the extra rotation to plant the tires and make it hook.
Posted By: Tig
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/22/13 03:45 PM
Bigger wheelstands like this one below, slow down mine around .3 in the 1/4. Best Et's and 60ft's come from touching down just before 60ft.
Posted By: John_T_Brown
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/22/13 05:21 PM
No, just set the wheelie bars (raise or lower)until the car is smooth in first gear you will have the quickest times when the car feels smooth and slow. It will not matter how high you go when everything is right.
Posted By: gregsdart
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/22/13 05:58 PM
I see it as a situation of how quick total weight transfer can occur. A slow stocker doesn't have the power to weight to transfer quick enough to not have to use artificial weight transfer, like rear suspension reaction , soft front springs and travel. The more powerful the car, and the sharper the setup, (CG, suspension, applied power at the hit)the quicker all the weight gets on the rear, and the lower the wheelstand needs to be. If you watch a video of Billy Gliddens Mustang, you will see a car that has a better setup than most of the class he runs in. The car flat leaves with the fronts just off the ground, where others are pulling wheelstands to achieve the same thing, but not getting down track as fast. I suspect he learned a lot from another Glidden.
Posted By: D-50
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/22/13 10:45 PM
When you leave and the front tires go straight up does that effect your reaction time. Mine pulls them straight up at the hit and I have been having a problem red lighting. Thanks...
Posted By: 440W8 Duster
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/22/13 10:47 PM
Quote:
When you leave and the front tires go straight up does that effect your reaction time. Mine pulls them straight up at the hit and I have been having a problem red lighting. Thanks...
Yes it does I had the same problem that you have I was red lighting a lot.
Posted By: gregsdart
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/22/13 11:42 PM
Quote:
When you leave and the front tires go straight up does that effect your reaction time. Mine pulls them straight up at the hit and I have been having a problem red lighting. Thanks...
About .02 on my car.
Posted By: rebel
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/22/13 11:48 PM
Posted By: qwkmopardan
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/23/13 08:49 AM
The higher the wheels are in the air, the quicker my Demon goes.
Posted By: 70satelliteguy
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/23/13 04:11 PM
"The higher the wheels are in the air, the quicker my Demon goes"
How many passes do you get out of a rear bumper Dan?
Mike
Posted By: dartman366
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/23/13 04:34 PM
My car would 60ft in the 1.31-1.32 range with a much bigger wheelie but had John tone it down a little and now it in the 1.34-1.35 range but it much more consistant now and easier on front end parts and alignment.
Posted By: Adrielp
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/23/13 07:40 PM
I think longer wheelstands result in the best ET's if the weight distribution can be made suitable for great traction. I know for most cars that happen to be nose heavy, longer wheelstands will result in tire spin because the chassis isn't planting the tires well, such is the reason so many super stockers let those front wheels fly high. If you can get the weight distributed well, I think you end up with a long straight line wheelstand similar to Scott Gove's SS/AM car. That car has some of the prettiest yet effective wheelstands that you will ever see. Our quickest sixty letting out was 1.35 but my dad isn't comfortable seeing nothing but blue so he got out of it. We're gonna get some DADJ shocks up front before we get that aggressive again.
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/24/13 08:35 AM
Too much emphasis is put on 60fts.........330 times is what matters. Even if keeping the front down costs you a couple numbers, which scenario you think is better to 330. The wheels a few inches off the ground or trying to push something way down the track with the nose 5 feet in the air.
Monte
Posted By: Al_Alguire
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/24/13 08:53 AM
I woudl think it would depend on the car honestly. Lower powered, tire limited cars may likely run quicker with more wheelie. Bigger power big tire cars will usually ET better with les wheelie. But it still depends on the car IMO. AS little wheelie as possible to net the quickest ET for your combo is what you want. There are very few universal truths in racing.
Posted By: 79410aspenrt
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/24/13 03:23 PM
I have enough power and torque to lift my wheels but it doesn't. I 60' 1.55, run high 10's, have caltracs, mono springs, adjustable shocks, and 90/10 shocks up front.
my car is 3800 lbs. I thought with this 440'' small block that I would have my front wheels lift a bit but it doesn't.
what makes them lift?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/24/13 04:38 PM
Quote:
I have enough power and torque to lift my wheels but it doesn't. I 60' 1.55, run high 10's, have caltracs, mono springs, adjustable shocks, and 90/10 shocks up front.
my car is 3800 lbs. I thought with this 440'' small block that I would have my front wheels lift a bit but it doesn't.
what makes them lift?
leverage and torque... different style suspensions
will do it easier on certain set ups... with the 4-link
in my car I can adjust it right out or pull large
wheelies.. mine 60' the best with about 18" up to
about 26" up... that results in a 1.19 60' with good
rubber... here is a pic of the low and the high stands
Posted By: cudadon
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/24/13 05:06 PM
Quote:
Too much emphasis is put on 60fts.........330 times is what matters. Even if keeping the front down costs you a couple numbers, which scenario you think is better to 330. The wheels a few inches off the ground or trying to push something way down the track with the nose 5 feet in the air.
Monte
My 60 can vary .02-.03 but the 1/4 mile may be dead on
!
If we chase the setup to get 60s the same the ET will vary. Makes it hard to predict my next ET. 
If the other split times are close to the baseline, I believe the 60 is almost meaningless!
Merry Christmas everybody! 
Don
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/24/13 05:14 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Too much emphasis is put on 60fts.........330 times is what matters. Even if keeping the front down costs you a couple numbers, which scenario you think is better to 330. The wheels a few inches off the ground or trying to push something way down the track with the nose 5 feet in the air.
Monte
My 60 can vary .02-.03 but the 1/4 mile may be dead on
!
If we chase the setup to get 60s the same the ET will vary. Makes it hard to predict my next ET.
If the other split times are close to the baseline, I believe the 60 is almost meaningless!
Merry Christmas everybody!
Don
I disagree with you and Monte on this... 60' tells
me how efficient the chassis is reacting... you spend
more time in the low/slow end of the track... some
years back I knocked of .5 in the 1/4 just working
on the 60' to make it efficient
Posted By: cudadon
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/24/13 05:27 PM
Mike I see your point. In my case I believe we have the chassis pretty well sorted out.
My Barracuda does better at the front of the track compared to the top end for the ET it runs.
1.24-1.27 60' 9.13 @ 145-6 mph.
A lot of 60 variences can be in the individuals staging process.
Don
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/24/13 08:04 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Too much emphasis is put on 60fts.........330 times is what matters. Even if keeping the front down costs you a couple numbers, which scenario you think is better to 330. The wheels a few inches off the ground or trying to push something way down the track with the nose 5 feet in the air.
Monte
My 60 can vary .02-.03 but the 1/4 mile may be dead on
!
If we chase the setup to get 60s the same the ET will vary. Makes it hard to predict my next ET.
If the other split times are close to the baseline, I believe the 60 is almost meaningless!
Merry Christmas everybody!
Don
I disagree with you and Monte on this... 60' tells
me how efficient the chassis is reacting... you spend
more time in the low/slow end of the track... some
years back I knocked of .5 in the 1/4 just working
on the 60' to make it efficient
Would you rather have a better 330 or better 60ft?. Better 60 does NOT always yield the best 330 foot. I will take a better more consistent 330 every time. WAY too many variables in the 60ft. If you set the car up for the BEST possible 60ft it can achieve and shoot for THAT number. You are 100% reliant on he track being the SAME every me you roll into the box. What are the chances of that?
Tells you how the chassis is reacting? How is that?. If you don't touch the car round to round, the 60ft only tells you the condition of the race track from the last round. If you don't touch the bars, the chip, the tire, ect, how does the car react diff?
Monte
Posted By: HCPBill
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/24/13 08:20 PM
If you want a good benchmark to shoot for- compare your car to the NHRA & IHRA Stock & SuperStock racers. Keep in mind that in class racing these cars are typically much heavier than most bracket cars and the Stock classes are footbrake only. The guys and gals who qualify in the top 16 of the National and Divisional races are the best ones to seek out. You will be surprised at how well these cars 60ft. Look at the classification sticker on the side window and the minimum weight is listed there.
Bill
Posted By: dvw
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/24/13 08:28 PM
If you don't touch the car round to round, the 60ft only tells you the condition of the race track from the last round. If you don't touch the bars, the chip, the tire, ect, how does the car react diff?
Monte
These are my thoughts exactly. Some guys quest for ultimate 60ft, some for ET, some for MPH. Me personally, I like to win.
Doug
Posted By: rebel
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/24/13 11:12 PM
we don't change much with the car car on race days. we just tune our dial in to the track on the day. if we're slower than normal is always in the 60's & yes thats the track, not us.our dialin only changes by the hundreths, & thats proportional to the startline
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/25/13 07:16 PM
Even as a heads up guy mostly and trying to go as fast as we can go every run, the 60ft is not the number on the slip I care about very much. For what we do on small tires, power management is key. So a killer 60ft is useless if the car won't go to 100ft. I will sacrifice 60 for a manageable car that is fast to 330ft every time
Monte
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/25/13 07:26 PM
Quote:
Even as a heads up guy mostly and trying to go as fast as we can go every run, the 60ft is not the number on the slip I care about very much. For what we do on small tires, power management is key. So a killer 60ft is useless if the car won't go to 100ft. I will sacrifice 60 for a manageable car that is fast to 330ft every time
Monte
I have never had any issue at the 330 and 660 marks
if I got it to 60'.... I have only had a issue of
hooking on one track... and that was on the Friday
night before the Saturday race... they didnt do anything
to the track on Friday and there seemed to be moisture
on it as well.... on Saturday it hooked just fine
Posted By: markz528
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/25/13 07:35 PM
Quote:
Even as a heads up guy mostly and trying to go as fast as we can go every run, the 60ft is not the number on the slip I care about very much. For what we do on small tires, power management is key. So a killer 60ft is useless if the car won't go to 100ft. I will sacrifice 60 for a manageable car that is fast to 330ft every time
Monte
Makes a lot of sense to me............
Posted By: dartman366
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/25/13 07:36 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Even as a heads up guy mostly and trying to go as fast as we can go every run, the 60ft is not the number on the slip I care about very much. For what we do on small tires, power management is key. So a killer 60ft is useless if the car won't go to 100ft. I will sacrifice 60 for a manageable car that is fast to 330ft every time
Monte
I have never had any issue at the 330 and 660 marks
if I got it to 60'.... I have only had a issue of
hooking on one track... and that was on the Friday
night before the Saturday race... they didnt do anything
to the track on Friday and there seemed to be moisture
on it as well.... on Saturday it hooked just fine
I have found (around here at least) that test and tune is pretty useless for trying to dial my chassis in or work on my 60ft's cause smoe of the tracks that I go to don't prep the same on TT as they do for race day and my car can tell, I just use them to work on my reactions and make sure the car is running right, too many times the car would 60ft miserable on friday TT and be killer on saturday and never change the chassis.
Posted By: bigtimeauto
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/25/13 07:40 PM
Quote:
Even as a heads up guy mostly and trying to go as fast as we can go every run, the 60ft is not the number on the slip I care about very much. For what we do on small tires, power management is key. So a killer 60ft is useless if the car won't go to 100ft. I will sacrifice 60 for a manageable car that is fast to 330ft every time
Monte
^^^fact^^^
I think the problem here is there are to many different tire/chassis/engine/power adder or not combinations to ask this general of a question.
you need to find what works for your car and after you do you will be surprised at what you will learn.
generally instant big wheel stands are just a lack of power for the amount of hook and wheel stands in the 60 are to much power applied after the leave. The balance of the 2 is the fastest route down the track
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/25/13 07:57 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Even as a heads up guy mostly and trying to go as fast as we can go every run, the 60ft is not the number on the slip I care about very much. For what we do on small tires, power management is key. So a killer 60ft is useless if the car won't go to 100ft. I will sacrifice 60 for a manageable car that is fast to 330ft every time
Monte
I have never had any issue at the 330 and 660 marks
if I got it to 60'.... I have only had a issue of
hooking on one track... and that was on the Friday
night before the Saturday race... they didnt do anything
to the track on Friday and there seemed to be moisture
on it as well.... on Saturday it hooked just fine
You have to understand here, that I RARELY work on cars you can just put on the deck, cut it loose and give em all they have at the hit. Power management is what I do a LOT of. The point I am trying to make, is I can really hop anything way up and make if 60ft like an animal.....BUT....if that power is not manageable after that, the killer 60ft number is useless. The goal is to smoothly apply the power and make the car run hard to 330.
Let me say it another way. A 1.10 60ft is great.......but if I am hitting the car really hard to do that and it goes into tire spin at 100ft, what is that great 60ft gaining me......nothing.
Now I take the same car and maybe back the 60ft off to a 1.12 or so and it goes right down.......that's better, correct?
The point here is that the fastest 60ft is not the way everyone should tune their cars. Might be best method for a lightweight P-body with not a ton of torque, but others results will differ.
Monte
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/25/13 08:04 PM
You have to understand here, that I RARELY work on cars you can just put on the deck, cut it loose and give em all they have at the hit. Power management is what I do a LOT of. The point I am trying to make, is I can really hop anything way up and make if 60ft like an animal.....BUT....if that power is not manageable after that, the killer 60ft number is useless. The goal is to smoothly apply the power and make the car run hard to 330.
Let me say it another way. A 1.10 60ft is great.......but if I am hitting the car really hard to do that and it goes into tire spin at 100ft, what is that great 60ft gaining me......nothing.
Now I take the same car and maybe back the 60ft off to a 1.12 or so and it goes right down.......that's better, correct?
The point here is that the fastest 60ft is not the way everyone should tune their cars. Might be best method for a lightweight P-body with not a ton of torque, but others results will differ.
Monte
I understand what you are saying about a big power
car that will spin the tires down track such as a
turbo car... I was referring to us N/A type cars
and MOST of the cars on here are just N/A cars
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/25/13 08:13 PM
Applies to N/A cars as well. Several guys on this board have cars with small tires and big motors, that you just can't deck and let them eat, without a bit of power management. You are still thinking of what works best in YOUR box, there are other boxes out there.......LOL!!
Monte
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/25/13 08:22 PM
Quote:
Applies to N/A cars as well. Several guys on this board have cars with small tires and big motors, that you just can't deck and let them eat, without a bit of power management. You are still thinking of what works best in YOUR box, there are other boxes out there.......LOL!!
Monte
True
Posted By: dvw
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/26/13 03:44 AM
Currently mine falls in to even a different box. It doesn't seem to spin,even on T/T. So the larger wheelie slows me down. That being said mine is lame down low. Last pass at T/T. It has 60ft 1.32 so yes the track affected it a little.
1.345
3.843
5.926@117.759.257@147.61Doug
Posted By: hemi-itis
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/26/13 05:54 AM
Does this apply to all suspensions?Leaf,4 bar or ladder?If not please break it down
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/26/13 06:44 AM
Quote:
Does this apply to all suspensions?Leaf,4 bar or ladder?If not please break it down
Pretty much ANY suspension, be it leafs, ladder bars or 4 links, do the SAME thing when you drop the button and that is stretch the shocks, at least momentarily. What they do after that, depends on the leverage point of the chassis, the instant center. The only setup that has an adjustable instant center is a 4 link. Depending on where you have it set, the IC of a 4 link car will cause the car to squat, separate, or stay neutral after the hit. Most leaf and ladder bar cars continue to separate after the hit.
So yes, all suspensions work the same. They all supply "hit" to the tire and leverage downtrack depending on settings
Monte
Posted By: cudadon
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/26/13 05:57 PM
Quote:
Mike I see your point. In my case I believe we have the chassis pretty well sorted out.
My Barracuda does better at the front of the track compared to the top end for the ET it runs.
1.24-1.27 60' 9.13 @ 145-6 mph.
A lot of 60 variences can be in the individuals staging process.
Don
My 1/8 mile times;
60 = 1.248
330= 3.708
660= 5.782
mph= 118.03
Don
Posted By: John Burdine
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/27/13 02:42 AM
when I was running my car n/a pump gas it would run 1.31 wheels up high every pass netting 9.9x 133 in the 1/4. then I put a 1" aluminum spacer between the uca bump stop to restrict front end travel, the very next pass it went 1.33 (loss of .02 in the 60ft) but went 9.83 at 135. that got my attention.
this was with crap front shocks, so their was a lot of bounce after the big wheels up landing.
Posted By: Monte_Smith
Re: wheelstands and 60' times - 12/27/13 07:31 AM
There is LOTS of information on a time slip, you just have to pay attention to it. We all know about 60,330,660 and 1320 numbers, but what it does between those numbers is just as important. The "front split" is the time it takes for the car to go from 60 to 330. Make THIS fast and consistent and the car will be.
Monte
