I have mainly tried them in pump gas engines around 500 cu in, and in those cases they haven't worked very well. They have huge ports compared to teh flow, which means low velocity. The ones I built did not make enormous power and were a bit shy on tq too. Even if they flow better than some others, I propably wouldn't use them except in all out engines. Different story with more cubes, I guess. And will find out, there is a set that made 780 hp on a 500 going on a 604 short block. We'll see....

Hello guys, I'm a graduating Mechanical Engineer(2days away) and this thread makes me wonder if I will make any money whatsoever in finishing a BBM canted valve cylinder head project I'm working on lol. Luckily, I'm passionate and driven to succeed so as long as things proof out, I will have them machined by the end of next year hopefully. Its a slow process when your doing it essentially by yourself.


My question is what are people typically doing with these big stroker motors? That could be half of the problem right there.

If most of these builds are being used in bracket racing, there's no need to go all out unless your trying to run Top Sportsman Naturally Aspirated. I know in my region, there are barely any Mopars running faster than 9.20's so the big strokers aren't really needed for that. Also, when I think of the faster cars, they either have Sonny's for power, a BBC, use a power adder, top of the line SB's, or use hemi99 power. In general, most mopar guys just run the brackets and are between 6.00-6.50 in the 1/8th mile. Now that I think about, there is one car at our local track that has a B1 motor and runs 5.20's. Other than that, I don't see many around my way or at local events elsewhere.

I think it is a double whammy. The custom pistons along with the custom headers put the b1's out of most people's comfort zone. Someone tool up a 2.25 header that will work on an A B or E body and I bet you would see many more. Probably some of the best money koffel's could spend would be to get a shelf header and pistons. The b1 has had it's day as the cutting edge race head but as a big inch street and strip or fast bracket alternative it could be a whole new horizon. I believe it would be just a matter of making the needed parts readily available.

Koffel's are you listening? Someone should send them a link to this thread. Lol

Well I am sure I will get beat over the head with this one but here goes.

I am still very much on the fence about the Predator deal. They show great potential for sure as the best available head other than the 99 stuff. However everyone I know personally that has one has had some reliability issues with them. Three of those came from big name Mopar shops. I have a set on the shelf and we have not built anything with them yet. Not so much due to others reliability issues, although that is certainly a concern but more I dont have a car to put one in yet. I also understand there are a number of them out there running really hard. For me my current B1MC runs fine and is plenty for the car I have. we certainly have some left on the table with my current car as far as all out racing is concerned. If I ever get a light car we will look much harder at the Predator deal.

As for th B1 points. Do yo uguys really think a shelf piston and headers will help?? I agree with the marketing plan that has not been the strongest and dont see that changing. These heads have been around OVER 20 years and they still are not very plentiful. So what does one think a set of B1 shelf headers will run ya?? My guess is TTI prices or better due to lack of sales. So why bother for a set of headers that will at best be a compromise. For a few hundred more you can get a much better performing piece that actually fits whatever chassis it is in. Not something you have to dent, move, curse or disassemble most of the car to install.

As for the need for bigger strokers. I will provide a little bit different perspective. Being a .90/super class raer there is a definite need for them here. As much as you all HATE throttle stop racing in this world MPH is king pretty much. Thus the need for these types of RELIABLE decent power strokers. Reliability and repeatability are the keys here. I have a 1050+hp BB Mopar that we rarely have to do anything to. I have not even set the lash this year, just checked it. Chenge the oil occasionally and throw in a set of plugs each year along with a set of valvesprings for good measure. One of my BIG hesitations with the Predator deal is this concern. While slower MPH can and do win here if you look hard you will see the big MPH cars seem to have an advantage, whether perceived or real it is there.

Just my

I guess my point here if there was alternative B1 (bore centerline valve reliefs) Piston readily available, other head MFG's could develop a head with the superior B1/W8 type Valve arrangement that wouldn't cost much more than the present offererings. If they assumed anybody buying that head was building a stroker, (How many people build stock 3.75" stoke 440 motors out their Keleno, MP or World blocks after all ?), it seems like this wouldn't be hard to do.

As for the B1 header, yes it is an added expense, but maybe Koffel could run a test set of EZ-B1's (sorry indy ) that have a conventionally sized (but still very good) exhaust port.

People say, well it's not gonna happen....and maybe not...but now Edelbrock is coming out with a Victor small block head that has a 2.15" intake valve....so that's not gonna just bolt on to most existing shortblocks without a piston swap (or some serious flycutting mods and maybe upsetting the bobweight/balance)either

What if Koffell, Indy, Eddie or whoever gave Us a BBM head which combined max wedge ports (standard intakes will fit ) BUT also gave us a W / B1 style valve arrangement that opened on the bore center and a more favorable for flow Valve angle?

Woudl not just be the port size. The heads are wider and taller so the headers would be moved a great deal and need to be B1 specific. Having said that I have seen fenderwell headers used on an A body

OK Wize,
When I build my next motor, it will have a KB aluminum block and B1 heads (original or MC?). I might stay small CID to use my existing Callies 4.250" crank, so 4.500" bore would be 540-541 CID.

But I need a better car to put that thing in! So it isn't going to happen in the next couple years. Maybe 2017... unless somebody buys mine sooner.

I keep changing my mind, either going back to 10.00 ET or bigger motor and lighter car... LOL

I have a set of 2.25 headers that are for a b1 in a early b body that have one tube out the fender well similar to set of pro parts headers. These were custom built and on a RB b1.

Jim I vote for lighter and bigger..Same boat I am in. Porker of a car with a tiny motor.

I will wade into this one with the risk of stirring the pot a little more.The direction you take really depends on where you want to go and how much money you would like to spend. The rough list below is in order of increasing cost. Of course there will be outliers or combos that make more or less than these rough figures. This is purely a general guide from my perspective.

550-650 Edelbrocks
650-750 SR's or B1BS
700-800 440-1
800-900 572-13
850-950 B1 original
850-1000 B1-MC
950-1150 Predator


The points I am making here is that there is potentially alot of overlap between the engines built with the different heads. But there are some good choices available depending on what power level you are targeting. However if you are interested in a competitive top sportsman combination there really is no viable alternative at this time if you want to qualify in the top half of the field and run consistent. The 99 makes some good hp and while suitable for comp not so useful for a T/S deal with a peaky powerband.
Naturally aspirated if you want big power time to give up brand loyalty and move on to many good higher output alternatives.
Flame away !

You had a couple of options for B1 heads. B1BS and B1 originals. I wonder how well a BS head works when done all out? They are not expensive. The originals were made for racing, not street car and small et numbers. That's why we were offerd 2 back in the day.

I pulled my engine out of my race car , installed the B1 and got to use the same Headers. They even fit better. (tube chassis) Serious racer will go the extra length to have the headers made, or make them their selves. Koffel's has the 2 3/8 flanges already. You can get by with smaller. By the way, Koffel's keeps pistons in stock.

I really have never bought a shelf piston for racing. They were always needing deeper pockets for a better cam choice. Everything has it's limits. You ever run a 440 source kit? They advertised notches up to around 700 lift. Zero deck and you fly cut. Most are around 12 in the hole.

MR P has a set of kick azz pistons forsale for the MC B1's at a fantastic price if someone is going that route. And can be used on an original

Speculation is a Mopar guys worst enemy

For me its simple......price. I guess I am poor next to some of the guys on here. I sometimes wonder how so many people have the money they do to spend on the hot rod ? I wish I had more but alot of people like me have to live within our means. Thats why I went with EZ heads as I wanted to stay with stock rockers and stock exh port location. I know I am giving up hp but its a budget I can afford and I feel the EZ's are better then the Eddy RPM's and any iron head. Course my 63 is basically a street car that I love to race when I can afford too and I new mid to high 10's on pump was all I could afford. Ron