Hi guys, lurker turned participant, 1st post...

Switching over from drag racing to corner carving. Upgrading a much modified '74 Duster's stock disks to 11.75" w/ 2.75" single piston calipers (for now). Intended use 50% street and remainder mix of autocross and road course track days, no class competition at this time. Soliciting recommendations for the following to best meet the above usage:

1) brake pads, not overly concerned about dust
2) pad material in general ref fade, cold/hot performance, disk wear
3) brake fluid
4) opinions of phenolic vs metal caliper pistons

Thanks in advance, looking forward to the discourse on this and many other subjects to come. Ron [

Hawk or ebc pads, phenolic pistons don't transfer the heat to the calipers and fluid, and not DOT5. Tim

I've always wondered if any mainstream companies make good pads for the pin/slider calipers. I've got Firm Feel Carbon Metallic on mine, and when I bought them in 2005 I thought they were the best out there.

The biggest bang for buck in decreasing order but all very important IMO.

1. Proper pads for application
2. "fresh" high temp fluid, the emphasis is on FRESH
3. Any, even the most hokey, even temporary brake ducting.
4. Fronts are everything when you start out, backs working well get you into trouble

You can't/won't drive fast if you in the back of your mind are wondering, is this thing going to stop?

On my homemade setup I've put some older brakepads I found on a '77 Charger, thinking they would be probably be still made from the 'good stuff'... They certainly didn't 'look' organic but have a full horizontal groove running across them.
But eventhough brake force feels pretty good on the car, it seems the pads mostly 'polish' the rotors to a mirrorlike shine, instead of actually digging in to them a bit.

I would be willing to try a set of modern brakepads to see/feel if that makes much difference.

Probably not a lot of choice in pad materails and even if there was, usage will dictate compound. A good high temp race type pad is going to be uncomfortable being used on the street. Standard off the shelf semi-metallics are probably fine for your apps.

I agree with jcc's list. Fresh fluid is a biggie. There are any number of good performance fluids out there, Castol LMA, Red Devil, Wilwood, Afco, Ultralite that have high wet adn dry boling points without messing with incompatible DOT ratings. Fresh air is also huge.

Ill be going with Superblue or castrol rb600. I used the castrol on my Gti and really liked it.

Thanks for all the responses everyone. I've read every thread in this forum (and other sites) forwards and backwards trying to glean a consensus opinion but it seems guys are running a lot of different pads. Semimetalics seem to have more of a following.

I too agree with JCC and will be addressing each of his points in order. Appropriate pad selection was the basis of my original question. As I don't know what is available I was hoping for some input by those who have pushed them to their limits and have weeded out those found lacking.

So, no brand preference on brake fluid so long as it is a quality racing type?

What about phenolic pistons? Lots of posts out there about them having favorable characteristics, except for one: cracking = not suitable for performance use. Interweb nonsense or factual?

AlexP what is your opinion on FF's carbon metalics since you've been running them for quite awhile? Since I live about 6 miles from them and they offer matching rear shoes I was leaning in that direction but I don't want something that wont work well on the street (besides being $160 + tax a full set!!).

You're in a wet environment, so wet boiling is an important feature to compare when deciding. I personally have had longer street life with Valvoline's 'synthetic' or whatever they call it now DOT3/4 than with Castrol's LMA. I try to bleed the system every Spring. For track use, bleed at least every season if not before every event (as you would for W2W or time trial).

Autocross does not get the pads hot like a track day. You'll have to experiment a bit for whaich combinations work with your weights and hydraulics. Then there is how much force you are comfotable with and whether you like a brake that is more grabby or more progressive. Some manufactures (like Willwood) will share with you the coef of friction vs temperature. Most lining will have edge code data giving you a rough idea of friction performance cold and at somewhat elevated temperatures.

I have some new old stock rear shoes that are edge coded FE. The F is really good on street shoe or pad. The E is more typical. However FE means that as it gets hot, the friction will reduce and more effort will be required to stop. On a shoe, its a non-linear reduction due to the loss of self assist with the reduced friction. On the other hand, being a rear shoe, it means less chance of rear lock up.

Porterfield is another manufacturer to consider for both street and high speed track pads and shoes.

Excellent point about the wet environment here in the NW and one I hadn't thought of.

In a post by Tom Quad he showed the Wilwood pad and fluid he runs. At the time I was considering a Wilwood caliper conversion and after looking at the coef of friction/temperature chart for that pad I can see why he likes it so much. It is almost flat (little friction change as the pads heat) all the way to max temp.

Wouldn't it be nice if all the manufacturers would supply that type of info. Sure would help in pad selection.

What about running a more street oriented pad for non track and autocross and having an aggressive dedicated road course set for those occasions? Issues with pad seating?

That is really the only way to do it, but you will likely also need a way to readjust the F/R brake bias when changing pad compounds, but any sorted out car wants that anyway

I have a set of Hawk HP Plus for track and some stockers for street. No reason to drive around with the rotor wear,dust and noise of the Hawks. The dust is so bad that the wheels are toast after about 20 decent stops. I have Viper calipers so pad swaps add about 10 minutes to the time it takes to get your front tires off.

Yes changing pads (and maybe shoes in the rear) for track is the best. I should have come right out and said that. I've been looking at the compatibility issue and still haven't made up my mind. I was leaning very heavily toward Carbotech's line because they have two materials specifically for shoes. However, there may be some issues with availability and also performance in this application.

From my reading so far, having good transfer of material to the rotor (or drum) during bed-in is more an issue with certain types of material than others. The metalics less so and some of the new ceramics (eg Carbotech and EBC's) very important.

Another supplier I forgot to mention is Rochester Brake and Clutch. That's who TomQuad uses. They don't make production shoes, but will line your pads or shoes with a material they beleive is appropriate. They will also arc the shoe (as will porterfield).

72 Swinger I'm head over heals in L-U-V with your car. One of a select few inspiration cars for my project.

Time to get some calipers ordered up and get some progress made on this pig.
So far the input has been very helpful.
I need to figure out what pads I want to try on the street 1st, going to be awhile before I'll need a race set.

I work for Hawk. We make a pad for the 73 caliper.

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1) brake pads, not overly concerned about dust

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EBC yellow stuff or Hawk HPS are the best by far in a street driven car imo. I prefer the yellow stuff, but that's just what I'm used to, not necessarily better.

MOST important is to follow the MFG's instructions for prepping rotors and pad breaking procedure.

I run carbon metallic front (disc) and rear (drum). Why? they do reasonably well cold and do well hot for a street compatible pad. Fronts are Corvette pads for Bear Brakes 13" setup and rears are FF. I run similar material F/R so they act similar as they heat up. I believe FF carbon metallic are available for sliders and pin type fronts. As posted above, I understand carbon metallic may take more time to bed in.

Thanks Fury. I finally made a decision and ordered up some phenolic piston rebuilt calipers from Rock Auto. They have a wholesaler close out on some Wagner severe duty carbon metalic pads for $20 so I figured I'd give them a try and ordered a set.

No problemo JCC but its too late to cxl they shipped a couple days ago...

Right now I just need to get this pig together so I can get it running and driveable. Lots of stuff to sort out and get adjusted. Really didn't get any response to that question above so I made the decision. Realisticly I don't think I'll be able to out drive these brakes for awhile.