Re: B1's - Why not more popular for Big strokers??
[Re: mopartoby]
#1350221
12/13/12 04:12 AM
12/13/12 04:12 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,933 Finalnd, Perkele
jyrki
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,933
Finalnd, Perkele
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I have mainly tried them in pump gas engines around 500 cu in, and in those cases they haven't worked very well. They have huge ports compared to teh flow, which means low velocity. The ones I built did not make enormous power and were a bit shy on tq too. Even if they flow better than some others, I propably wouldn't use them except in all out engines. Different story with more cubes, I guess. And will find out, there is a set that made 780 hp on a 500 going on a 604 short block. We'll see....
Plynouth VIP '67 TT IC EFI
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Re: B1's - Why not more popular for Big strokers??
[Re: go green]
#1350222
12/13/12 10:54 AM
12/13/12 10:54 AM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 341 Highland beach Fl
poisondart2
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 341
Highland beach Fl
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Quote:
20 plus year old heads . If you have to ask then you are stuck in a time warp feeding the dated zombie Mopar hoard. I find it way more offencive that we don't have any more heads to chose from in the past 10 years . The B1 heads should be parked right next to the MC hammer pants.
Now that's a quote I will not forget soon! and sooo True! I want a MC Hammer fire suit to wear at the track,would be very comfortable instead of the skinny jean suit I have now. Time warp dated Zombie Mopar Hoard--Great name for on the side of a trailer. thanks for the idea's
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Re: B1's - Why not more popular for Big strokers??
[Re: mopartoby]
#1350223
12/13/12 11:07 AM
12/13/12 11:07 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,590 Indy
joshking440
Lunch is on me!
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Lunch is on me!
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,590
Indy
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Quote:
You're almost right, they are a bit old school but they work very well!! And your predators work even better. But no way i'll fork out that kinda loot for that little gain over the b1's.
Now wait a second...
when you use the term "little gains" can you qualify that for me.
Im saying that max effort B1 Heads are great pieces, but the cost difference between them and Predators are not that much different and a predator can make substantially more power....
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Re: B1's - Why not more popular for Big strokers??
[Re: bigtimeauto]
#1350225
12/13/12 12:14 PM
12/13/12 12:14 PM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 577 Arkansas
Adrielp
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 577
Arkansas
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Hello guys, I'm a graduating Mechanical Engineer(2days away) and this thread makes me wonder if I will make any money whatsoever in finishing a BBM canted valve cylinder head project I'm working on lol. Luckily, I'm passionate and driven to succeed so as long as things proof out, I will have them machined by the end of next year hopefully. Its a slow process when your doing it essentially by yourself.
My question is what are people typically doing with these big stroker motors? That could be half of the problem right there.
If most of these builds are being used in bracket racing, there's no need to go all out unless your trying to run Top Sportsman Naturally Aspirated. I know in my region, there are barely any Mopars running faster than 9.20's so the big strokers aren't really needed for that. Also, when I think of the faster cars, they either have Sonny's for power, a BBC, use a power adder, top of the line SB's, or use hemi99 power. In general, most mopar guys just run the brackets and are between 6.00-6.50 in the 1/8th mile. Now that I think about, there is one car at our local track that has a B1 motor and runs 5.20's. Other than that, I don't see many around my way or at local events elsewhere.
Adriel Paradise Substation Design Engineer III
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Re: B1's - Why not more popular for Big strokers??
[Re: go green]
#1350228
12/13/12 01:14 PM
12/13/12 01:14 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
20 plus year old heads . If you have to ask then you are stuck in a time warp feeding the dated zombie Mopar hoard. I find it way more offencive that we don't have any more heads to chose from in the past 10 years . The B1 heads should be parked right next to the MC hammer pants.
That statement really nails it I do a few SBC's every year for customers and EVERY time we build one we research the head choices--there are so many new ones each year! The options are astonishing. Wasn't the B1 an abanoned Chrysler deal? Wasn't the -1 Indy made from the leftover ( though updated) casting box from Zeeker? Indy Small Block aluminum head same deal from another maker that went bust? The Edelbrock was the only original from the ground up new head. Source just a copy of that. Oh well...we can make enough power with those to split stock blocks, guess that is enough. Oooh! Pistons have gone through the roof in last few months--even the shelf stock plain Janes--SRP, Protrues,even the Icon--all supposed to be cheaper than the flagship brands--wowy zowy!!!Pistons are CRAZY priced now! Near $400 for CAST KB's is just a JOKE as well!!!!!!
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Re: B1's - Why not more popular for Big strokers??
[Re: dannysbee]
#1350229
12/13/12 01:27 PM
12/13/12 01:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,016 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,016
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Quote:
I think it is a double whammy. The custom pistons along with the custom headers put the b1's out of most people's comfort zone. Someone tool up a 2.25 header that will work on an A B or E body and I bet you would see many more. Probably some of the best money koffel's could spend would be to get a shelf header and pistons. The b1 has had it's day as the cutting edge race head but as a big inch street and strip or fast bracket alternative it could be a whole new horizon. I believe it would be just a matter of making the needed parts readily available.
Well put. And an offering of a slightly smaller port version capable of being ported to the needs of different engine sizes would go a long way to making them sale-able. 3 cnc versions, small, medium and huge. Think about it- a B1-PSO head with smaller ports but the meat in the heads to go as big as the basic head will allow. This would wind up being similar to a Brewer head, which worked like gangbusters for an inline head, but the market wasn't strong enough to make a go of it. Brewer heads were a match (or better) for B1Mc heads, yet made power 500 rpm below what the Mcs did. An old adage is "a wedge head is only as good as the length of its' intake valve" The Brewers are a great example. seems to me the basic B1 casting could be upgraded similarly. On top of that, make the valve train and mounting points in such a way as to accommodate different spring installed heights and rocker ratios. OK, the Christmas wish list is complete!
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: B1's - Why not more popular for Big strokers??
[Re: gregsdart]
#1350231
12/13/12 02:35 PM
12/13/12 02:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,382 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,382
Las Vegas
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Well I am sure I will get beat over the head with this one but here goes. I am still very much on the fence about the Predator deal. They show great potential for sure as the best available head other than the 99 stuff. However everyone I know personally that has one has had some reliability issues with them. Three of those came from big name Mopar shops. I have a set on the shelf and we have not built anything with them yet. Not so much due to others reliability issues, although that is certainly a concern but more I dont have a car to put one in yet. I also understand there are a number of them out there running really hard. For me my current B1MC runs fine and is plenty for the car I have. we certainly have some left on the table with my current car as far as all out racing is concerned. If I ever get a light car we will look much harder at the Predator deal. As for th B1 points. Do yo uguys really think a shelf piston and headers will help?? I agree with the marketing plan that has not been the strongest and dont see that changing. These heads have been around OVER 20 years and they still are not very plentiful. So what does one think a set of B1 shelf headers will run ya?? My guess is TTI prices or better due to lack of sales. So why bother for a set of headers that will at best be a compromise. For a few hundred more you can get a much better performing piece that actually fits whatever chassis it is in. Not something you have to dent, move, curse or disassemble most of the car to install. As for the need for bigger strokers. I will provide a little bit different perspective. Being a .90/super class raer there is a definite need for them here. As much as you all HATE throttle stop racing in this world MPH is king pretty much. Thus the need for these types of RELIABLE decent power strokers. Reliability and repeatability are the keys here. I have a 1050+hp BB Mopar that we rarely have to do anything to. I have not even set the lash this year, just checked it. Chenge the oil occasionally and throw in a set of plugs each year along with a set of valvesprings for good measure. One of my BIG hesitations with the Predator deal is this concern. While slower MPH can and do win here if you look hard you will see the big MPH cars seem to have an advantage, whether perceived or real it is there. Just my
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: B1's - Why not more popular for Big strokers??
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#1350232
12/13/12 03:06 PM
12/13/12 03:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,888 Weddington, N.C.
Streetwize
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,888
Weddington, N.C.
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I guess my point here if there was alternative B1 (bore centerline valve reliefs) Piston readily available, other head MFG's could develop a head with the superior B1/W8 type Valve arrangement that wouldn't cost much more than the present offererings. If they assumed anybody buying that head was building a stroker, (How many people build stock 3.75" stoke 440 motors out their Keleno, MP or World blocks after all ?), it seems like this wouldn't be hard to do. As for the B1 header, yes it is an added expense, but maybe Koffel could run a test set of EZ-B1's (sorry indy ) that have a conventionally sized (but still very good) exhaust port. People say, well it's not gonna happen....and maybe not...but now Edelbrock is coming out with a Victor small block head that has a 2.15" intake valve....so that's not gonna just bolt on to most existing shortblocks without a piston swap (or some serious flycutting mods and maybe upsetting the bobweight/balance)either What if Koffell, Indy, Eddie or whoever gave Us a BBM head which combined max wedge ports (standard intakes will fit ) BUT also gave us a W / B1 style valve arrangement that opened on the bore center and a more favorable for flow Valve angle?
Last edited by Streetwize; 12/13/12 03:07 PM.
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Re: B1's - Why not more popular for Big strokers??
[Re: Streetwize]
#1350234
12/13/12 03:23 PM
12/13/12 03:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,930 NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,930
NC
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OK Wize, When I build my next motor, it will have a KB aluminum block and B1 heads (original or MC?). I might stay small CID to use my existing Callies 4.250" crank, so 4.500" bore would be 540-541 CID. But I need a better car to put that thing in! So it isn't going to happen in the next couple years. Maybe 2017... unless somebody buys mine sooner. I keep changing my mind, either going back to 10.00 ET or bigger motor and lighter car... LOL
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Re: B1's - Why not more popular for Big strokers??
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#1350235
12/13/12 03:36 PM
12/13/12 03:36 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160 Texas
dannysbee
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
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I have a set of 2.25 headers that are for a b1 in a early b body that have one tube out the fender well similar to set of pro parts headers. These were custom built and on a RB b1.
Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
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Re: B1's - Why not more popular for Big strokers??
[Re: 440Jim]
#1350236
12/13/12 03:44 PM
12/13/12 03:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,382 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,382
Las Vegas
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Jim I vote for lighter and bigger..Same boat I am in. Porker of a car with a tiny motor.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: B1's - Why not more popular for Big strokers??
[Re: Streetwize]
#1350237
12/13/12 04:02 PM
12/13/12 04:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 698 Alberta Canada
Edge
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 698
Alberta Canada
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I will wade into this one with the risk of stirring the pot a little more.The direction you take really depends on where you want to go and how much money you would like to spend. The rough list below is in order of increasing cost. Of course there will be outliers or combos that make more or less than these rough figures. This is purely a general guide from my perspective.
550-650 Edelbrocks 650-750 SR's or B1BS 700-800 440-1 800-900 572-13 850-950 B1 original 850-1000 B1-MC 950-1150 Predator
The points I am making here is that there is potentially alot of overlap between the engines built with the different heads. But there are some good choices available depending on what power level you are targeting. However if you are interested in a competitive top sportsman combination there really is no viable alternative at this time if you want to qualify in the top half of the field and run consistent. The 99 makes some good hp and while suitable for comp not so useful for a T/S deal with a peaky powerband. Naturally aspirated if you want big power time to give up brand loyalty and move on to many good higher output alternatives. Flame away !
76 Duster
work in progress
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Re: B1's - Why not more popular for Big strokers??
[Re: Mopar-Al]
#1350240
12/13/12 04:19 PM
12/13/12 04:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421 Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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For me its simple......price. I guess I am poor next to some of the guys on here. I sometimes wonder how so many people have the money they do to spend on the hot rod ? I wish I had more but alot of people like me have to live within our means. Thats why I went with EZ heads as I wanted to stay with stock rockers and stock exh port location. I know I am giving up hp but its a budget I can afford and I feel the EZ's are better then the Eddy RPM's and any iron head. Course my 63 is basically a street car that I love to race when I can afford too and I new mid to high 10's on pump was all I could afford. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 12/13/12 04:20 PM.
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