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Such a thing as TOO MUCH oil pressure #1488808 08/22/13 12:50 AM 08/22/13 12:50 AM
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 495 PA--USA 7 70VERT OP mopar
70VERT OP mopar 7 Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 495 PA--USA	My 440 makes about 90# of oil press at 1000 RPM cold and around 70# at 2000 while hot. Is this abnormal or anything I should try and rectify? Last edited by 70VERT; 08/22/13 12:54 AM.

Re: Such a thing as TOO MUCH oil pressure [Re: 70VERT] #1488809 08/22/13 12:58 AM 08/22/13 12:58 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,988 Warren, MI J Jerry master
Jerry master J Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,988 Warren, MI	Too much oil pressure is not necessarily a bad thing, however it wastes hp to raise the pressure and make sure your filter isn't going to explode or at least balloon. Superior Design Concepts 2574 Elliott Dr Troy MI 48083 jerry@sdconcepts.com www.sdconcepts.com Facebook page: Superior Design Concepts www.bcrproducts.com

Re: Such a thing as TOO MUCH oil pressure [Re: 70VERT] #1488810 08/22/13 01:07 AM 08/22/13 01:07 AM
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 654 MN astrobuf mopar
astrobuf mopar Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 654 MN	Yes, in my opinion. Oil pressure is a function of pumping capacity, viscosity and clearances . If your pressure is high due to too much capacity, your wasting power. If it is too high due to high viscosity, your wasting power and risking inadequate flow, if it is due to less than spec'd clearances, you risk bearing damage. Spec'ing a high flow pump with standard clearances often results in this situation. Don't do it. Astrobuf So, are you really a Rocket Scientist?

Re: Such a thing as TOO MUCH oil pressure [Re: 70VERT] #1488811 08/22/13 01:29 AM 08/22/13 01:29 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,043 U.S.S.A. JohnRR I Win
JohnRR I Win Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 75,043 U.S.S.A.	What pump do you have ? To me that too high at that low an RPM.

Re: Such a thing as TOO MUCH oil pressure [Re: 70VERT] #1488812 08/22/13 02:22 AM 08/22/13 02:22 AM
Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,444 Florida STAYcation dOoC The village idiot's idiot
dOoC The village idiot's idiot Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,444 Florida STAYcation	Quote: My 440 makes about 90# of oil press at 1000 RPM cold and around 70# at 2000 while hot. Is this abnormal or anything I should try and rectify? But what does it do .... hot at 6k rpms ?..... 2 much pressure costs power turning the pump 2 much PLUS it costs power getting the excess oil off the cyl walls AND running the rotating assembly through all the oil mist and droplets ...

Re: Such a thing as TOO MUCH oil pressure [Re: dOoC] #1488813 08/22/13 08:08 AM 08/22/13 08:08 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,664 Newfoundland M mopar_man master
mopar_man master M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 4,664 Newfoundland	The pump is not the problem , its doing is job and the pressure will go to 1000 psi if the pump shaft could take it. Your problem could be that the relief valve is set too high. Is the engine new ? have you verified that the pressure is correct using an external gauge screwed into an oil port in the block. you may have an issue with your oil filter. You may have an engine that is tight on clearances . Is your oil gauge mechanical or electrical ? I would confirm that my readings are correct firstby install ing a gauge into an oil port leaving your own gauge in place .

Re: Such a thing as TOO MUCH oil pressure [Re: dOoC] #1488814 08/22/13 09:13 AM 08/22/13 09:13 AM
Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours Supercuda About to go away
Supercuda About to go away Joined: Sep 2007 Posts: 14,889 up yours	Quote: But what does it do .... hot at 6k rpms ?..... 2 much pressure costs power turning the pump 2 much PLUS it costs power getting the excess oil off the cyl walls AND running the rotating assembly through all the oil mist and droplets ... You are confusing pressure with flow, they tend to be opposite as pressure is a measurement of restriction to flow. What viscosity oil are you running. Bet it's thick, I run, at most, 10w30, sometimes 5w30. I would seriously consider dropping the viscosity down, especially if you are running 20w50. I would also closely inspect the pressure relief valve because it is obviously not working. They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.

Re: Such a thing as TOO MUCH oil pressure [Re: Supercuda] #1488815 08/22/13 11:59 AM 08/22/13 11:59 AM
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 495 PA--USA 7 70VERT OP mopar
70VERT OP mopar 7 Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 495 PA--USA	I'm running 10W-30 and using a stock oil pump. The engine has been running this way for about 5000 miles. I never really questioned it becouse I always thought more was better I rarely take it over 5K but at those revs and hot it pushes about 55-60#.

Re: Such a thing as TOO MUCH oil pressure [Re: 70VERT] #1488816 08/22/13 12:49 PM 08/22/13 12:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada Dodgem master
Dodgem master Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada	Quote: I'm running 10W-30 and using a stock oil pump. The engine has been running this way for about 5000 miles. I never really questioned it becouse I always thought more was better I rarely take it over 5K but at those revs and hot it pushes about 55-60#. That is bang on just go on with your life!

Re: Such a thing as TOO MUCH oil pressure [Re: 70VERT] #1488817 08/22/13 12:55 PM 08/22/13 12:55 PM
Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,886 Lost and Spaced B bboogieart master
bboogieart master B Joined: Jan 2008 Posts: 3,886 Lost and Spaced	Quote: My 440 makes about 90# of oil press at 1000 RPM cold and around 70# at 2000 while hot. Is this abnormal or anything I should try and rectify? Maybe I'm not reading this right. Isn't this backwards? Shouldn't there be more pressure at higher rpm's? I have mechanical Aptitude. I can screw up anything.

Re: Such a thing as TOO MUCH oil pressure [Re: bboogieart] #1488818 08/22/13 01:11 PM 08/22/13 01:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376 D dogdays I Live Here
dogdays I Live Here D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 16,376	Assuming the pressure reading is correct, here are thoughts. 1. The #1 thing I thought of was you're going to shear off the oil pump drive. 2. I am assuming that the reason the oil pressure is lower at low rpm is this is a "first thing in the morning" reading and the oil hasn't warmed up yet. 3. You certainly don't need that amount of oil pressure. 4. I'd immediately reduce the viscosity of the fill and see what happens. For example, cheapest would be drain off a couple of quarts and put in a couple of quarts of 5W-20. The engine oil system uses a constant volume pump pumping into a controlled leak. Disregarding minor internal leakage that increases with pressure, the pump pumps a given flow or gpm that's directly proportional to engine rpm. So for example, if it pumps 10 gpm at 1000 rpm it'll pump 60 gpm at 6000 rpm. The pressure you see in the pressure gauge is a RESULT of that amount of oil being forced through the controlled leak. Increase the size of the leak and resultant pressure will be lower at any rpm. It's that simple. Viscosity effects act like increasing or decreasing the size of the leak. Higher viscosity oil doesn't leak as much, so you get a nigher resultant pressure, all other things being constant. R. The oil pump drive is the weak link in this system. As stock oil pump drives have been known to shear, I'd get some attention to yours immediately.

Re: Such a thing as TOO MUCH oil pressure [Re: dogdays] #1488819 08/22/13 01:58 PM 08/22/13 01:58 PM
Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 495 PA--USA 7 70VERT OP mopar
70VERT OP mopar 7 Joined: Apr 2003 Posts: 495 PA--USA	Not that I'm totally confused, should i thonk about some sort of adjustment? 5W -20 I had in there before didn't make a huge difference

Re: Such a thing as TOO MUCH oil pressure [Re: 70VERT] #1488820 08/22/13 02:37 PM 08/22/13 02:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,852 Rio Linda, CA John_Kunkel Too Many Posts
John_Kunkel Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 25,852 Rio Linda, CA	Does the engine have a high-volume pump? If so, changing to a standard pump will probably bring the pressure back to normal. The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway

Re: Such a thing as TOO MUCH oil pressure [Re: John_Kunkel] #1488821 08/22/13 02:54 PM 08/22/13 02:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 11,684 W. Kentucky justinp61 I Live Here
justinp61 I Live Here Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 11,684 W. Kentucky	Years ago I had a 440 with a high pressure pump in it, in cold weather it would peg a 100# gauge at start up. At temperature it ran almost 75# at cruise rpms. The only oil I ever ran in it was Havoline 10-40. After beating on it for five years I rebuilt it and installed a standard pump.

Re: Such a thing as TOO MUCH oil pressure [Re: 70VERT] #1488822 08/22/13 02:58 PM 08/22/13 02:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada Dodgem master
Dodgem master Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada	10 w 30 when I rebuilt my 440 in 83 it would go 100 cold and 85 or more hot at 2000. at the end of the 1/4 many years later would like over and always see 110 never hurt anything street or strip. In 2006 I put a Big milodon pump on and then an adjustable oil presssure regulator and now have it set so cold 2000 is 75 and hot 2000 is 75 and 7000 rpm is still 75. http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/milbrbadregk.html don't over think it just be happy you have good pressure!

Re: Such a thing as TOO MUCH oil pressure [Re: 70VERT] #1488823 08/22/13 03:45 PM 08/22/13 03:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,218 Bend,OR USA C Cab_Burge I Win
Cab_Burge I Win C Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 43,218 Bend,OR USA	Quote: Not that I'm totally confused, should i thonk about some sort of adjustment? 5W -20 I had in there before didn't make a huge difference Two things come to mind, first is the oil pressure gauge accurate? I would chek it first and if it is you may want to trim the bypass spring so it has 50 to 60 lbs at 5000 RPM plus with hot oil. I have seen a 10 HP gain on the engine dyno testing 30 Wt oil at 130 F then letting the motor run until the oil temps where at 170 F starting the next dyno test I later switched to 10W30 Wt and saw around 5 HP diffeerrnce in cool oil versus warm oil, last time testing was with 5W20 Wt and I saw no changes in power from 70F to 190 F oil temps. with that oil I'm mainly a bracket racers so controlling oil temps is not always doable at the track during competion The second thing on robbing HP with the oil pump also takes a tiny bit more fuel and robs the wallet at the same time I like free HP Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)

Re: Such a thing as TOO MUCH oil pressure [Re: 70VERT] #1488824 08/22/13 04:01 PM 08/22/13 04:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	I'd want less: a bit more power/less stress on the hex/less chance of burst filter. You're running thin oil. what I'd do is what Cab said is confirm the gauge accuracy which should be done either way. As said might not be a dealbreaker (as long as the filter/hex doesn't break) but with the easy access of a BB pump I'd pull the reg & see if it's free & clip a coil off of the spring & then see what you get (but confirm the gauge accuracy first). Is this a DD or raced or a street brawler? live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: Such a thing as TOO MUCH oil pressure [Re: RapidRobert] #1488825 08/22/13 06:24 PM 08/22/13 06:24 PM
Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,126 Hunt Valley, Maryland 1fastrunner top fuel
1fastrunner top fuel Joined: Jul 2003 Posts: 2,126 Hunt Valley, Maryland	I had so much once, it came out through the filter. The guy that had the car before me ran the blue (I think for the highest pressure), but that wasn't enough for him....he added washers? I was lucky it was discovered close to home and I noticed it right away.

Re: Such a thing as TOO MUCH oil pressure [Re: Dodgem] #1488826 08/22/13 11:20 PM 08/22/13 11:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,664 IN A ahy master
ahy master A Joined: Jan 2007 Posts: 7,664 IN	Quote: Quote: I'm running 10W-30 and using a stock oil pump. The engine has been running this way for about 5000 miles. I never really questioned it becouse I always thought more was better I rarely take it over 5K but at those revs and hot it pushes about 55-60#. That is bang on just go on with your life! Agree. 55-60 PSI hot at speed is ideal. It is bound to be higher when cold. Just don't push it too much when cold (like any performance engine). 5W30 may ease the high OP at start up but I wouldn't sweat it. More important is to make sure you are running high zinc oil or a zinc additive with a flat tappet.

Re: Such a thing as TOO MUCH oil pressure [Re: justinp61] #1488827 08/22/13 11:39 PM 08/22/13 11:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 654 MN astrobuf mopar
astrobuf mopar Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 654 MN	Quote: Years ago I had a 440 with a high pressure pump in it, in cold weather it would peg a 100# gauge at start up. At temperature it ran almost 75# at cruise rpms. The only oil I ever ran in it was Havoline 10-40. After beating on it for five years I rebuilt it and installed a standard pump. High pressure and high volume pumps are two entirely different things. I high pressure pump simply has a higher rated relief spring. A high volume pump has a higher displacement volume. Astrobuf

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