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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1542799
12/07/13 08:26 PM
12/07/13 08:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,290
fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,290
fredericksburg,va
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Ok first ill address Monte, finally zeroed in on where you coming from, the head. The head configuration is not what defines a mopar by itself,the distributor,timing chain boss that sticks out from the block,oil pump on external front,and skirted block DEFINES A MOPAR. AS far as heads up racing there is none in the DC. Va. MD. area that i know of, it was tried a couple times and the big guys thew cubic money at it and poof gone. I'm sure we will have to use the twisted head till someone builds a better head down the road.It wasn't so much Alderman i was watching but the wedge head and i knew they where doomed because they where limited on bore size(for big valves)WE both have opinions and that's what makes the world go around, have a good day.
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: moparmafia]
#1542800
12/07/13 09:12 PM
12/07/13 09:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,290
fredericksburg,va
cudaman1969
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 8,290
fredericksburg,va
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moparmafia, since you mentioned Chevy guys,as a group, if you say i got a race car they want to know what type chevy you got, then look at me real funny when i say mopar, not a clue. Chevy's got your kings and then you got your peasants, like people who join those cult groups, not saying we don't have our fair share but we tend to be more in the thinking group and not eat what's shoved in front of us. More of an educated consumer. Now the "Charger"... a 4-door butt-ugly car, call it a Coronet not the great Charger name,same for the new Dart, you can only take so much blasphemy for the sake of marketing.
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1542801
12/07/13 10:32 PM
12/07/13 10:32 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 494
IL
EchoSixMike
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 494
IL
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Quote:
But you have all the weight and you still didnt increase
the HP/CI ratio 
Sure you can, more cylinders means lower weight for each part(piston, valve, etc.) The 3L V12's and V10's always made more power than the V8s in F1. You need less recip and valvetrain weight, so you can pull more RPM. Part of the reason for huge bores and short strokes, reduce piston velocity for better ring seal, not just so you can get huge valves in, but there's that too.
Anyways, you build the parts to fit the rules. With no idea of the rules, no point in spec'ing parts. S/F....Ken M
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: EchoSixMike]
#1542802
12/07/13 11:00 PM
12/07/13 11:00 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 515
geezer acres rest home
dakotawilly
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 515
geezer acres rest home
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this forum needs a b double e double r u n beer run,all u need is a ten and a fiver,car and a key and a sober driver,b double e double r u n,beer run,oh,and some excedrine...............
SFI 25.5 depends,no leak,even at 213 mph....
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1542803
12/07/13 11:14 PM
12/07/13 11:14 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,619
Norwich CT USA
Defbob
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,619
Norwich CT USA
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Quote:
Another major issue is that these "die hard" Mopar guys are way too hung up on the Hemi head. A large bore Hemi headed motor is NOT the way to make big N/A power. You need a wedge for that. Hemis make big power when they are boosted or blown, other than that, not so much.
Can you imagine how HEAVY the piston would be in a TRUE Hemi motor with say a 4.750 bore......jeez, you would need the hoist to put pistons in the thing........LOL!!!
Monte
The block can be made for both Hemi and Wedge heads. Wedges for Monte and Hemi's for those that want to be faster. 
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: cudaman1969]
#1542804
12/07/13 11:22 PM
12/07/13 11:22 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
Leon441
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,330
Lynchburg, VA
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Quote:
Ok first ill address Monte, finally zeroed in on where you coming from, the head. The head configuration is not what defines a mopar by itself,the distributor,timing chain boss that sticks out from the block,oil pump on external front,and skirted block DEFINES A MOPAR. AS far as heads up racing there is none in the DC. Va. MD. area that i know of, it was tried a couple times and the big guys thew cubic money at it and poof gone. I'm sure we will have to use the twisted head till someone builds a better head down the road.It wasn't so much Alderman i was watching but the wedge head and i knew they where doomed because they where limited on bore size(for big valves)WE both have opinions and that's what makes the world go around, have a good day.
I don't know about Summerduck dragstrip. But, there are heads up races in VA just about every weekend. And a friend races several tracks in Maryland in 10.5 outlaw at least once a month.
Leon
Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: Leon441]
#1542805
12/07/13 11:41 PM
12/07/13 11:41 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,619
Norwich CT USA
Defbob
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,619
Norwich CT USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Ok first ill address Monte, finally zeroed in on where you coming from, the head. The head configuration is not what defines a mopar by itself,the distributor,timing chain boss that sticks out from the block,oil pump on external front,and skirted block DEFINES A MOPAR. AS far as heads up racing there is none in the DC. Va. MD. area that i know of, it was tried a couple times and the big guys thew cubic money at it and poof gone. I'm sure we will have to use the twisted head till someone builds a better head down the road.It wasn't so much Alderman i was watching but the wedge head and i knew they where doomed because they where limited on bore size(for big valves)WE both have opinions and that's what makes the world go around, have a good day.
I don't know about Summerduck dragstrip. But, there are heads up races in VA just about every weekend. And a friend races several tracks in Maryland in 10.5 outlaw at least once a month.
Leon
Don't forget Cecil County's monthly Outlaw series
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: Defbob]
#1542806
12/08/13 01:28 AM
12/08/13 01:28 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,027
Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,027
Trumbull,CT.
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I've talked to Sonny's..... They told me their HEMI makes more steam than their wedge in these engines. That head is FAR closer to a MOPAR than ANYTHING "chevy". Make that casting look more like the 426 style from the outside and there ya go. Do a wide pan spacing for windage like the CN billet, with a front mount distributor and you have something that appears way more MOPAR than the next generation "chevy" (  ) HEMI.
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: Performance Only]
#1542808
12/08/13 09:41 AM
12/08/13 09:41 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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. Naturally any engine combo like that wouldn't be cheap, so I realize that probably eliminates 98% of the people on Moparts. This being Dans own opinion,I ask why ask for the poll in the first place?This has turned out to be a lesson in futility and is far removed from anyones imput being even considered.If he is planning on entering the market,then we wish him the best of luck. It did make for interesting conversation and a host of ideas and opinions but in the end the only persons idea he is interested is his own.That the cost eliminates 98% of the people on Moparts speaks volumes about Dans opinion of many here on Moparts which I strongly disagree. If he would take this to other sites that deal strickly with this type of engine,I think the results would be similar.  
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: B G Racing]
#1542809
12/08/13 10:55 AM
12/08/13 10:55 AM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
Performance Only
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
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Quote:
.
Naturally any engine combo like that wouldn't be cheap, so I realize that probably eliminates 98% of the people on Moparts.
This being Dans own opinion,I ask why ask for the poll in the first place?This has turned out to be a lesson in futility and is far removed from anyones imput being even considered.If he is planning on entering the market,then we wish him the best of luck.
It did make for interesting conversation and a host of ideas and opinions but in the end the only persons idea he is interested is his own.That the cost eliminates 98% of the people on Moparts speaks volumes about Dans opinion of many here on Moparts which I strongly disagree.
If he would take this to other sites that deal strickly with this type of engine,I think the results would be similar.
I probably should've chosen my words a little bit better so as to not give the wrong impression, let me explain. 98% of the people on Moparts are bracket racers or street strip guys. I seriously doubt anyone running brackets or street strip cars is going to spring for the kind of coin it would take to buy what I'm proposing. It has nothing to do with the size of their bank account and everything to do with their needs and desires. 98% simply don't need or desire a billet block with 5+ inch bore spacing. That doesn't mean some of those very same people wouldn't have valuable opinions regarding the subject though. In case you didn't notice, there happens to be some pretty smart people that hang out around here. If I didn't want any input or opinions other than my own I wouldn't have posted it here in the first place.
machine shop owner and engine builder
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: B G Racing]
#1542810
12/08/13 11:33 AM
12/08/13 11:33 AM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
Jerry Kathe
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 220
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People simply need to be realistic, if you’re interested in maximum effort power levels you won’t be doing that with oem designs, if oem designs outweigh your desire to achieve maximum effort, so be it. There is a place for all of us.
I would be all about going to the next level with Chrysler compatible parts, don’t really give a damn what they look like, it’s all about $ per HP and longevity. If Chrysler oriented racers are going to see evolution with technology, the gouging has to stop – why the hell would I or anyone else who is somewhat financially savvy want to spend over 40K for 1300 hp on a naturally aspirated bracket piece when you can buy two GM foundations that make the same power for the price of one in Chrysler clothing? I have pride…..I just don’t have ego.
I don’t need a lecture on economic, marketing or business practices – I get it……
However, to turn this market around for Chrysler enthusiasts; a solid, financially stable entity needs to come to the table with “volume of sales” as the objective for profit and not simply “percentage of margin per transaction”…..any loyalist with deep pockets out there want to change history?
I’m sure it would be a bumpy ride on the front half, but the market is there for sustainability…..Indy has already proven that.
I don’t know Dan, or what his thoughts are, but if you’re on our team….don’t discourage him.
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: Performance Only]
#1542811
12/08/13 11:36 AM
12/08/13 11:36 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
Quote:
.
Naturally any engine combo like that wouldn't be cheap, so I realize that probably eliminates 98% of the people on Moparts.
This being Dans own opinion,I ask why ask for the poll in the first place?This has turned out to be a lesson in futility and is far removed from anyones imput being even considered.If he is planning on entering the market,then we wish him the best of luck.
It did make for interesting conversation and a host of ideas and opinions but in the end the only persons idea he is interested is his own.That the cost eliminates 98% of the people on Moparts speaks volumes about Dans opinion of many here on Moparts which I strongly disagree.
If he would take this to other sites that deal strickly with this type of engine,I think the results would be similar.
I probably should've chosen my words a little bit better so as to not give the wrong impression, let me explain. 98% of the people on Moparts are bracket racers or street strip guys. I seriously doubt anyone running brackets or street strip cars is going to spring for the kind of coin it would take to buy what I'm proposing. It has nothing to do with the size of their bank account and everything to do with their needs and desires. 98% simply don't need or desire a billet block with 5+ inch bore spacing. That doesn't mean some of those very same people wouldn't have valuable opinions regarding the subject though. In case you didn't notice, there happens to be some pretty smart people that hang out around here. If I didn't want any input or opinions other than my own I wouldn't have posted it here in the first place.
Dan, we can both agree that the statement is misleading and yes I have noticed and some pretty smart guys here on Moparts and respect them and their opinions.Most of them seem to ask "why reinvent the wheel" since what you propose is already available and there is a gage for demand and market which is pretty limited.I also respect you and consider you a friend and as such is only comment out of respect and concern as to why take on such a project.I don't doubt your ability or passion but take the position of a savy businessman and would never take on a project with out having an knowledge of financial reward.I have been approched many times to invest in business ventures and would not consider them with out a solid plan from manufacturing,marketing and profitablity.Just raw materials and residuil waste recovery cost is astronomical let along design and machining cost.As only responding as a respectful friend,I hope you have considered my comments of concern for what their true valve are,and again If this is something your going to persue,I wish you the best.
Respectfully,
Bob
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: B G Racing]
#1542812
12/08/13 12:27 PM
12/08/13 12:27 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 515
geezer acres rest home
dakotawilly
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 515
geezer acres rest home
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I believe the bottom line is ,if there was no market or money in this,why would cn spend the time effort and money on programing,machinery, and engineering to do a billet hemi block?obviously,its there,if you can build a better mousetrap,it will catch mice........also,they are sold on a order basis so there isn't 100 of these sitting around,pay a deposit,a block is built.good common sense from a business perspective.cn isn't doing these blocks for health reasons,there is a market or it would never be offered in their catalog......................
Last edited by dakotawilly; 12/08/13 12:32 PM.
SFI 25.5 depends,no leak,even at 213 mph....
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: dakotawilly]
#1542814
12/08/13 12:57 PM
12/08/13 12:57 PM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
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Quote:
I believe the bottom line is ,if there was no market or money in this,why would cn spend the time effort and money on programing,machinery, and engineering to do a billet hemi block?obviously,its there,if you can build a better mousetrap,it will catch mice........also,they are sold on a order basis so there isn't 100 of these sitting around,pay a deposit,a block is built.good common sense from a business perspective.cn isn't doing these blocks for health reasons,there is a market or it would never be offered in their catalog......................
There is a market,however it's a limited market.To go head to head with those who are producing these now would be a catch up and those who buys these are looking to a proven piece,then lets not forget all the other parts and support unless this will be something that uses what's already available which is also limited.A CNC center to machine blocks is a very expensive item on it's own.I gave my thoughts and opinion enough and won't belabor this subject anymore.I will await and see what and when Dan does with this and if he comes up with a new mousetrap and is sucessful,I will definately take an interest.Again I wish him the best.
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: B G Racing]
#1542815
12/08/13 02:12 PM
12/08/13 02:12 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
MRMOPAR622
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
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I'm a Bracket Racer and own 2 of the Big Brand XXX engines,and would gladly sell them to buy a Big 5.0 Mopar engine.And I could care less if it looks like a slant 6 or Hemi as long as its a Mopar. Some say Bracket Racers have no use or do not need such Big engines,well try and Qualify for a T/D or T/S field. I'm a Racer and I don't know about anyone else but I don't want to have the Slowest race-car at the track. If there is no need for such a Big engine,why do so many Racers have them?The reason there are no Mopar racers with them is there are none for us to have.Have I not made my point here,some of us not only want them but would buy and run them,and if us Mopar racers can not get them soon there will be no more Mopar racers.There comes a time when you have to do what you must if you want to race. This is not the right/best word to use but the only one I can think of.Are the ones of you that are against this "Jealous" because if they were made the Mopar stuff you have would be out-dated...or you just do not want anyone to have anything better than what you have or can afford to own one?I just don't understand your reason's if its not for you,you would not have buy one. Mopar has been stuck in the  age for to long.  Had you not rather have this  bring you a new 5.0 Mopar engine for Christmas? 
"To Be The Man'You Have Got To Beat The Man"
"T/D and Pro-Bracket Racer"
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: cudaman1969]
#1542816
12/08/13 02:27 PM
12/08/13 02:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
Ok first ill address Monte, finally zeroed in on where you coming from, the head. The head configuration is not what defines a mopar by itself,the distributor,timing chain boss that sticks out from the block,oil pump on external front,and skirted block DEFINES A MOPAR. AS far as heads up racing there is none in the DC. Va. MD. area that i know of, it was tried a couple times and the big guys thew cubic money at it and poof gone. I'm sure we will have to use the twisted head till someone builds a better head down the road.It wasn't so much Alderman i was watching but the wedge head and i knew they where doomed because they where limited on bore size(for big valves)WE both have opinions and that's what makes the world go around, have a good day.
Sorry, I am confused I guess. What got this discussion going was YOU saying the "first time I ever saw the Predator head, I said that's a BBC head" but NOW you say the head doesn't matter, it is the block that more or less defines the motor.
Me personally, all I want it some parts that make power. I don't give a damn what they look like. Call it a damn Rambler for all I care.
Monte
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1542817
12/08/13 02:28 PM
12/08/13 02:28 PM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
MRMOPAR622
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 2,008
Sweet Home Alabama
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Quote:
Quote:
Ok first ill address Monte, finally zeroed in on where you coming from, the head. The head configuration is not what defines a mopar by itself,the distributor,timing chain boss that sticks out from the block,oil pump on external front,and skirted block DEFINES A MOPAR. AS far as heads up racing there is none in the DC. Va. MD. area that i know of, it was tried a couple times and the big guys thew cubic money at it and poof gone. I'm sure we will have to use the twisted head till someone builds a better head down the road.It wasn't so much Alderman i was watching but the wedge head and i knew they where doomed because they where limited on bore size(for big valves)WE both have opinions and that's what makes the world go around, have a good day.
Sorry, I am confused I guess. What got this discussion going was YOU saying the "first time I ever saw the Predator head, I said that's a BBC head" but NOW you say the head doesn't matter, it is the block that more or less defines the motor.
Me personally, all I want it some parts that make power. I don't give a damn what they look like. Call it a damn Rambler for all I care.
Monte
"To Be The Man'You Have Got To Beat The Man"
"T/D and Pro-Bracket Racer"
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Re: 5" bore space Mopar blocks
[Re: Monte_Smith]
#1542818
12/08/13 08:38 PM
12/08/13 08:38 PM
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Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 40
Flint, Michigan
ex_cuda_guy
member
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member
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 40
Flint, Michigan
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Quote:
Quote:
Ok first ill address Monte, finally zeroed in on where you coming from, the head. The head configuration is not what defines a mopar by itself,the distributor,timing chain boss that sticks out from the block,oil pump on external front,and skirted block DEFINES A MOPAR. AS far as heads up racing there is none in the DC. Va. MD. area that i know of, it was tried a couple times and the big guys thew cubic money at it and poof gone. I'm sure we will have to use the twisted head till someone builds a better head down the road.It wasn't so much Alderman i was watching but the wedge head and i knew they where doomed because they where limited on bore size(for big valves)WE both have opinions and that's what makes the world go around, have a good day.
Sorry, I am confused I guess. What got this discussion going was YOU saying the "first time I ever saw the Predator head, I said that's a BBC head" but NOW you say the head doesn't matter, it is the block that more or less defines the motor.
Me personally, all I want it some parts that make power. I don't give a damn what they look like. Call it a damn Rambler for all I care.
Monte
Hey that's an idea, Monte, a 5.3 bore space AMC Brewer head!! 
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