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Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!!
[Re: mopower440]
#1232329
05/13/12 09:09 PM
05/13/12 09:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,490
smyrna,tn
draginmopars
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,490
smyrna,tn
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Quote:
weird!!! So i put a jumper from pos battery to pos on coil, then a jumper from neg battery to coil bracket bolt, pulled number one plug wire off and stuck a spare plug in it and layed it on the block, turned key to run and jumped the 2 lugs on the fenderwell relay to turn it over, yes its sparking, so reconected number one plug wire and crank and crank, still nothing, wont even try to hit..so for the heck of it, i dug a spare coil off the shelf and hooked it up, again disconnected number one wire and stuck spare plug in to verify spark and jumped the lugs on the fenderwell, yup, it sparked but this time the engine tried to fire up!! Oh boy, i hooked number one plug wire back up and jumped in the car and cranked and it hit again, jumped out and gave it a shot of carb cleaner and it started and died, gave her another shot of carb cleaner and cranked and she started up and running good! Dont really understand why, both coils seemed to fire the plug the same but the other one wouldnt start the car..but shes running awesome now! There is 5.8 volts at the coil with the car idling.. 
if you want to OHMS the coils,
heres some specs.
0.75 - 0.81 (+ to -) posts
10,000 - 11,000 post to coil terminal
Ha-Ha Racin
Havin Fun 101
Howard
68 "Cummins" Satellite
70 W-2 449 "More Door" Dart
70 340 Dart Swinger, 4spd
71 360 Dart Swinger
72 540/ 518 Dart Swinger
73 airwolf 446/a-500 Cuda
73 "Cummins" Crew cab-car hauler
84 446 Dodge Rampage (tube chassis)
92 CTD 11' flat bed
92 CTD club cab
07 Dodge Caliber
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Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!!
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#1232330
05/13/12 09:20 PM
05/13/12 09:20 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,942
WI
Dcuda69
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,942
WI
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Quote:
Quote:
plug brand is supersition.
No, no it's not. There are some plugs that are just made better than others.This is something i have learned in over 30 years in the trade 
Gus 
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Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!!
[Re: Ronnman]
#1232331
05/13/12 10:41 PM
05/13/12 10:41 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,261
ILL
mark7171
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,261
ILL
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Nice one. Give those nerves a rest.
Arguing with me is not getting this guys car on the road. I have no brand loyalty until somebody pays me to use there product. A champion is as good as a autolite or NKG. Quit paying the parts guy $5/hr to throw the sparkplug cartons at the shelf. Give him some real money to spend on drink or women.
Only 18 degrees total at idle my start for you, but you will have to evacuate the garage in seconds or face extinction. Give it some time to burn the fuel. To the timed port like it was designed...Was it designed for a 1/2 inch of lift?
4 gear you are a good wrench many times I read your posts and realize you are no fool.
Last edited by mark7171; 05/13/12 10:45 PM.
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Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!!
[Re: mark7171]
#1232332
05/14/12 09:15 PM
05/14/12 09:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
mopower440
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
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Quote:
18 at crank wont run well, may not light with that psi ,not without a vacuum pod supply another 10-12.
30 mechanically force will not crank and need a starter retard.
Usually.
My oppinion.
ok help me understand why hooking up the vacuum advance will help in starting..ok, It doesnt like much more than 16 degrees initial timing because it cranks real slow when hot, so if i hooked up the vacuum advance, its going to advance it even more so it would crank even slower or not crank at all, so why would i hook it up? Whats the difference in setting the initial to 30 BTC and it not wanting to turn over hot and setting it to 16 initial and using 14 vacuum which still makes it 30..? Not being smart, just dont understand and want to learn..
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Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!!
[Re: VL21]
#1232334
05/14/12 10:20 PM
05/14/12 10:20 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
mopower440
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,863
middle Tennessee
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so how can it aid in starting easier then? You were saying that my initial of 18 isnt good enough to get her started easy and i needed to hook the vacuum advance up to get it to start easier?
Last edited by mopower440; 05/14/12 10:30 PM.
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Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!!
[Re: mopower440]
#1232335
05/14/12 11:26 PM
05/14/12 11:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,357
central Florida
VL21
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,357
central Florida
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You have 3 kinds of timing events,
1. Initial, what the markers at the crank say
2. Mechanical, what happens after things start turning, this is is the mechanical advance mechanism in the distributor
3. Vacuum, the canister. Once the engine is running, hopefully making some vacuum, this will give the motor the final dose of advance. Some advance cans can be adjusted by using a allen wrench through the nipple where the vac hose goes on.
If you use a ported vacuum source, it will only get the vacuum signal when the throttle blades reach a certain point.
If using manifold vacuum, the distributor will see full vacuum advance basically all the time.
You cannot run excessive amounts of initial, or the starter is going to have a hard time cranking it over, the electrical load among other things will cause hard start.
Not knowing your engine, I would try 10-14 initial, check the mechanical, and this is where some degree of magic comes in, with springs and weights,usually try to get it in by 3000, depends on gears,trans,weight, eventually you will get it, and the vacuum all in total I am only guessing you will want to shoot for 36-40.
Mash the pedal, the vacuum drops out.
Vacuum advance will help gas mileage, mechanical has to be limited to avoid "knock", pre-ignition.
Hope this makes some sense to you.
Another thing, about the surging thing, some MP distributors had a problem with the indexing of the reluctor wheel, and I think under vacuum it played hell with timing.
It takes gasoline to interest me.
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Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!!
[Re: VL21]
#1232337
05/15/12 12:57 AM
05/15/12 12:57 AM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,261
ILL
mark7171
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,261
ILL
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Let me eplain the best i can. First a engine requires a curve for WOT and a curve for cruise and idle. A new camaro has 1/2 of lift stock an will have about 40 degrees advance at idle for clean complete burn. Set the old mopar to idle mechanical to 18 and you find after a 45min trip it wont crank leaving the parking lot. Let alone 20+ . Unless you have a 1000cca battery, large gauge short starter wires, etc. Even then a hi TQ starter is needed. The way to copy the curve is to crank at 16 add 12-14 degrees of vacuum advance from manifold that kicks on at the first sputter of lighting. presto 30 degrees clean nice easy cranking , complete idle burn. This drops away instantly for Wide open throttle power sprints. Your mechanical 16+20 alone or whatever, is for WOT operation, more is needed for part throttle smooth power transition and driveability. Provided from said vacuum pod. Try it, you will like it. There are ways of working without but it is best way in my oppinion.
Good luck,Hope all is clear. For more theory contact don at 4secondsflat.com. Then he will school you.
I do not wish to challenge anybody in pissing contest. Just help you. You should not spend anymore plugs, enough. Be the Jedi knight fix your car enjoy the force of a mopar big block. PEACE.
Last edited by mark7171; 05/15/12 01:13 AM.
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Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!!
[Re: mopower440]
#1232338
05/16/12 09:29 PM
05/16/12 09:29 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862
Iowa State fan
kilroy
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862
Iowa State fan
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Im not here to argue whether or not you need to hook the vacuum advance up or not. I think your timing choice should work fine, youll get it figure out the optimum for you once you figure this coil fo-pa out.
I really think you have a bad hook up at the coil or somewhere to the coil.
try this coil test like someone was explaining it simple and quick.
Your motor should at least try to fire even if the damn thing was retard, it would just run very sour with bad timing numbers. I know you had spark to the coil when you were testing but something was amiss with the coil hook up.
Last edited by kilroy; 05/16/12 10:38 PM.
1973 Charger, former SE, former auto
I'm not trying to be difficult, it comes naturally....
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Re: nerves shot part 2, help guys!!
[Re: kilroy]
#1232339
05/16/12 10:28 PM
05/16/12 10:28 PM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862
Iowa State fan
kilroy
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 862
Iowa State fan
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I really think you are fighting a really low voltage at the coil also. you should have at least 7 volts at the coil with a ballast and closer to 9. During start/crank cycle you should also see full voltage, or near 12volts when cranking the motor over, then when you let off the start it should be near 7-9 with key on. When you had it jumped to battery and it tried to start, more than the coil, it was probably because it was seeing enough voltage to light; which leads me back to the coil being wired right or wrong.
1973 Charger, former SE, former auto
I'm not trying to be difficult, it comes naturally....
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